banjar 'building' fees

meremortal

meremortal

Member
hello everyone, i'll dive straight in! i understand each and every village has it's own rules: i've received a letter from the banjar as i asked for this in writing via my javanese friend who lives in jember (the property is near balian beach in bali and in my friend's name). the banjar is asking for Rp15juta for what they say is building costs. i currently have my friend's cousin project managing a small renovasi and perbaiki due to white ants and coconuts falling on the roof and rodents entering the wooden buildings as i haven't yet made it to my desired retirement spot. i've owned the property since 2020 and the previous owner said they have paid the banjar for the erection of existing structures. should i pay again? has any one further information on this subject?
 
The only time I've been touched up for "building costs" it was for road improvement to my access road and they wanted to share Idr 120 million among all the expats on this road. I respectfully declined to take part as upon buying the my land I had paid (20 million) to have my access "briefed" guanranteed by the then Kepala desa for the full time of my residence here. Disappointed they went their merry way.

Now your situation sounds different or have you a description of what "building" they want you to pay for? Can't really be your own building as that is covered by the IMB (or modern equivalent) or as it sounds like a wooden building, possibly wouldn't need a building permit.

Be more detailed please.
 
Markit said:
The only time I've been touched up for "building costs" it was for road improvement to my access road and they wanted to share Idr 120 million among all the expats on this road. I respectfully declined to take part as upon buying the my land I had paid (20 million) to have my access "briefed" guanranteed by the then Kepala desa for the full time of my residence here. Disappointed they went their merry way.

Now your situation sounds different or have you a description of what "building" they want you to pay for? Can't really be your own building as that is covered by the IMB (or modern equivalent) or as it sounds like a wooden building, possibly wouldn't need a building permit.

Be more detailed please.
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Do the locals have to pay these high fees also, or is this only an expat situation?
 
Markit said:
The only time I've been touched up for "building costs" it was for road improvement to my access road and they wanted to share Idr 120 million among all the expats on this road. I respectfully declined to take part as upon buying the my land I had paid (20 million) to have my access "briefed" guanranteed by the then Kepala desa for the full time of my residence here. Disappointed they went their merry way.

Now your situation sounds different or have you a description of what "building" they want you to pay for? Can't really be your own building as that is covered by the IMB (or modern equivalent) or as it sounds like a wooden building, possibly wouldn't need a building permit.

Be more detailed please.
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Wow Markit. You must be doing a lot of soul searching lately. I was waiting for you to really dig into this guy for the following reasons:

- "the property is near balian beach in bali and in my friend's name"
- " i currently have my friend's cousin project managing a small renovasi "
- "i've received a letter from the banjar as i asked for this in writing via my javanese friend who lives in jember "

Red flags galore and you managed to restrain yourself. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
 
Markit said:
The only time I've been touched up for "building costs" it was for road improvement to my access road and they wanted to share Idr 120 million among all the expats on this road. I respectfully declined to take part as upon buying the my land I had paid (20 million) to have my access "briefed" guanranteed by the then Kepala desa for the full time of my residence here. Disappointed they went their merry way.

Now your situation sounds different or have you a description of what "building" they want you to pay for? Can't really be your own building as that is covered by the IMB (or modern equivalent) or as it sounds like a wooden building, possibly wouldn't need a building permit.

Be more detailed please.
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thanks for your quick response. the wooden structures on the property when purchased were two wooden 'villas' (with attached loos - they of course had part concrete walls) and one accompanying separate thatch and wooden dapur to serve the 'villas'. there was a garage/carport and laundry 'structure' at the top end/entrance which i've now made into a little staff house with two small bedrooms and open plan living/kitchen (same building footprint as existing and didn't move any walls as such altho i think there was two concrete walls on the carport). sorry i cannot be more precise as i haven't been on location/site. as you will know from my previous 'building experience' the first job wasn't completed altho all paid for. this included the staff house renovation (or part thereof as it turned out). the only tasks that have been completed is new thatch roof (twice!) on dapur; replace broken terracotta roof tiles on villas and gardening and clean up. wafi is currently organizing the timbers for replacement of termite damage. we've also thatched the top entry gate (maybe this is what drew attention to the property after it was left in disarray from the first builder?). AUD1.5k is a lot of money to a balinese village that hasn't even seen my footprint yet and to say they will 'block' my property (whatever that means) if i don't pay has certainly made me question whether i want to live in that village let alone own property there.
 
meremortal said:
AUD1.5k is a lot of money to a balinese village that hasn't even seen my footprint yet and to say they will 'block' my property (whatever that means) if i don't pay has certainly made me question whether i want to live in that village let alone own property there.
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As I suspected it's to do with access.

If you choose not to pay the 15 million, baring in mind I paid 20 15 years ago, then you can probably kiss goodbye to using this property. Your choice. If you do decide to bite the bullet get the Kepala desa to witness in writing your access rights forever or at least as long as you own the property - probably what the previous owners did too - hence your request to pay.

You haven't been singled out for "special" treatment, even other Indonesians have to pay for access to their properties too.
 
meremortal said:
thanks for your quick response. the wooden structures on the property when purchased were two wooden 'villas' (with attached loos - they of course had part concrete walls) and one accompanying separate thatch and wooden dapur to serve the 'villas'. there was a garage/carport and laundry 'structure' at the top end/entrance which i've now made into a little staff house with two small bedrooms and open plan living/kitchen (same building footprint as existing and didn't move any walls as such altho i think there was two concrete walls on the carport). sorry i cannot be more precise as i haven't been on location/site. as you will know from my previous 'building experience' the first job wasn't completed altho all paid for. this included the staff house renovation (or part thereof as it turned out). the only tasks that have been completed is new thatch roof (twice!) on dapur; replace broken terracotta roof tiles on villas and gardening and clean up. wafi is currently organizing the timbers for replacement of termite damage. we've also thatched the top entry gate (maybe this is what drew attention to the property after it was left in disarray from the first builder?). AUD1.5k is a lot of money to a balinese village that hasn't even seen my footprint yet and to say they will 'block' my property (whatever that means) if i don't pay has certainly made me question whether i want to live in that village let alone own property there.
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Man it sounds like they really are squeezing your balls with this one! How welcoming they are? You can be damn sure it's because you're a foreigner! I've always heard a foreigner can't own land, a motor vehicle or bike! So what the other person saying they didn't pay for road work because they had a deal with the Kepala Desa for the time they live there sounded odd to me! They must mean they payed for the house, but have it in an Indonesian name! To the best of my knowledge if a person is legally living, working, paying taxes in America they can have ownership in their name of a home, car, motorbike! And prices are the same for all people pertaining to food, supplies, equipment! They don't have a double standard to screw people from other countries. Not all foreigners are rich as the media projects and ignorant people think! If someone is sure this incorrect then please enlighten me!
 
hi shadrach, i lived in south africa under apatheid regime in the early 70s. i will never ever partake in such discriminative conditions again (as i didn't during the skam although i got into trouble a few times!). i thought i'd be retiring to a harmonious lifestyle where all people have equal rights (i've been visiting bali since the seventies and surfing there every off-season at the beginning of the century, spending sometimes 9 months at a time, at a few different surf locations throughout bali/lombok and sumbawa. altho i've been told some hair-raising stories i never ever expected myself to be part of these as i get a long very well with asians (eg i speak more asian languages than i do european). being asked to pay money for a written 'building regulation' that doesn't apply to me (eg i'm detracting from the traditional lifestyle of the village when i haven't built anything!) and being told my property will be blocked before i've received any notification of this payment is rather rough. and why wasn't the payment requested when property was purchased in 2020? i've decided to put the property on the market rather than pay the banjar (hopefully this is possible ....) as i've since found out there are only 5 bule living in this district and none own their own property (I WONDER WHY???) when on the other side of the river there must be hundreds of bule owning their own homes. i still don't agree with paying the fee as they can come up with something else for me to pay again later as the building regulation they have presented in writing (since my asking) doesn't apply to me or my property. i'm very generous (having purchased two balinese land for their own use over the years); but paying for something that doesn't apply to me is a bit odd. my property doesn't have a separate road. it is on the main drag up through the village so i'm unsure it is the same situation as the markit manouvre ;). thanks for your comment.
 
Markit said:
As I suspected it's to do with access.

If you choose not to pay the 15 million, baring in mind I paid 20 15 years ago, then you can probably kiss goodbye to using this property. Your choice. If you do decide to bite the bullet get the Kepala desa to witness in writing your access rights forever or at least as long as you own the property - probably what the previous owners did too - hence your request to pay.

You haven't been singled out for "special" treatment, even other Indonesians have to pay for access to their properties too.
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thanks for letting me know this. so if we are paying for 'entrance to THEIR domain' then why don't they be honest and tell us this rather than send a letter referring to some building regulation that might make their village less traditional? the previous owner (australian and indonesian) paid the same amount but told me it was for building on the land? thanks again for your indepth knowledge. it's made me feel a bit better knowing that i'm not the only one being picked on but i still question (refer my reply to shadrach below) why there are no other bule property owners nearby (i know there are two that have built near the beach on the east side of the river but unsure they are part of the same banjar).
 
meremortal said:
hi shadrach, i lived in south africa under apatheid regime in the early 70s. i will never ever partake in such discriminative conditions again (as i didn't during the skam although i got into trouble a few times!). i thought i'd be retiring to a harmonious lifestyle where all people have equal rights (i've been visiting bali since the seventies and surfing there every off-season at the beginning of the century, spending sometimes 9 months at a time, at a few different surf locations throughout bali/lombok and sumbawa. altho i've been told some hair-raising stories i never ever expected myself to be part of these as i get a long very well with asians (eg i speak more asian languages than i do european). being asked to pay money for a written 'building regulation' that doesn't apply to me (eg i'm detracting from the traditional lifestyle of the village when i haven't built anything!) and being told my property will be blocked before i've received any notification of this payment is rather rough. and why wasn't the payment requested when property was purchased in 2020? i've decided to put the property on the market rather than pay the banjar (hopefully this is possible ....) as i've since found out there are only 5 bule living in this district and none own their own property (I WONDER WHY???) when on the other side of the river there must be hundreds of bule owning their own homes. i still don't agree with paying the fee as they can come up with something else for me to pay again later as the building regulation they have presented in writing (since my asking) doesn't apply to me or my property. i'm very generous (having purchased two balinese land for their own use over the years); but paying for something that doesn't apply to me is a bit odd. my property doesn't have a separate road. it is on the main drag up through the village so i'm unsure it is the same situation as the markit manouvre ;). thanks for your comment.
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For sure they will come up with a way for you to pay more later! It's always shocked me that a person is forced to pay baksheesh to live in a Banjar area. Once I went to a friend's birthday party above Ubud, and she was forced to hire two locals to maintain parking for twenty motorbikes only! and her house was full of locals eating the food she had bought for her friends. I felt it was rude and overbearing! I was told if you don't participate in all the events at the Banjar, a foreigner has to pay for the privilege of living near the Banjar! This kinda takes away the idea of living your dream life in peace with privacy!
Yesterday I asked two local girls to put some leftover food in my fridge, so I could eat it today, and they was shocked that I would do this and said OH, we don't do this, we cook fresh daily. It was like she was saying everyone here does the the same as everyone else like programed robots. And if I ask for a noodle dish they ask me if I want a pile of white rice with that. I say when I eat noodles I don't eat rice, and they looked at me strange that I don't eat rice with every dish. This way of everyone following the same habits is unusual to me! By the way, where I stay meals are included in my rent! But they are very boring as they only eat the same dishes everyday. It I don't want white rice they look at me strange. You can forget anything like western food. It took ten times to get them not to put sugar and chiles in every dish!
 
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Shadrach said:
Man it sounds like they really are squeezing your balls with this one! How welcoming they are? You can be damn sure it's because you're a foreigner! I've always heard a foreigner can't own land, a motor vehicle or bike! So what the other person saying they didn't pay for road work because they had a deal with the Kepala Desa for the time they live there sounded odd to me! They must mean they payed for the house, but have it in an Indonesian name! To the best of my knowledge if a person is legally living, working, paying taxes in America they can have ownership in their name of a home, car, motorbike! And prices are the same for all people pertaining to food, supplies, equipment! They don't have a double standard to screw people from other countries. Not all foreigners are rich as the media projects and ignorant people think! If someone is sure this incorrect then please enlighten me!
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I sometimes struggle to be nice to idiots but your post is more full of shit than my 15 year old septic tank (which is also Cockney rhyming slang for "Yank", which I believe you also are). If you think you know what you are talking about you are mistaken on many levels, more than I wish to go into. As the Germans say " geh mit Got, aber geh".
 
These posts are wrong on so many levels I suspect I can't be of any more help;. If you believe as you say that these lovely people are "out to get you" because you are a foreigner then that's your take on reality and has nothing to do with mine, nothing. If you believe that in the west no one is treated similarly (or, god forbid, worse) then one can only wonder why you've chosen to abandon that Nirvana for the "wild east" and wish you a speedy return. Don't let the door hit in the ass.
 
Markit said:
I sometimes struggle to be nice to idiots but your post is more full of shit than my 15 year old septic tank (which is also Cockney rhyming slang for "Yank", which I believe you also are). If you think you know what you are talking about you are mistaken on many levels, more than I wish to go into. As the Germans say " geh mit Got, aber geh".
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As I asked, for someone to please correct me if I was mistaken. Thanks Markit for your eloquent and insightful description of your septic tank! Please tell us Can a Foreigner buy land in Indonesia and have it in their name? Same for motorbike, car?
I also asked if the amount a foreigner has to pay is the same as a local for these required dues to the Banjar? I do know for a fact that in the States people are not charged different prices for goods! Are you saying they do? I never said that the west is Nirvana, and I do like living in the Wild East! I was only trying to point out how Westerners are charged more here for many things, that is true and you know it! To be noted, I did ask for correction if I was mistaken! Oh and Danke Schon for your enlightened German religious comment!
 
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they';
Shadrach said:
For sure they will come up with a way for you to pay more later! It's always shocked me that a person is forced to pay baksheesh to live in a Banjar area. Once I went to a friend's birthday party above Ubud, and she was forced to hire two locals to maintain parking for twenty motorbikes only! and her house was full of locals eating the food she had bought for her friends. I felt it was rude and overbearing! I was told if you don't participate in all the events at the Banjar, a foreigner has to pay for the privilege of living near the Banjar! This kinda takes away the idea of living your dream life in peace with privacy!
Yesterday I asked two local girls to put some leftover food in my fridge, so I could eat it today, and they was shocked that I would do this and said OH, we don't do this, we cook fresh daily. It was like she was saying everyone here does the the same as everyone else like programed robots. And if I ask for a noodle dish they ask me if I want a pile of white rice with that. I say when I eat noodles I don't eat rice, and they looked at me strange that I don't eat rice with every dish. This way of everyone following the same habits is unusual to me! By the way, where I stay meals are included in my rent! But they are very boring as they only eat the same dishes everyday. It I don't want white rice they look at me strange. You can forget anything like western food. It took ten times to get them not to put sugar and chiles in every dish!
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yes, it does rather detract from the ideal dream world we wish for. they're gonna find it hard pleasing me as i only eat raw but that is the whole idea of buying a large property with fruit trees and an area to grow veg (either there or up at baturiti where my next purchase may or may not be depending on how well i'm treated at desa lahlanglinggah going forward!! heehee still laughing at your rice and noodles dish! have you tried java as my friend is from jember and she says there are not the regulations there as in bali? i know the food looks nicer!
 
meremortal said:
yes, it does rather detract from the ideal dream world we wish for. they're gonna find it hard pleasing me as i only eat raw but that is the whole idea of buying a large property with fruit trees and an area to grow veg (either there or up at baturiti where my next purchase may or may not be depending on how well i'm treated at desa lahlanglinggah going forward!! heehee still laughing at your rice and noodles dish! have you tried java as my friend is from jember and she says there are not the regulations there as in bali? i know the food looks nicer!
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If you want to grow your own grub then I advise to either get involved with the hydroponics movement here on the island (upright irrigation tubes in buckets) or get some land much further up the mountains - Bedugul or Kintimani are best. The bugs will eat all you can grow down here on the coasts.
 
Shadrach said:
As I asked, for someone to please correct me if I was mistaken. Thanks Markit for your eloquent and insightful description of your septic tank! Please tell us Can a Foreigner buy land in Indonesia and have it in their name? No, unless the land is either leased or under hak pakai. Same for motorbike, car? Can own in your own name with Kitas or Kitap.
I also asked if the amount a foreigner has to pay is the same as a local for these required dues to the Banjar? Depends on the banjar, but usually not. Mine has published fees in two categories, Balinese Hindus from outside the banjar and foreigners/other Indonesians. The latter pays more. Local Balinese from the banjar may pay something (I've no idea how much) or sometimes can do general cleanup and maintenance work in lieu of payment. I do know for a fact that in the States people are not charged different prices for goods! Are you saying they do? I never said that the west is Nirvana, and I do like living in the Wild East! I was only trying to point out how Westerners are charged more here for many things, that is true and you know it! There is the infamous pajak putih (white tax) which can sometimes be applied by merchants in places where prices aren't marked, eg traditional markets. In this case, the foreigner pays an inflated price, unless you know the language and can figure out what something should cost. Some tourist attractions also charge more for non-Indonesians in a two tier structure. To be noted, I did ask for correction if I was mistaken! Oh and Danke Schon for your enlightened German religious comment!
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Markit said:
If you want to grow your own grub then I advise to either get involved with the hydroponics movement here on the island (upright irrigation tubes in buckets) or get some land much further up the mountains - Bedugul or Kintimani are best. The bugs will eat all you can grow down here on the coasts.
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And if it's not the bugs, it's the hot weather! I tried to grow veggies in pots not far from the beach, and the white flies would wipe me out. The only things that thrived were aloe vera, okra, lemon and Thai basil. The greens just didn't like the warm nights and hot days. You're right about going up higher to grow food. Veggies really like cooler days and nights. Ubud, Mengwi, Bangli and such are a good start! I saw my friend higher up towards lake Batur and he had beautiful huge Broccoli and Cauliflower!
 
Balifrog said:
Gember....
Even if they paid me, I wouldn't live there...

My companion is not far away from there (Bangorejo). Longest I can bear it there is 10 days.
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nice to know before we go; but as i've learned in life (i live in margaret river which is meant to be the 'nicest' place in the world by most travellers/visitors; however, i've never found any one near a metaphysical conversation and altho i've been here for nigh on 25 years i can honestly say i'm not in the best place in the world. it is usually the people around one who makes a place nice. here i stayed because it had the best wave in the world!
 
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