Indonesia, Drugs and Justice
- Thread starter InAdelaide
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My two sixpence for what it worth on drugs and Jalis
DRUGS: The old fashioned attitude of stiff penalties and banning just doesn’t work. The Americans gave us a great example during the prohibition years. If you’re worried about your kids then I suggest start bringing them up in a manner that they know about the dangers of drugs just like you do with telling about all the other dangers in life. Start with cigarettes, as that is most likely going to be their first temptation with legalized drugs of a highly addictive and dangerous nature. You can then move on to illegal drugs and tell them that the most dangerous thing about them is the fact that because they are illegal, then there is no control mechanisms in place, so you really don’t know what you are getting. In countries where alcohol is illegal you will find many people die due to the fact that it is illegal and therefore no control on what is put in it. India is a great example where many people die from drinking alcohol and even Indonesia has cases due to the lack of control of illegal brewers. People only die from heroin because it is illegal and when you buy it off the street you just don’t know what you are getting, therefore you always read of people dieing from an overdose. People don’t usually overdose on purpose.
JAILS:
In my opinion everyone deserves to be treated humanly, so putting them in a tin box, is unjust. Giving them the death penalty for smuggling drugs is inhumane and certainly doesn’t discourage drug smugglers, probably just makes them more careful.
Indonesian Jails v’s Australian ones. Well I guess the way Tracey describes the jails in Austraila they must have improved a lot from when I was living there. I can remember the prisoners in Fremantle jail rioting due to the outrageous conditions they had to live in, an example was during the hot summers temperature in their tiny cells would soar to over 50 degrees. I honestly think just the fact that you are locked up with your freedom taken away is harsh enough treatment for ordinary people. I honestly think the maximum prisons in Australia are still pretty horrible places to be put in and I’m pretty sure that goes for England and America too. In fact Anglo Saxon countries treat their prisoners on the whole very badly compared to other places like the Scandinavian countries.
Re Indonesian Jails, well I’ve heard they are ok if you have money and family to bring you in food etc.
DRUGS: The old fashioned attitude of stiff penalties and banning just doesn’t work. The Americans gave us a great example during the prohibition years. If you’re worried about your kids then I suggest start bringing them up in a manner that they know about the dangers of drugs just like you do with telling about all the other dangers in life. Start with cigarettes, as that is most likely going to be their first temptation with legalized drugs of a highly addictive and dangerous nature. You can then move on to illegal drugs and tell them that the most dangerous thing about them is the fact that because they are illegal, then there is no control mechanisms in place, so you really don’t know what you are getting. In countries where alcohol is illegal you will find many people die due to the fact that it is illegal and therefore no control on what is put in it. India is a great example where many people die from drinking alcohol and even Indonesia has cases due to the lack of control of illegal brewers. People only die from heroin because it is illegal and when you buy it off the street you just don’t know what you are getting, therefore you always read of people dieing from an overdose. People don’t usually overdose on purpose.
JAILS:
In my opinion everyone deserves to be treated humanly, so putting them in a tin box, is unjust. Giving them the death penalty for smuggling drugs is inhumane and certainly doesn’t discourage drug smugglers, probably just makes them more careful.
Indonesian Jails v’s Australian ones. Well I guess the way Tracey describes the jails in Austraila they must have improved a lot from when I was living there. I can remember the prisoners in Fremantle jail rioting due to the outrageous conditions they had to live in, an example was during the hot summers temperature in their tiny cells would soar to over 50 degrees. I honestly think just the fact that you are locked up with your freedom taken away is harsh enough treatment for ordinary people. I honestly think the maximum prisons in Australia are still pretty horrible places to be put in and I’m pretty sure that goes for England and America too. In fact Anglo Saxon countries treat their prisoners on the whole very badly compared to other places like the Scandinavian countries.
Re Indonesian Jails, well I’ve heard they are ok if you have money and family to bring you in food etc.
Well said Lou about the justice system and especially the ridiculous hype the Australian media always heaps on Indonesia.
I really get sick and tired of all the holier than thou crap that Australians write when criticising Indonesia. They should look at their own back yard first.
I really get sick and tired of all the holier than thou crap that Australians write when criticising Indonesia. They should look at their own back yard first.
Unfortunately the fact remains that the Indonesian justice system is very corrupt, through and through, from the police to the courts to the jails. I love Indonesia dearly but to say that it isn’t this way is to turn a blind eye on what is as clear as day and to ignore what is common knowledge to any Indonesian.
However in this case, because of all the foreign attention, I am sure these guys can expect text book Indonesian court proceedings and if convicted, jail conditions… certainly not the reality of what an Indonesian might expect.
I don’t know if capital punishment will come into play here but if it does the fact would be that it is according to Indonesian law and as such one that visits Indonesia should abide by it. Further more, whether or not capital punishment is a humane way of dealing with convicted criminals is for the Indonesian people to decide and not foreigners.
A jails purpose is (should be) to rehabilitate convicted criminals and not to bring upon
suffering, yet it is in our human nature to want criminals to suffer for their wrong doings (understandably so when it is personal). Poor treatment by guards and or other inmates will only turn miner offenders into a hard core ones. People adapt to their surroundings, treat them like dogs and they will act like dogs.
However in this case, because of all the foreign attention, I am sure these guys can expect text book Indonesian court proceedings and if convicted, jail conditions… certainly not the reality of what an Indonesian might expect.
I don’t know if capital punishment will come into play here but if it does the fact would be that it is according to Indonesian law and as such one that visits Indonesia should abide by it. Further more, whether or not capital punishment is a humane way of dealing with convicted criminals is for the Indonesian people to decide and not foreigners.
A jails purpose is (should be) to rehabilitate convicted criminals and not to bring upon
suffering, yet it is in our human nature to want criminals to suffer for their wrong doings (understandably so when it is personal). Poor treatment by guards and or other inmates will only turn miner offenders into a hard core ones. People adapt to their surroundings, treat them like dogs and they will act like dogs.
Lou,
No worries. I was a bit surprised that someone of your obvious intelligence would start to rely on ad hominen attacks rather than serious debate. I found some further information about McGeogh including letters written to the NYT asking as to why they didnt publish his work. This was of course from left leaning publications. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
I cant agree that Indonesian press never stirs up hysteria about Australia, Malaysia or Singapore for that matter. Not one up-manship but can you read Bahasa Indonesia? The grammedia group including Kompas is normally benign (and Tempo is excellent) but Republika amonst others was the paper that suggested that australians were sweeping indonesians in Australia after the bali bomb.
I also cant agree that Indonesians solely put Suharto to pasture. I think the recklessness, ignoarance and arrogance of the IMF had a big bearing on the Rupiah in those heady days of early '98.
To put this to rest, as I sense that you have, my criticising Indonesia's justice system is not criticising Indonesia in general. You have to admit Lou, forums would be boring if everyone agreed with you.
No worries. I was a bit surprised that someone of your obvious intelligence would start to rely on ad hominen attacks rather than serious debate. I found some further information about McGeogh including letters written to the NYT asking as to why they didnt publish his work. This was of course from left leaning publications. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
I cant agree that Indonesian press never stirs up hysteria about Australia, Malaysia or Singapore for that matter. Not one up-manship but can you read Bahasa Indonesia? The grammedia group including Kompas is normally benign (and Tempo is excellent) but Republika amonst others was the paper that suggested that australians were sweeping indonesians in Australia after the bali bomb.
I also cant agree that Indonesians solely put Suharto to pasture. I think the recklessness, ignoarance and arrogance of the IMF had a big bearing on the Rupiah in those heady days of early '98.
To put this to rest, as I sense that you have, my criticising Indonesia's justice system is not criticising Indonesia in general. You have to admit Lou, forums would be boring if everyone agreed with you.
Radson, I am going to leave this discussion to you and Lou. You both seem to have a rapport going, and while I am often a guest at the FCC (Foreign Correspondents Club), in both Hong Kong and Bangkok, I am not a journalist.
Odd though, as I noted, your last post was made at 4:10 AM Bali time…one hour ahead of Jakarta, which means you were posting at 3:10 AM. For me that time is snoring time, and it usually results in a pack of village dogs out front, hollowing their approval, or disapproval of my high C notes or whatever. For you, a touch of insomnia, or are you really posting from Jakarta? “Inquiring minds” want to know.
Odd though, as I noted, your last post was made at 4:10 AM Bali time…one hour ahead of Jakarta, which means you were posting at 3:10 AM. For me that time is snoring time, and it usually results in a pack of village dogs out front, hollowing their approval, or disapproval of my high C notes or whatever. For you, a touch of insomnia, or are you really posting from Jakarta? “Inquiring minds” want to know.
Yes he is.
Even I post at night sometimes, hope its not suspicious. :shock:
Radsons IP: 203.128.88.130
Lookup here:
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Even I post at night sometimes, hope its not suspicious. :shock:
Radsons IP: 203.128.88.130
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source: APNICYou have to admit Lou, forums would be boring if everyone agreed with you.
Absolutely Radson. Like waltzing with a blanc mange. I ended up being completely busy the last few days, largely as a consequence of the backlog accumulated during our debate. No problem with the Bahasa, I admire people who have studied it to the degree of being able to effectively read and write as well as speak. My wife has done that but not me. Actually she still hasn't forgiven me for living in her home country for 17 years and not learning her language properly.
Anyway it's good to finish on a cordial note and hope to see you here regularly. So "that's it" from me until next we find something to disagree about. :wink:
gidday, i once posted (12 months ago) a question about drugs in bali and from memory i did state the apparent overkill of hash around the kuta square area. my point at the time was shit isn't it in your face. my thoughts were "is it just a case of supply & demand or just scam the tourists with a block of brown sugar??. anyway i feel radson your thoughts were raw and progressive (loved em). so i thought i would add a good ol' conspiracy theory to the mix.
Parts of this story may be true but try this on.
my wife ,7 & 3 yr old and myself were booked to go bali just recently and we were concerned about the dope in boogeyboard bull so i asked a tricky, reliable source and this is what he said
" i am telling you she is 100% guilty - my boys and i have been after the family and connections in this region and home(australia) for years. take the wife and kids and don't worry." i said " what about the whole way in crap at the airport, what if, what if , what if.??? he said " who do you think gave the indonesians, the tip off. do you think they search every boogey board, don't worry have a good trip." "oh" i said. i get it. so i think to myself. have the feds known of this mule or has she been set up (by my tricky source). but why ?? one asks, glad you did .
the story might unfold like this: the feds cannot catch this so called drug trader family. the heat has been turned up in bali due to the wipe out in aceh and sumartra-stocks are low and logistics way too difficult to ship through these channels (tsunami). were the drugs planted or was it a family favour to be a mule ?? - Dosn't matter to my mate tricky. he says, " it means zero,zip to the task at hand. we are in the box seat. we be the train, she be the tunnel "
hmm... the word on the street. miss boogeyboard will get life but will have a chance to spend it in an aussie jail if and only if she rolls on the family. fact or fiction ???
let's see what happens - oh yeah just got back from over there and had a great time and even returned with a suntan.
cheers.
Parts of this story may be true but try this on.
my wife ,7 & 3 yr old and myself were booked to go bali just recently and we were concerned about the dope in boogeyboard bull so i asked a tricky, reliable source and this is what he said
" i am telling you she is 100% guilty - my boys and i have been after the family and connections in this region and home(australia) for years. take the wife and kids and don't worry." i said " what about the whole way in crap at the airport, what if, what if , what if.??? he said " who do you think gave the indonesians, the tip off. do you think they search every boogey board, don't worry have a good trip." "oh" i said. i get it. so i think to myself. have the feds known of this mule or has she been set up (by my tricky source). but why ?? one asks, glad you did .
the story might unfold like this: the feds cannot catch this so called drug trader family. the heat has been turned up in bali due to the wipe out in aceh and sumartra-stocks are low and logistics way too difficult to ship through these channels (tsunami). were the drugs planted or was it a family favour to be a mule ?? - Dosn't matter to my mate tricky. he says, " it means zero,zip to the task at hand. we are in the box seat. we be the train, she be the tunnel "
hmm... the word on the street. miss boogeyboard will get life but will have a chance to spend it in an aussie jail if and only if she rolls on the family. fact or fiction ???
let's see what happens - oh yeah just got back from over there and had a great time and even returned with a suntan.
cheers.