future for your chldren....

[vicnxtine]

Hi!
Just want to know your thinking of the future of your children.
I am an Indonesian, married to a German. I am in Germany now and would really like to move to Indonesia, especially Bali. I am so happy that finally my husband have a chance to get a staying permit without setting up any company. BUT::::: many Indonesian who are living a broad telling me not to do that, Indonesia doesn't have a good future for the children.
Honestly, it doesn't change my 'heart desire'....
It would be great if you can share your thinking about your children's future in Indonesia, mostly if you're not Indonesian but 'brave' enough to just follow your heart to live in Indonesia.
Thanks.....
By the way, anybody ( any husband) got a staying permit with their wife as a sponsor already??? ( without setting up a company)
*Schöne grüsse*
Christine

 

[Sergio]

Hi Christine,

I'm Dutch/Indonesian (my mother's from Indonesia) and my wife is Balinese. We've been living in Canada for the last 4 years and while here we've been blessed with two beautiful boys; Arjuna (age 3, 4 next month) and Sadewa (age 2, 3 in Dec.). We would both love to move back to Bali and are planning to do so within the next 2-3 years (wish I could be there now!).

I know there are a few expats here who have children in everything from home schools to international schools to Indonesian schools (and you'll find quite a few threads on schooling in Bali) but I don't remember reading anything about expats who's children were schooled in Bali and are now in a western university, and more importantly, how well they were able to adjust. I would love to hear more on this myself!

As for their future in Bali work wise, when they graduate from school? Unless they can follow whatever your business is in Bali, I would say that's the biggest set back! I imagine that's what your Indonesian friends are referring to also; there is very little job/career opportunities for them in Indonesia compared to the west (generally speaking of course).

 

[Jimbo]

3 of my children were born in Indonesian but as they started to grow up we moved to the UK for their education. Now we are going back for a big family visit but they do not want to settle there having adapted to the English culture.

In Indonesia to get a good job in addition to having a good standard of education you also need to know someone who can help. Even to join the police, army or goverment service you need the above or maybe as happened to my brother in law pay a substantial amount of money.

At the end of the day it is difficult but not impossible. Do not forget also they would almost certainly have to take on Indonesian citizenship as trying to get work as an inexperianced expat would be almost impossible. I wish you luck in your decision.

 

[drbruce]

Christine,

The whole idea of what a good future is is not set in stone. The Western idea of "progress" is certainly one way to live, but not the only one. (Too bad that Roy's not here because I think that we agree on this to an extent.) There's a long philosophical road that you have to go down before you make a decision involving kids. For us, our decision came down to letting the kids decide once they got a bit older. Two of them are now, and they are going with staying in Indonesia.

As I said above (trying not to be pedantic about this), there are a lot of variables that need to be considered. For us a few of them were: racism in the US, cost of living, religion, cultural values, family, overall style of life, education. As an educator, I put that last because when it all gets boiled down to basics, a kid that wants to learn will despite the environment that they swim in. I've seen a lot of good schools with kids who are just wasting their time and their parents' money.

Well, there's other issues here, but I need to get going because I have some classes soon.

Best of luck.

 

[froggy]

Doc, racism in the U.S? can you expand your thoughts on this matter? \But I do agree with you on all the other matters..... Frog

 

[manc in oz]

Is there a country with no racism?

 

[drbruce]

Froggy,

In what way would you like this expanded on? I'm guessing that you don't mean to suggest that racism doesn't exist in the US. I meant that I didn't want my kids to be exposed to the anti-Asian racism that some of my Asian students had to deal with when I taught in the States.

 

[Jimbo]

As my kids are mixed race I have asked them about this but they have experienced little of this although I freely admit it can and does happen.

 

[Sergio]

Re: RE: future for your chldren....

Froggy,

In what way would you like this expanded on? I'm guessing that you don't mean to suggest that racism doesn't exist in the US. I meant that I didn't want my kids to be exposed to the anti-Asian racism that some of my Asian students had to deal with when I taught in the States.

Its funny you should say that, Dr. Bruce. My children look more Caucasian than Asian and they will no doubt be subjected to more race related issues in Indonesia than they would here. This does not only affect school time of course, it will be an issue no matter what. My kids will invited their friends to our house and they will see that we may live with more luxuries than them and that's of course always going to be an issue.

 

[drbruce]

Well Sergio,
I don't know how that will work for you. The only problem that my daughter who looks like a Westerner has is that people continually tell her how beautiful she is. Money will always be an issue if you plan on having lots of it, but there's not much you can do about that other than teaching kids about the responsibilities that come with having more than others - in our case it's called meeting our obligations for zakat, and being appreciative of what we have.

My comment about the States came from objective research carried out years ago when I was a young anthropologist. My other experiences re racism come from the less objective position of being a civil rights activist during the King days back in Chicago.

Does racism exist here? Sure it does. Has it affected my kids? Other than Rebecca's experiences no.

Out of time.

 

[Sergio]

I find it so uncomfortable when people look at me, I wish I could look Indonesian so I can pick my nose without everyone watching. Just want the same for my little nose pickers.

 

[froggy]

I live in the most diverse country in the world, In hindsight alot of slaves were fortunate to come to America- look at the slavery and crap that goes on all over Africa TODAY! I dont want to hear any one Bitch about it everyday because of things that happend years before, Im sorry to any black or any different skinned colored person if your family was used in the past, and I will gladly buy you a plane ticket if you want to go home to your "motherland".....

 

[drbruce]

Not much else to say, Froggy, if you're taking the position that people were fortunate to come to America as slaves.

 

[iainsomers]

In the United States of America there is NO racism. Everyone lives in peace together. The all help each other and color, religion or sexual preference is never even an issue to judge somebody.

I wish I lived there. Maybe in my next life.

 

[Jimbo]

Having worked lived and visited 41 different countries (shortly another 1 will be added) I have yet to come across a racist free country.

There is a little bit of racisim in all of us becaus it is human nature o defend the "tribe". I doubt if Froggy thinks of himself as a racist. We all have a point of view and possible experences that have contributed to it.

 

[froggy]

Slavery was legal? And was moral then... the bible even allows for it. But like I said If any black person feels cheated, Ask them to move back to their "motherland". Its not even an issue, slavery, murder, raping women and children are going on everyday in Africa, But here in the states blacks OR "minorities get a job over you simply beacause they are classified as miniorities----- I guess white people get to bitch in 100 years , "how bad reverse discrimination was? And if you are fooling yourself that there is no discimination there- congratulations -Bravo!.... you are the master of your own dillusions... This is an old subject- you can find "bad" anywhere..... You can raise children in alot of places. Bali's not Bad in places, Americas not bad in some places,, just have to move to the right side of town, sure that goes for the U.K. ,, Aus, etc... The "place" where you want to raise a child is under the watchful eye of loving parents, nomatter where you are,,,

 

[iainsomers]

lol

 

[JAMIE]

Just to add to Froggys though , I to am sick of the slavery argument here in the US . My people came to the US only 75 years ago and becouse Im white I to should be blamed for deeds done hundreds of years ago .( on that note by my western way of thingking , all the slaves brought here are better off ? ) All races have been slaves at one point or another . Cathlics were inslaved by the Romans and feed to the lions ) Heres a book dealing with whites being inslaved by Musliums ...when are we all gunna put the past behind and love one another ? WHEN EUROPEANS WERE SLAVES: RESEARCH SUGGESTS WHITE SLAVERY WAS MUCH MORE COMMON THAN PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED
COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before.


Robert Davis
In a new book, Robert Davis, professor of history at Ohio State University, developed a unique methodology to calculate the number of white Christians who were enslaved along Africa’s Barbary Coast, arriving at much higher slave population estimates than any previous studies had found.

Most other accounts of slavery along the Barbary coast didn’t try to estimate the number of slaves, or only looked at the number of slaves in particular cities, Davis said. Most previously estimated slave counts have thus tended to be in the thousands, or at most in the tens of thousands. Davis, by contrast, has calculated that between 1 million and 1.25 million European Christians were captured and forced to work in North Africa from the 16th to 18th centuries.

Davis’s new estimates appear in the book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800 (Palgrave Macmillan).

 

[froggy]

Every time I get a paycheck I realize Im a slave!! If I dont pay Taxes I will lose my house!slavery------in a modern form- we are slaves to our Govt..

 

[JAMIE]

I think the modern salves of our time are any dual income family, who owns a home and has kids in a school system in America. Those guys, back in the day who were outraged over taxation without representation, would have killed themselves in today's state of affairs in the USA and other western countries. Today if you stand up and demand rights or justification of our tax money expenditures, you are deemed un-American... Frog, I feel ya Bro :roll:

Edited by moderator... (no need to shout Jamie; we can hear you just fine)