Is it safe?

[Sergio]

I don't know, I think you guys are coming down pretty hard on a person we know nothing about. We are all entitled to our opinion and hers happens to be a VERY popular one ALL over the world. That said, I find it a very normal point to make when meeting people from outside the US. She has already clarified that it's not the USA but the Bush administration that she is apologizing for and let me tell you there are very many INTELLIGENT people who have done the same thing! I will even go as far as saying that a statement like hers only gives me more respect for Americans... not less! So welcome! Someone mentioned that her attitude could get her into trouble... I disagree. Just don't go voicing your opinions about Indonesian politics and you'll be fine.

edit: spelling

 

[UluwatuWaves]

I know this is somewhat off the topic of this thred and the direction that it has gone but why are so many people paranoid about travelling to Bali. Is it safe? What kind of question is that? Safe compared to where; washington dc, LA, Detroit, Atlanta, or some rural town in Australia or Thailand. You have higher chances of getting killed travelling in and walking around washington DC than you have in Bali. It is the middle of July and there have already been 20+ murders here in Washington so far this month. Some of you may have heard of the British Expat who was murdered recently in Georgetown. He was walking home with his girlfriend in supposedly safe and toney Georgetown when he was mugged and had his throat slit by some robbers while he was trying to protect his girlfriend who fortunately made it out alive. So to answer your question about whether Bali is safe. i would have to say, safe as safe can get. This is coming from someone who lives and works in one of the most deadliest cities in the world and with the highest murder rate on and off year after year. Where is that you ask, well, the nations capital, washington DC. This is a fact and I am not just rambling. So if you have any preconceived notions of what is safe and not then come out here to Washington and take a cab into south east DC in the middle of the night and I guarantee after you leave you will say, Bali is the safest place in the world. In my experiences in bali and in DC, there is no comparison, well maybe there is. Bali is like a small labrador puppy and washington dc is like confronting an enraged dobberman in the middle of a dark alley. Hope someone found this interesting! Peace in the middle east!

 

[Sergio]

Good point UluwatuWaves. However, it's still an understandable question for those who have never been to Bali. We've been to Bali but to someone that only knows Indonesia and Bali from the news, lets face it, it's not a silly question or the US would not have travel warnings for Indonesia and of course we all know she is not alone to wonder if Bali is safe... I don't think Bali tourism is back to where it used to be before the Bali bombings.

 

[Jim Thorpe]

Sergio,
I have watched on this board the support that Bali receives from the people living there. Remember when the crazy poster came on and just said bad things about Bali? Well, even though some of those things were true, no one here was going to let them say those things without getting an ear full. Bali has it's problems but it is YOUR Bali, good and bad, and no one not living there was going to come on the forum just to bad mouth it....Well, many americans feel the same way. But it covers even more than that. What she said, in my opinion, didn't need to be said. Do you go to other forums and in the first few sentences say you are embarrassed by YOUR country or President? I don't and I don't think many here do either. I didn't when Clinton was in charge and I don't do it with Bush. It also falls under the other reason of "keeping it in the family." She can say this all she wants to an american audience but to say it to a non-american audience smacks of selling out your country for a little bit of favor here. It would be like me meeting you for the first time and over hearing my brother say to you " Nice to meet you, please don't judge me by my poorly clothed, uneducated family, I am much better than them." I MAY be poorly clothed and uneducated, he just shouldn't have said that about his family, in front of me.
I hope this makes sense. It doesn't matter whether she is intelligent, correct or full of crap. It just wasn't the right thing to say. I think this was also shown by the reaction of both right leaning and left leaning americans on the forum.

But I do hope she has a good time in Bali.

 

[ChadM]

Interesting point, Jim. I'm not sure if I agree 100% with the idea of Americans "selling out" their country for a glimmer of favor abroad, but I really do think that's a fascinating take on things, and there's likely a bit of truth in it in some, if not all, cases. For my part, I can honestly say that I'm completely ashamed of the current administration and government of my country right now, and I don't say this to curry any favor with non-Americans. Bush and his cronies are a complete embarassment, and their lamentable comments and actions have likely made it more dangerous for Americans living or traveling abroad, and I feel no compunction whatsoever in distancing myself from our current government's shockingly bad foreign policy and utter lack of diplomacy.

However, as you mentioned, this wouldn't be the leading comment I made in a forum or to an individual. I'm of the mindset that I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be an American. I was simply born here... it's nothing I accomplished, so it's nothing I can really take "pride" in. That, to me, would be akin to being proud of being born male. As such, I don't really engage in nationalistic or political discussion unless prompted (or unless I'm writing on my blog). I do, however, like to remind people outside of the U.S. that 49% of the population here didn't vote for Bush, and of the 51% that did, about a third of those now apparently regret it, if polls are to be believed.

While I certainly think that Bush is the worst president the U.S. has seen in my lifetime, it's not really a conversation starter for me when I travel abroad. Curiously enough, though, when I have gotten to the point where I discuss this with Indonesians, none I've met have said anything favorable about the current U.S. president.

UluwatuWaves, I seriously doubt Washington, D.C. has had 20 murders in two weeks' time. You said "so far this month" and I'm presuming you meant "so far this year." Regardless, I would definitely feel much, MUCH safer and more comfortable walking around at night anywhere in Bali than in some parts of D.C. On my most recent visit to Bali a few weeks ago, I was for the first time offered drugs and/or women while walking along the streets in Kuta at night. That was certainly a bit dodgy (and even somewhat surprising), but again -- I never felt unsafe at all.

 

[Roy]

I know this is somewhat off the topic of this thred and the direction that it has gone but why are so many people paranoid about travelling to Bali. Is it safe? What kind of question is that?

Uluwatu, Om Santi, Santi, Santi Om. Well done, and wonderously written.

 

[Sergio]

Hi Jim,

I can't say that I see any similarities in apologizing for the Bush administration and apologizing for ones family. The Bush administration has single handedly done more damage to the US image across the world than any other administration. The highly controversial actions of the Bush administration since 9/11 has been and still is making headlines world wide. After 9/11, so many first encounters with Muslim people started of with an apologizing for something they did obviously not agree with... now why would this girls apology be any different? She obviously feels terrible about what the Bush administration has done in the middle east and since she is addressing what she might see as a majority Islamic country I find it very normal to apologize right of the bat... many Americans do.

Don't get me wrong, I have been very fortunate to have lived some of my best years in the US and one of the best things about the great US of A is to be able to speak freely and openly disagree with the President, that said I don't think her remarks make her any less patriotic then those singing Bush's praises.

Anyway, just though I'd stir the pot a little... made for a good thread though eh?

Peace...

 

[Roy]

Yup, and you can almost envision Bush Jr. massaging Israel’s ass. Nothing better for Bush and Cheney than the middle east going haywire. Halberton stock goes up, and oil hits new highs. Both Bush and Cheney are “singing in the rain” that is for sure.

Watch out when and if Syria steps in. At that time Bush’s lack of diplomatic efforts with Israel will be painfully evident. As President of the United States, George Walker Bush Junior is the sorriest ass to plant himself in the oval office.

 

[UluwatuWaves]

Yes I am accurate in saying that 20 murders have happened so far this month in DC. I heard it on Fox News and every summertime the crime picks up in DC. There are a lot of poor people in the city and huge serious drug problems in DC. That British expat was only 27 yrs old and for a crime like that to happen in georgetown is unheard of because it is a very expensive place to live and there are like less than 1% black population living there. This guy made a speech and the local community was shocked because something lke this hasnt happened in G'town since the Exorcist visited! Bush is bush; it tastes good at first, but then you have to go down all the time to please her and it just ain't like the first time. Only 2+ years left in office, and all we can do is just pray that we dont get another unqualified, incompetent Texan in the white house who doesn't want to send his USA beef to Russia and let them in the WTO.

 

[Jim Thorpe]

Hi all,

Interesting conversation and happily one that we can discuss pleasantly! I am not about to tackle the Bush is evil/great debate.

ChadM, I think you SHOULD take pride in being an american as the U.S. has done some great things in the world. i.e. I was proud of the tsunami relief even when the U.N. took credit for it. You have the chance to continue those great things. Just as your dad probably talked to you about the value of your name. You inherit it and try to keep it well respected. Bush may not be your hero but in another two years you can hope that you can get someone who is....

Regarding world opinion....Maybe we need to start another thread on what is the U.S.'s role in the world and who the government should listen too. Who decides that? Democracies? There are only 88 of those in the world. Should we listen to China when they continue to oppress millions? Should we listen to Russia on appropriate responses to terrorism when they have attempted to wipe out Chechnya? Saudi Arabia? They are supporting most of these groups Pahh! France? They undermine U.N. sanctions all the time. The president of Rwanda accused France of direct responsiblity in the slaughter of 800,000 people. Do they have the moral authority to tell us what is right or wrong? I don't have the answers to any of this as I suspect neither do any of us but perhaps it may make people open their minds, including mine, to their currently held positions. Who knows?

 

[UluwatuWaves]

ChadM, why would I lie about something so serious. This Brit Expat got killed for protecting his girlfriend who safely ran away unharmed while Mr. Senitt got his throat slashed for a few lousy dollars and a credit card that the robbers actually used after the event at a Wendy's restuarant in Maryland somewhere. I dont know if you have been to the nations capital or not. Yes, we are the murder capital on and off every couple of years. I think this year Miami took first place though. So yeah to answer your question, it is a fact and not open for debate unless you have a problem believing the truth. Bali is safe, just not if you happen to be a drug smuggler or a terrorist because they will hunt you down and possibly kill you. Did you hear about that American fugitive that was hiding in a hotel in denpasar and was apprehended by the FBI and with help from the local authorities. It is a good thing he was caught and didnt attack anyone in Bali before his apprehension. What about Schappele Corby, i feel so sorry for the young girl and the situation she has put herself in when that other australian beauty/model was released 3 months latter for poseesion of two ecstacy pills. Is that fair, i dont know? This girl is going to be rotting inside a jail for 20 years for something she claims she has no knowledge about. What i find hard to believe is that if Corby is truly innocent then she would be released eventually because of evidence. I mean the whole baggage handler story, was that made up or did it actually happen. was this poor girl set up? I surely hope not for her sanity and the rest of ours? I believe that she most likely tried to sneak this high quality pot into bali to turn a profit and was nicked and tried to play innocent because she thought that she was going to be able to get away with it. This is the case most of the time with drug traficcking. Was it planted in her bags by airport bag handlers in Australia, posibbly? But why would that conclude her innocence, maybe she was a drug mule like the hundreds who try to bring drugs into america daily. She could have known the baggage handlers were going to put it into her bags and then on the other hand she may have been completely innocent and was just randomly picked to have pot put in her body board bag like her and her family and bearly every Australian seems to believe. I believe the former. It is a sad story for this young girl and we can all hope that she gets at least a serious reduction in her 20 yr. sentence. The punishment should fit the crime in any legal system. Peace in the Middle East.

 

[ChadM]

ChadM, why would I lie about something so serious... it is a fact and not open for debate unless you have a problem believing the truth

Uluwatu, I certainly never stated nor implied that you were LYING about anything, so perhaps you could relax a bit. I just thought that 20 murders in one city in a two-week span of time was rather a lot and that you might have mistakenly typed "month" instead of "year." I'd have thought something like 3 people being murdered every 2 days would have made the news, but apparently not. Yes, I've been to D.C. a couple of times. Clearly, I was fortunate to make it out of there alive, I guess.

The current state of things in the world arena are a bit unnerving, eh, Roy? Iraq on the precipice of civil war, Iran rattling its sabers more and more every day, North Korea shooting off missiles weekly, and now this explosive outbreak of violence and fighting between Israel and Lebanon. What's so pathetic, in my opinion, is that the vast majority of all this death and misery is rooted in religion, and that's something I will just never understand. Bush is completely in over his head, and if it was never evident before (and to most thinking people, it's been painfully obvious), I agree with you, Roy -- this crisis in the Middle East will expose Bush for the incompentent fraud he is.

Jim, I definitely appreciate and respect your opinion, but I'm not sure if I personally share it. I don't take pride in things that I have nothing to do with. I think America is, on the whole, a very good country in which to live, and I'm certainly happy to have the opportunities that being American affords me, but that's about where it begins and ends with me. I don't necessarily feel a great swell of pride for just having been born here. You're absolutely right that America has done some great things, and I believe much of the world looks to the U.S. for leadership, which is why the current adminstration is so stupendously embarrassing. Like Sergio said, the Bush administration has done a grave disservice to the name and reputation of the United States in the global community, and it will doubtlessly take us a very long time to rectify the fallout from Bush's short-sighted, brainless, ignorant "cowboy diplomacy."

 

[UluwatuWaves]

ChadM, No worries mate... You live in Denver? What part? I love colorado it is such a beautiful state. Durango, telluride, boulder, areall great areas in the state. Have you been to the huge hot springs in in alamosa springs in the SW of the state? I belive it is off rt. 160. Yes the murder rate does seem high doesnt it. In DC the murder rate is quite hight per capitia if you were to compare it to lets say LA or some other mammoth city. But see this is not even including the surrounding areas of maryland and virginia, this is just within the city lines. I have done work for the state department so i am all to familiar about many things that the average civilian doesn't have a chance to know just from reading the paper or hearing the news. The situation in the middle east particularly Israel, Lebanon, and Syria is very delicate. Syria needs to take a stance and do something about Hezbolah or things may get much worse than the are now. The syrian state wont last too much longer if hezbollah keeps fucking around. Israel wont back down for anyone especially a bunch of radicals that want to assert themselves the way they do.

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Dear Yanks,

please remember this is a forum about Bali.....

thanks

Bert

 

[UluwatuWaves]

Re: RE: Is it safe?

Dear Yanks,

please remember this is a forum about Bali.....

thanks

Bert

Dear Bert,

Thanks for the reminder... Live long and prosper...