Bali Street Dogs

Sanurian

Active Member
Sep 28, 2004
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Sanur
I know this is short notice but I was asked yesterday to try and promote a meeting of
"all animal lovers and people concerned with the Bali street dog problem".

The meeting is 2pm on Saturday, October 7, 2006 at Le Bake
The address is: Kuta Poleng, Simpang Siur, Kuta
(Le Bake is next door to DiJon.)

The purpose of the meeting is to share ideas and discuss possible solutions.

For further information, please feel free to call Linda on (0361) 790-4579 or HP: 081 855 0947

:D
 

Mark Wales

Member
Aug 16, 2006
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Wales, United Kingdom
Hi Sanurian,

This is a good idea. Are they any shelters for the street dogs?
And is your meeting to do with this? Just asking. Wondering
whether I could also be part of this?

Salaam Wulaykum
 

Sanurian

Active Member
Sep 28, 2004
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Sanur
It's very nice for me that there have been some responses to this thread. I haven't had a chance to write my own manifesto regarding what, in my opinion, is often the maltreatment of dogs around Bali. Soon.

And just to make this very clear...the meeting is not my meeting, but I'll be there.

Mark asks:

...Wondering whether I could also be part of this?...

Anybody who cares or has any ideas about this is more than welcome.

I'm not sure, Mats, that the previous Bali Street Dog projects have enough money to continue.

Then there are individuals, like Linda in Ubud, who do what they can with what they've got. All power to people like that. I adopted one dog off her some 6 weeks ago...wasn't in 'perfect' condition by any means. That dog is doing really well now although I think she ate a wasp today and her mouth was quite swollen for several hours. She's OK now. We took her to Ubud a couple of days ago so Linda could see her again. A nice trip, apart from the doggie vomiting in our car (again).

And Ned asks:

...please let us know the outcome of this meeting...

I will, for sure, Ned.
8)
 

Ilu

Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Norland Norway, Banjar Bali
Fir5st off all I would like to say that I love dogs. But I don`t undarstand why people want to resque all this dogs. most of tham is half dead. I can understad that some wants to resque the ones who is still healthy. Maby I just have missed something, but the realy ill dogs are they saved or are thay put to sleep?
I lived in Spain before and the street dogs was a huge problem in the town I was living. once a year the goverment killed all the loose dogs.
 

Mark Wales

Member
Aug 16, 2006
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Wales, United Kingdom
Well folks, the meeting regarding the Street Dogs went off well.
Infact, Phil and his dear wife adopted a beautiful black and white
male puppy with eyes that could steal your heart away. Looks a little
like one of those telly tubbies! Congrats, Phil, atleast one dog less
will go hungry tonight.
 

Sanurian

Active Member
Sep 28, 2004
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Sanur
Well, Ilu

It's kind of like this...

Bali has about 3.5 million people and nearly a million dogs. Many of the dogs are sick or ill-treated. It's not a pretty sight. Somebody should attempt to address this issue (the way I see it). There are many facets to "the issue", not the least of which is education for Balinese to learn how to look after animals that are not considered to be of any economic importance.

...But I don`t undarstand why people want to resque all this dogs. most of tham is half dead. I can understad that some wants to resque the ones who is still healthy. Maby I just have missed something, but the realy ill dogs are they saved or are thay put to sleep?...

You raise a number of points. Even a half-dead dog might deserve to be put out of its misery in a humane way. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen most of the time in Bali. Should sick dogs be "saved" or killed? Either way, who will do that and who will pay for it?

If, as you maintain, you "love dogs", I think you have "missed something". Sounds to me like you only have "compassion" for "healthy" ones. That's your choice, of course...but please give some consideration to what happens to the sick, legless and ugly ones.

Or do you believe they don't have a right to live with a minimum of dignity?

:x
 

Mark Wales

Member
Aug 16, 2006
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Wales, United Kingdom
Ilu wrote

I lived in Spain before and the street dogs was a huge problem in the town I was living. once a year the goverment killed all the loose dogs.

Well dear Ilu, Spain has a pretty poor track record where birds are concerned. As the Osprey will tell you, if it could speak. These wonderful birds "normally" migrate from North Africa to Wales and Scotland. Many were killed while flying over Spain. Apparently the Spanish (bless their souls) love shooting at anything that flies.

The Osprey worked out another route and soon (I had been fortunate enough to witness) they arrived back in Wales and were breeding there again after a gap of a few years. This was six months ago!!!

So when you mention the Spanish killing off dogs, frankly I'm not surprised.
 

tracyinaz

New Member
Oct 1, 2006
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Phoenix Arizona
Mark Wales said:
Ilu wrote

I lived in Spain before and the street dogs was a huge problem in the town I was living. once a year the goverment killed all the loose dogs.

Well dear Ilu, Spain has a pretty poor track record where birds are concerned. As the Osprey will tell you, if it could speak. These wonderful birds "normally" migrate from North Africa to Wales and Scotland. Many were killed while flying over Spain. Apparently the Spanish (bless their souls) love shooting at anything that flies.

The Osprey worked out another route and soon (I had been fortunate enough to witness) they arrived back in Wales and were breeding there again after a gap of a few years. This was six months ago!!!

So when you mention the Spanish killing off dogs, frankly I'm not surprised.
I noticed when we were in Bali the large amount of stray dogs in the streets. I don't believe that it is a problem only in Bali. I was reminded of the streets of towns in Mexico ( which we frequent often). In fact, it wasn't the dogs so much that drew our attention as the cats! The dogs seemed to receive some respect from the people around them. The cats on the other hand.....my husband even joked about the "feral kitties" that were around all the time! Being an animal lover, it is my instinct to take them all home, but, realistically there is only so much you can do. Kudos, Sanurian, for getting involved. As you pointed out, one animal at a time.

I'm afraid that I will have to leave my beloved cat, Molly, behind with my stepson when I move to Bali. I guess that means that I am in the market for a pet when I get there. I believe I will help the cause by adopting a dog myself!
 

hopeful

New Member
Mar 21, 2006
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sydney nsw
i care about all pets as well as people. they have a right to a better life if it can be offered, and to those who adopt a dog from the streets of Bali...you are a wonderful person.

I was quite happy donating $60.00 to the Bali street dog fund yesterday in Melbourne and i know that my donation will go to well deserved causes.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
Well, I just received this e-mail from out of the blue. I am prepared to sign over the entire amount of my windfall inheritance to the Bali street dogs. I mean, to hell with the starving kids, kids whose families can't afford proper medical care or education. You have convinced me that all my efforts in the last eight years were misguided, and I am opening up my door tomorrow to all our anjing kampung, thawing out all the steaks in my freezer and we are going to party to the dogs. Halleluiah! Brothers and sisters, I am re-born!


Hello,


My name is Mrs. Jennifer Wilson I am a dying woman who have decided to
donate what I have to you/ church. I am 66 years old and I was diagnosed
for cancer for about 3 years ago,immediately after the death of my husband, who has left me everything he worked for. I have been touched by God to donate from what I have inherited from my late husband to the you for the good work of God, rather than allow my relatives to use my husband hard earned funds ungodly.

Please pray, that the good Lord forgive me my sins. I have asked God to
forgive me and I believe he has because He is a merciful God. I will be
going in for an operation in less than one hour. I decided to WILL/donate the sum of $2,500,000 (Two million Five hundred thousand dollars) to you for the good work of the lord, and also to help the motherless and less privilege and also for the assistance of the widows.

At the moment I cannot take any telephone calls right now due to the
fact that my relatives are around me and my health status. I have adjusted my WILL and my lawyer is aware I have changed my will you and he will arrange the transfer of the funds from my account to you.

I wish you all the best and may the good Lord bless you abundantly, and
please use the funds well and always extend the good work to others.
Contact my lawyer with this specified email [email protected] and tell him that I have WILLED ($2,500,000.00) to you by quoting my personal reference number Danny Alveraz and associates DJ/MA/WILL/0925141312 and I have also notified him that I am WILLING that amount to you for a specific and good work.

I know I don.t know you but I have been directed to do this. Thanks and
God bless. NB: I will appreciate your utmost confidentiality in this matter
until the task is accomplished as I don't want anything that will
jeopardize my last wish. And Also I will be contacting with you by email as I don't want my relation or anybody to know because they are always around me.

Regards,

Jennifer Wilson
 

hopeful

New Member
Mar 21, 2006
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sydney nsw
:!: Just to clear things up, I also have a sponsored family in Singaraja who also receive my help and which I am very happy in doing so.
 

Ilu

Member
Jul 27, 2006
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16
Norland Norway, Banjar Bali
Hi Sanurian
I will try to explain better. I have already a dog in Bali. I foud it on the beach, so skinny and with a broken foot, I took it with me home and it became a good and healthy dog after a while. But some of this stay dogs is realy in a bad shape, the cost to make it healthy again is too much. Like Roy said I think it`s better to use money to help familys that is starving and can not pay for their medical needs. If people can adopt a dog that have a chanse to have a good healty life without paying millions of rupia that is great. But the realy sick ones why dont just save them from their pains and put them to sleep.
 

Sanurian

Active Member
Sep 28, 2004
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Sanur
Hi Ilu (and Roy)

Like the both of you, I am a human being, too. The issue of who spends what for selected animals (including humans) is just that...an issue. In the case of Bali's street dogs, I would have thought that the Balinese should be the ones to recognise there is a growing problem and do something about it.

Unhealthy dogs are potential sources of a variety of ailments for humans such as the zoonoses, scabies, ringworm, hookworm, leptospirosis, Lyme disease and rabies. When and if rabies gets a foothold on this island, (a matter of time), I guess everyone will freak out and try to do something. Watch for the excuses from those in "power". Remember how fast bird flu is spreading around this island (and the rest of Indonesia).

There are many facets to the dog paradigm here. Ecological, educational, "religious", medical and so forth. I hate to say this but I believe culling is the most efficient "solution" to dogs without owners. The problem is who will do that, who will pay for it, when, and will it be done "humanely"?

I, too, would rather contribute to programmes directed at alleviating poverty here, improving health and educational facilities, and so on. If the Balinese are so apparently indifferent to the "dog problem" they have mostly created themselves, through their disinterest and inaction, so be it. I don't believe for a moment that thousands of "offerings" will make a an iota of difference when the shit hits the fan, so to speak. And it will...just a matter of time.



:roll:
 

Mark Wales

Member
Aug 16, 2006
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Wales, United Kingdom
I think what Sanurian says makes sense. Infact, please correct me if am wrong, somewhere in Africa, they used to or still do, cull the elephant herds because burgeoning herds cannot be sustained by the environment.

Infact, stray or abandoned dogs in London are rounded up and kept by the Battersea Home for dogs for two weeks. If no one comes forward to adopt them they are humanely put to sleep.

Just the other day while feeding sausages to the next door neighbour's stray dogs, the neighbour's children rushed out to grab some sausages! This posed a dilemma to me - dogs or children.

So while we are discussing culling the dogs in Bali let's think about culling the old, sick, lame people on the island. In this way we can keep this Paradise from degenerating into a Paradiso Slum (which is slowly turning into anyway).

This is no Camelot. It's the real world. Maybe some of us have forgotten this. Though I have no argument to those who say that "beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder" What happens if the person is blind?
 

tintin

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2005
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Boston, MA, USA
Here is an idea (not mine), which may be difficult to implement in Bali, given the attitude (in general) of the Balinese toward animals, but on the other hand, given the uniqueness of the banjar form of government, could make it easier to implement, given the right incentives and leadership. Who knows?

Ok, here it is. In Los Angeles, CA, there is an ABSOLUTE non-profit Foundation (ridiculously small over-head) to control and cut down on the feral cat population (My oldest daughter has been a volunteer in this organization for several years). First, it starts at the highest level with the Mayor of the city having decreed that L.A. will be a “no-kill city,” i.e., feral cats will not be capture and then destroyed or given to research labs. It works something like this:

- All the work is done by volunteers.

- There is a network of veterinarians who agreed to much lower fees for certain basic services (neutering, shots).

- Each volunteer is given the responsibility for a small area near where he/she lives. He/she watches for the presence of feral cats in his/her area that he/she then captures and brings to the vet for neutering and eventual treatment. The (reduced) bill is paid by the volunteer who turns around and summit it to the organization for re-imbursement.

- The “fixed” feral cats are then released, as they cannot be rehabilitated. The first time the cat is captured, the cat’s tip of its ear is cut, so that it can be determined at a distance that this particular animal has already been captured and “fixed.” So, no need to trap it again.

- The volunteer has the responsibility, he/she knowing the area well where these animals tend to congregate, to bring them food and water on a regular basis. This last item must be done “in secret” because many people object, thinking this would attract even more straights.

- The volunteer also captures the kittens. They are taken to the volunteer’s house, where they can be tamed within a week or so, and therefore put up for adoption.

- On week-ends, in front of many pet stores, such as PerCo stores, tables are set up with the cats for adoption in cages. Advertising is done in newspapers and by word of mouth as to the locations of these pet stores. The potential owner of a new pet must promise to keep the cat(s) off the street, and if for any reason there is a change of mind, to return the cat(s) back to the organization, not just dump them back in the street.

- For cats that cannot be adopted for whatever reasons, there are “retirement homes” for them, private houses with everything cats need, overseen also by volunteers (retired old (and not so old) “cat ladies” (sorry about the stereotyping)

This program requires, as in any other volunteer organization, dedication on the part of the volunteers. However, although not perfect, it is highly successful and rewarding for everybody.

I will let you and your constructive collective imagination find ways to adapt this “cat program” to the dog problem in Bali. As I see it, it is obvious how to go about to make such program applicable to dogs, but go ahead, because, I am not fully cognizant of the situation on the ground in Bali: I have never lived there on a permanent basis, and my involvement with my banjar consisted only in some periodic financial contributions. I don't think I am wrong when I say that the implementation of such a program for the Bali dogs could be easier in many ways than the one in L.A. for its feral cats.

The buzz word for this program, any program, to work is CONTROL, CONTROL, and CONTROL over the population.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
Daniel, I have little doubt that approach would ever work in Bali for two reasons. Firstly, the Balinese indifference to animals is very much a part of Hindu/dharma and their culture. According to my Guru, animals are viewed as incarnations as well as humans. Trying to alter the balance of the animal population would be somewhat viewed as tantamount to interfering with karma, and that would not be tolerated, certainly at the banjar level.

Secondly, as you know, banjars have no walls or fences between them, thus dogs roam freely between banjars, especially during mating season. Neutering a dog from banjar A that belongs to banjar B could cause tension and potential problems between the banjars.

I have noted over the years that problematic dogs eventually are handled within the banjar, or by particular individuals. Poisoning meat is the favorite technique as the person responsible can take the view that the dog committed suicide by eating that meat. In other words, the killing was not an overt act, or at least not as overt as slitting its throat, and thus balance and karma is maintained.

My personal view is that the only long range partial solution to this problem is through education. At the primary school level and up, if the kids are educated to appreciate the responsibility of proper care for their dogs, the need for hygiene, veterinary care, and restraint within their compounds, some improvement could be expected by the next generation.
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
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Manchester and Makassar
Ok some one has to say it. Why not just catch them and put them to sleep. If you had seen the effects of rabies or a child attacked no one would hesitate.

These dogs are dangerous and spread disease and are just as much vermin as rats. People talk about humanely which is a misnomer. They are not humans.

Sorry. I love animals but not when they pose a threat to humans.

Sits back and awaits the pet lovers ire.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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Ubud, Bali
Actually Jimbo, the Bali street dogs present a far less health threat to humans than those nasty macaque monkeys that reside in several “monkey forests” around Bali, and occupy several of Bali’s most important temples.

Rabies in Bali, as Phil alluded to, is not a current problem, nor have there been any recorded cases, as far as my usually reliable information goes. And as for Lyme disease in Bali, forget it.

As a tip to any newbie or tourist to Bali that finds themselves being confronted with several barking Bali street dogs, and their taking on an aggressive stance, one of the best ways to ward them off, is to bend down as to pick up a rock. They’ll run like hell. The worst thing is to run yourself, as by doing that, you’ve only caused the “game to really begin.” The short haired Bali street dog, ala dingo is truly a dumb animal and they truly are afraid of humans who present themselves in a more aggressive manner than they.