future for your chldren....
- Thread starter vicnxtine
- Start date
tim: you got that right, that guy in Texas (not Froggy) is killing us; and completely destroying what good was left in America before he became president. Also, your Buffett quote is so very true... If we don't laugh, those with a conscience would all go insane.
I will try and get back to the origanal reason for this topic which was "As I see it is the pros and cons of bringing up mixed marridge or straight bule kids in Indonesia.
As of few of you know we moved to Perth after 8 years in RI.
and a few of you also know how my heart bleeds (at times) for my adopted country (RI)The love of shareing life with my friends and family in the true Indonesian way brings a tear to my soul in many ways and at many times.
The reason I as the head of the house and the only white boy (in colour only) in the family made this heart wrencing decision was based on my childrens future.
Spirtually my kids are far richer living their Indonesian life but academecally they where to say the lest "Hobbled"So for me my kids where given to me on loan and as steward of this gift I decided that they would be better off with a western education so that one day they can return to their homeland as a free man and not a hobbled person.I say hobbled in a very complicated way with many different meanings attached but to try and clarify this word I have used I will give a few quick reflections.
Would their RI education have opened doors in any country that "they" choose to live as adults ?
Would they like to be treated like an alien as adults in Indonesia bye never being able to accept freely any employment "they" choose to work at or would they like to go on the Kitas roundabout because thay arnt recognised citizens.
Well for me the choose for them was easy:Give them a globally recognised status and when they go back they can hold their head up and not have to lie their way thru.
For me leaving was the biggest decision I have ever made and forced me to throw away all of the selfish reasons why I wanted to stay.
So its up to you........everyone has their own priorities.
Bye the way I just received an SMS from my best friends in Indonesia (Pribumi) they are siting around drinking arak playing the guitar and saying the music is not the same without Pak Cap. Fuel for a tear...I love you and ill be back.
As of few of you know we moved to Perth after 8 years in RI.
and a few of you also know how my heart bleeds (at times) for my adopted country (RI)The love of shareing life with my friends and family in the true Indonesian way brings a tear to my soul in many ways and at many times.
The reason I as the head of the house and the only white boy (in colour only) in the family made this heart wrencing decision was based on my childrens future.
Spirtually my kids are far richer living their Indonesian life but academecally they where to say the lest "Hobbled"So for me my kids where given to me on loan and as steward of this gift I decided that they would be better off with a western education so that one day they can return to their homeland as a free man and not a hobbled person.I say hobbled in a very complicated way with many different meanings attached but to try and clarify this word I have used I will give a few quick reflections.
Would their RI education have opened doors in any country that "they" choose to live as adults ?
Would they like to be treated like an alien as adults in Indonesia bye never being able to accept freely any employment "they" choose to work at or would they like to go on the Kitas roundabout because thay arnt recognised citizens.
Well for me the choose for them was easy:Give them a globally recognised status and when they go back they can hold their head up and not have to lie their way thru.
For me leaving was the biggest decision I have ever made and forced me to throw away all of the selfish reasons why I wanted to stay.
So its up to you........everyone has their own priorities.
Bye the way I just received an SMS from my best friends in Indonesia (Pribumi) they are siting around drinking arak playing the guitar and saying the music is not the same without Pak Cap. Fuel for a tear...I love you and ill be back.
I cannot add much but I can say this. My (Indonesian) wife has studied foreign languages in Indonesia but here in Belgium her certificat is worth nothing. She is seen as non-educated.
I dont have children yet, but I would love to have children, so probably in the future we will. My idea always was to send the children to an international school in Bali and after that (if that is suitable for the child in question) to a university in Europe, Australia or the US.
Apart from the high costs, will this be a bad education? I always thought not. And by adding the better balinese spirit, their overall education should be excellent (assuming that Santi and I do our job as parents ok).
Apart from the high costs, will this be a bad education? I always thought not. And by adding the better balinese spirit, their overall education should be excellent (assuming that Santi and I do our job as parents ok).
What about few years here and few years there. It's always been my dream to experience different cultures and live at different countries every five or so years. Hehehe.
I have a one year old daughter, and she's half Balinese and half Caucasian, hum. Now I wonder where would be the best place to raise her... back in Indonesia or here in US? You guys made me think now... I think either place would be the best if I try to be the best fit parent to her... Because anywhere in the world will always have pros and consm pos and negs... right?
I have a one year old daughter, and she's half Balinese and half Caucasian, hum. Now I wonder where would be the best place to raise her... back in Indonesia or here in US? You guys made me think now... I think either place would be the best if I try to be the best fit parent to her... Because anywhere in the world will always have pros and consm pos and negs... right?
Re: RE: future for your chldren....
"Quality of Life"...
We never know when our time comes - Live life to the fullest!
1. Extended Family
Mother's side of the family (Balinese) is much larger so for extended family reasons it would be nice to live in Bali.
2. Culture
I love the rich and colourful Balinese (Indonesia in general) culture, where Canada has very little (Canada is of course a very young country). The only thing I will REALLY miss from Canada is hockey...
3. Financial
With a dollar income for a Canadian business, the exchange rate from CAD to RP will "hopefully" allow me to cut down on my work so I can spend more time with the family. This is very important to me! (Fun in the sun, surfing, fishing, traveling, etc...)
4. Personal
There is no reason to feel selfish when putting yourself in the decision making process. I am very unhappy here in Canada. Canada is a great country, it really is, but my heart is in Indonesia. You cannot share happiness if with your children if you yourself are not happy.
5. Schooling
Naturally this is the one area that most of us are concerned about for the reasons already expressed in this thread (and I agree with the poster who mentioned an Indonesian education can mean very little when applying for certain positions in the west). However, when I weigh this with points 1 to 4 I feel confident that my children's "Quality of Life" will be better in Bali.
For me there is only one trump card and that would be if you knew before hand what you children's ambitions are going to be. If they want to become something where there is a clear advantage to the living in one place over another because of it, then that's different of course (professional athlete, etc..). Since I don't know what their ambitions are going to be, I feel comfortable that they can still achieve most things growing up in Bali and I can feel good about raising them in an environment where they should have a wonderful childhood filled with all the beauty Bali has to offer them.
My only concern is not being able to get there fast enough! :wink:
I just wanted to add to this as well. There is MUCH more to childhood than making ones decision based on the best possible school which will only show it's worth later on in life. For one the quality of life to me should always come first. Now if you are fortunate enough to be able to spend all kinds of time with you children in the west than it might make sense to live in the west so your kids will have more credentials when they enter the working world. However, for many of us who are a slave to our work just to support the family, spending "more" time with our kids is not alway possible. This is where I based my decision on.drbruce said:
"Quality of Life"...
We never know when our time comes - Live life to the fullest!
1. Extended Family
Mother's side of the family (Balinese) is much larger so for extended family reasons it would be nice to live in Bali.
2. Culture
I love the rich and colourful Balinese (Indonesia in general) culture, where Canada has very little (Canada is of course a very young country). The only thing I will REALLY miss from Canada is hockey...
3. Financial
With a dollar income for a Canadian business, the exchange rate from CAD to RP will "hopefully" allow me to cut down on my work so I can spend more time with the family. This is very important to me! (Fun in the sun, surfing, fishing, traveling, etc...)
4. Personal
There is no reason to feel selfish when putting yourself in the decision making process. I am very unhappy here in Canada. Canada is a great country, it really is, but my heart is in Indonesia. You cannot share happiness if with your children if you yourself are not happy.
5. Schooling
Naturally this is the one area that most of us are concerned about for the reasons already expressed in this thread (and I agree with the poster who mentioned an Indonesian education can mean very little when applying for certain positions in the west). However, when I weigh this with points 1 to 4 I feel confident that my children's "Quality of Life" will be better in Bali.
For me there is only one trump card and that would be if you knew before hand what you children's ambitions are going to be. If they want to become something where there is a clear advantage to the living in one place over another because of it, then that's different of course (professional athlete, etc..). Since I don't know what their ambitions are going to be, I feel comfortable that they can still achieve most things growing up in Bali and I can feel good about raising them in an environment where they should have a wonderful childhood filled with all the beauty Bali has to offer them.
My only concern is not being able to get there fast enough! :wink:
Hi Guys....... haven't posted for quite a while now, been busy with business, kids, house, etc, etc. But I have been nosing around sometimes! :roll:
Anyway, this subject is quite interesting to me because of our plans to move to Bali with our kids, which was going to be after this summer but now has been postponed to probably next year! :cry: Why? Because our eldest son decided to go to Uni for a couple of years and we don't want to leave him behind yet!
Our children are simply too precious and we will always do our best for them. As much as we would love to make the big move this summer, our son's education must come first. Next year he'll be 19, so maybe then we'll feel comfortable to leave him behind for a year or so to finish Uni. Hopefully he'll then join us, but if he wants to go further with Uni here then so be it. Our eldest son is not the problem though as he's more or less an adult now. It's the schooling of our 5 yr old son that's worrying us.
Before coming to UK I studied law at a Uni in Jakarta and my qualifications were worth NOTHING! I had to start from scratch again and in the end gave up law and studied something completely different again here! For the last 14 yrs now we've run our own companies and as employers we're aware that there are many people who even went to international schools in African/Asian countries, their quals are simply not recognised here!
Therefore to give them the best chance possible in life, I think it's ok for kids to be educated in places like Bali, but maybe only to a certain level. Personally I'd do it to possibly age 14, making sure that the child has been properly prepared for whichever education system he/she will be going at 14.
For my 5 yr old, I think the plan would be:
1. To age 11 - attend Dyatmika School (Sanur), a top notch bilingual Indonesian school which uses 40% UK curricullum. Not as expensive as International schools.
2. To age 14 - attend an International School with UK curricullum. Don't think there's a British School in Bali, but Canggu Community School does use UK's curricullum. However, at the moment I think only to year 7 (1st year of Secondary). I believe it'll be expanded further in future though!
3. After age 14 - we'll have to explore the options nearer the time, but he will most likely come back to England to study. Either we go back with him, or if he wants to he could perhaps go to a boarding school or even stay with a close relative. It's a long way off, but it still has to be planned carefully, especially financially.
Anyway, this subject is quite interesting to me because of our plans to move to Bali with our kids, which was going to be after this summer but now has been postponed to probably next year! :cry: Why? Because our eldest son decided to go to Uni for a couple of years and we don't want to leave him behind yet!
Our children are simply too precious and we will always do our best for them. As much as we would love to make the big move this summer, our son's education must come first. Next year he'll be 19, so maybe then we'll feel comfortable to leave him behind for a year or so to finish Uni. Hopefully he'll then join us, but if he wants to go further with Uni here then so be it. Our eldest son is not the problem though as he's more or less an adult now. It's the schooling of our 5 yr old son that's worrying us.
Before coming to UK I studied law at a Uni in Jakarta and my qualifications were worth NOTHING! I had to start from scratch again and in the end gave up law and studied something completely different again here! For the last 14 yrs now we've run our own companies and as employers we're aware that there are many people who even went to international schools in African/Asian countries, their quals are simply not recognised here!
Therefore to give them the best chance possible in life, I think it's ok for kids to be educated in places like Bali, but maybe only to a certain level. Personally I'd do it to possibly age 14, making sure that the child has been properly prepared for whichever education system he/she will be going at 14.
For my 5 yr old, I think the plan would be:
1. To age 11 - attend Dyatmika School (Sanur), a top notch bilingual Indonesian school which uses 40% UK curricullum. Not as expensive as International schools.
2. To age 14 - attend an International School with UK curricullum. Don't think there's a British School in Bali, but Canggu Community School does use UK's curricullum. However, at the moment I think only to year 7 (1st year of Secondary). I believe it'll be expanded further in future though!
3. After age 14 - we'll have to explore the options nearer the time, but he will most likely come back to England to study. Either we go back with him, or if he wants to he could perhaps go to a boarding school or even stay with a close relative. It's a long way off, but it still has to be planned carefully, especially financially.
Just been reading website of Dyatmika School again and just been reminded that in fact this school actually does have a High School too! It goes right up to Senior High School!
So, if the school is as good as I think it is, then maybe our little boy can stay there until he's 16 then go to College/Uni in England! Which would be a lot better..... but I will still check the status of their world-wide University of Cambridge International Examination Certificates, here in UK. (These are the certs gained for sitting the GCSEs, AS & A Levels there)
Will keep you posted!
So, if the school is as good as I think it is, then maybe our little boy can stay there until he's 16 then go to College/Uni in England! Which would be a lot better..... but I will still check the status of their world-wide University of Cambridge International Examination Certificates, here in UK. (These are the certs gained for sitting the GCSEs, AS & A Levels there)
Will keep you posted!
Good to read all the replies after I set this disscusion back on its track.
Its amazing how similar us Indonesian loving people are (with children)
And you know what... all that everyone is saying is true...........No one person is wrong.
So for my decision to move to WA to educate our kids 8 & 12yrs was (even at times very emotional) the right thing to do.
Its funny when we where in the prosses of moving from INdo I asked my wife where she would like to move to she choose WA and the reasons where "cause its the closest to Indonesia" not silly eh!!!!!!! 3 1/2 hours to the heart of my soul.
God bless all of you people in your decisions .
Cap
Its amazing how similar us Indonesian loving people are (with children)
And you know what... all that everyone is saying is true...........No one person is wrong.
So for my decision to move to WA to educate our kids 8 & 12yrs was (even at times very emotional) the right thing to do.
Its funny when we where in the prosses of moving from INdo I asked my wife where she would like to move to she choose WA and the reasons where "cause its the closest to Indonesia" not silly eh!!!!!!! 3 1/2 hours to the heart of my soul.
God bless all of you people in your decisions .
Cap
Just reading all this again, I haven't commented as I don't have children of my own - just step-children who are Indonesian, and I'm not involved in their education decisions.
I think Irma's plans are pretty sound. Education is very important to set kids up for life, however in the earlier years the focus does not need to be so much on an academic education. There are many other things to be learnt by a child, and Bali would be a wonderful place to grow up and receive a diverse education.
I did not have much of an academic education until the last 2 1/2 years of high school, and it was at my insistance that I got one. As a 14 year old I could see that if I was to exist anywhere other than on the fringes in a Western society that I needed the academic qualifications.
I believe having a mix of educations (academic and non-academic) made me a more rounded person and gave me advantages that my peers perhaps don't have.
Life is about choices, and to give your children the best choices available, an academic education is necessary - so at least the last 3 years of high school should focus on that. For some that might mean temporarily moving back to the west, or sending your kids to boarding school.
I wouldn't think that limiting your children to the work choices in Indonesia, through a limited Indonensian education, is a good idea. Some of the people in this discussion have children who are mixed western/Indonesian - as Sergio knows, in Indonesia, you are never really accepted as Indonesian, particularly if you look western. In Indonesia, if they know one of your parents is a bule, then it could be very expensive to get a decent job. For western kids growing up in Bali it would be even more difficult.
Personally I'm glad I am not faced with the complication of children, for me when we go back to living in Bali (or Lombok) the biggest challenge will be money. Better go make some more so I can add it to the jar.....
I think Irma's plans are pretty sound. Education is very important to set kids up for life, however in the earlier years the focus does not need to be so much on an academic education. There are many other things to be learnt by a child, and Bali would be a wonderful place to grow up and receive a diverse education.
I did not have much of an academic education until the last 2 1/2 years of high school, and it was at my insistance that I got one. As a 14 year old I could see that if I was to exist anywhere other than on the fringes in a Western society that I needed the academic qualifications.
I believe having a mix of educations (academic and non-academic) made me a more rounded person and gave me advantages that my peers perhaps don't have.
Life is about choices, and to give your children the best choices available, an academic education is necessary - so at least the last 3 years of high school should focus on that. For some that might mean temporarily moving back to the west, or sending your kids to boarding school.
I wouldn't think that limiting your children to the work choices in Indonesia, through a limited Indonensian education, is a good idea. Some of the people in this discussion have children who are mixed western/Indonesian - as Sergio knows, in Indonesia, you are never really accepted as Indonesian, particularly if you look western. In Indonesia, if they know one of your parents is a bule, then it could be very expensive to get a decent job. For western kids growing up in Bali it would be even more difficult.
Personally I'm glad I am not faced with the complication of children, for me when we go back to living in Bali (or Lombok) the biggest challenge will be money. Better go make some more so I can add it to the jar.....
Thanks Freo! Don't know if my plans would work out ok, but none of us has any insight into our kids' future, so the best we can do is to at least have a plan!
It would be great if we all could all just live where we like, how we like, with no complications, no worries, no plans.... but that's not the reality as we all know! Especially if kids are involved! Nooooo chance! But, I don't mind..... it's cool. Our kids are our future after all! 8)
I would love to live near my Mum & family again in my home country, I would love for my boys to get to know them properly, my husband would love to be a beach bum, etc, etc..... but not at the expense of our boys' future career. A good education foundation is top priority for their future even if they're not academic enough for Uni!
It would be great if we all could all just live where we like, how we like, with no complications, no worries, no plans.... but that's not the reality as we all know! Especially if kids are involved! Nooooo chance! But, I don't mind..... it's cool. Our kids are our future after all! 8)
I would love to live near my Mum & family again in my home country, I would love for my boys to get to know them properly, my husband would love to be a beach bum, etc, etc..... but not at the expense of our boys' future career. A good education foundation is top priority for their future even if they're not academic enough for Uni!
I have been wanting to rsemi/etire and go and live in Indonesia for years. What has stopped me...the children and the life and education.
I appreciate all points of view expressed previously but mine.....and their and Maria's decision was to stay west. Others may think it is to stay east. One thing is for sure it will be an individual decision on the part of the family concerned. I agree there is no right way just your way. Whichever is taken I wish all the very best of luck.
I have just spoken to home and 3 of my kids are still in bed at 11 am in the morning......If they were in the Kampung they would have been working for 5 hours
I appreciate all points of view expressed previously but mine.....and their and Maria's decision was to stay west. Others may think it is to stay east. One thing is for sure it will be an individual decision on the part of the family concerned. I agree there is no right way just your way. Whichever is taken I wish all the very best of luck.
I have just spoken to home and 3 of my kids are still in bed at 11 am in the morning......If they were in the Kampung they would have been working for 5 hours
It´s too complicated to speak about education in Indonesia. Scholl is now one of "big business" in Indonesia, more and more... good scholl=good money. The kids learn like machine with just one destination name "examen". I see oftenly that scholl is one of legal-torture-institution for the kids. More and more school-system steal their time to live as kids... to learn this world from their eyes... to find out how and why they must learn about this or that.
So ... it´s extremely sad to hear that in Indonesia we can buy certificate, and that´s one reason why indonesian certificate is worth nothing . But here in Germany we can studi post graduated programm with indonesian certificate.
So ... it´s extremely sad to hear that in Indonesia we can buy certificate, and that´s one reason why indonesian certificate is worth nothing
. But here in Germany we can studi post graduated programm with indonesian certificate.