Bali is suffocating
- Thread starter Bert Vierstra
- Start date
Although this is not my field of specialisation, if there is one thing I've learned how to do as a scientist is to read other people's scientific publication in any field and get the "meat" of what they are reporting. Accordingly, I obviously had scanned this particular publication first before I made the claim, and found among a tabulation of some of their data that during their lengthy investigation, the authors found that the Vibro cholera Ogawa subculture was present in their samples,
In Bali, 253 cases out of a field of 2,492 patients (10%)
In Jakarata, 191 cases in the field of 1,423 patients (13%)
I am sure you will have noted
that the same authors claimed in the text of the publication that the infection in Bali was greater than in Jakarta, when in fact the % of infected persons in JKT in their sample was slightly greater.And in the case of the Inaha serotype, one case was found in Jakarta and two cases in Denpasar.
Shall I go on, or is everybody bored to death by now? :lol:
And then you quote
From the last time I looked on a map, I seem to remember that Bali was nowhere near the Bay of Bengal :!: :lol: So given this last statement, maybe YOU should go back and re-read this particular paper.
I also wrote regarding last April gastrointestinal infection outbrake in Bali
and with this I rest my case.
...and now comes the Prince, in his shiny armour, to the defense of Princess Susi... :lol:
I've never have had the "pleasure" of meeting the Sieur Mark Austin, but based on his writings and reputation, I consider your comparison with the above mentioned damsel a most grave assault to her honor.
Therefore, I present myself as her defender and chalange you to a duel to wash this abominable slander. Being the offended party, I will choose the weapons: M67 hand grenades, at 25 paces, and of course, according to the time-honored duelling rules, I shoot first. 8)
I've never have had the "pleasure" of meeting the Sieur Mark Austin, but based on his writings and reputation, I consider your comparison with the above mentioned damsel a most grave assault to her honor.
Therefore, I present myself as her defender and chalange you to a duel to wash this abominable slander. Being the offended party, I will choose the weapons: M67 hand grenades, at 25 paces, and of course, according to the time-honored duelling rules, I shoot first. 8)
Ok, a rather late reply from me to the original post. It is more of some random thoughts that I have after reading the original post. Suzi’s original writing was an interesting one and has a lot of recognition of issues and problems that Bali faces that have been talked about a lot – also by local Balinese through various mediums. As I see it and understand it, it conveys concerns and also frustration of lack of improvements and resolutions to these issues, instead Bali seems to accumulate more issues and problems and the old ones have only gotten worst in the meantime. But, as Balinese I find some of her statements rather exaggerated especially those pertaining to Balinese which in my opinion lacking in local cultural understanding and grounding. People might say that is because I am too sensitive as I am Balinese. I was also rather disappointed and perhaps a bit surprised that after her views were posted in this forum, not many provided further analysis and arguments to either support or contradict her various statements – mainly general agreement. Why is it so?
Also, why is it that when such issues and problems facing Bali are being put forward, it is only addressed to the Balinese? Why not to the people living in Bali? Are these people not matter, are they not contributing to the problems, are they not part of the solutions?
Indeed, crime is on the increase in Bali. But where is a discussion of how and why this is happening? Is this a problem created by Balinese alone? Have the Balinese gone so desperate that crime is a more suitable solution to joblessness as compared to doing the odd hard labouring jobs? Or is it also related to increases in population settlement and migration from other parts of Indonesia (and or Bali) resulting in lack of proper employment opportunities and lack of respect for the place they adopt as their new homes? I was at the Gilimanuk terminal one time and watched as people embarked from the ferry. What was shocking to watch was, that there were guys on motorbikes waiting there to ‘pick up’ confused girls – girls who simply came out of the ferry with nothing other than the clothes on her back and a cardboard box suitcase, looking confused and disoriented, they succumbed to the harassments and sweet talks of these guys. Where do these girls end up? ‘Cafes’? ‘Prostitution’? Is it only my imagination that many of the hardcore crimes are being committed by people not from Bali? When local people are raising such issues or realising that as more people from outside settle in, the crimes rate seems to be on the increase, is it a very illogical conclusion for the local people to make? Whether this is the case or not, has to be studied in details. Of course, there are many honest people who simply want opportunities and are contributing to the community.
Bali is certainly not Paradise – perhaps it is only paradise for the select few, for the majority it is a home, a place to make a living and to raise family, a place for every day struggle to make ends meet.
There is now the problem with imported food and drinks. While I can understand the need to provide these products to tourists, I ask the question how is Bali to benefit if all the food and drinks that tourist and other products needed for tourists consumption are largely based on imported goods? How much of these will have real benefits to the local people (other than those lucky enough to get employment in this area)? I am not saying that there shouldn’t be any imported goods, because these added extra attractions for tourists to come and enjoy their stay.
Construction and labour jobs are done mainly by outsiders because they are willing to accept lower pay as compared to Balinese workers. How many times have this point being raised here in this forum? Many times, it is simply a matter of maximizing profits and reducing costs. Many states here to use Javanese for hard labouring jobs when doing construction or building works, as they are cheaper. How do you expect the young generation of Balinese to aspire to trade and construction jobs when it simply doesn’t give any good income or rewards?
Everything now is about the individual, making more profits and reducing costs, foreigners wanting to build in Bali do this, hotels and employers do this also?, and even Balinese farmers do this. It is simply cheaper for them to hire rice harvesters from Java as compared to hiring a Sekaa Manyi from Bali. Why would young Balinese people aspire to be part of Sekaa Manyi if they think – they only have to think, that with their high school education or diploma in tourism, this will somehow provides a better way to make a living? Unlike in the west, where employment in the menial jobs in the hospitality industry don’t require formal schooling and is merely part time jobs that pay pretty good, in Bali, young people flock to study diploma of tourism and hospitality so that they can gain employment in a hotel – so they can learn the proper way of folding blankets and how to wash dishes in the kitchen? Is this another sign of the bad educational standard in Bali?
I don’t think Balinese are allergic to hard works and manual jobs. Simply provide a bit more reward for these backbreaking jobs, and then you will find that people are still willing to do these kinds of jobs. You only have to go to local markets to see there are many who make their living by being a buruh – women carries heavy baskets full of produce on their heads and they get a ‘tip’ for their hard work. Should government employees work harder? Perhaps and maybe they should. Or are these employees simply reflecting or putting as much efforts as dictated by their low wages?
Many people benefit from tourism in Bali, but many only face the negative consequences of rising costs of living. How are farmers, who meticulously labour in the fields and create those nice rice paddies and ‘manufacture’ the views marketed as ‘products’ to attract tourists, benefits from tourism? Has there been any fund either collected and set aside to reward these farmers? NO! Hotels and villas are being built to maximise such views, but little thought is given on the plight of these farmers. Bali is a small island with very limited natural resources and limited natural attractions. But there have been little effort made to conserve the little it has – the rice paddies, the riparian zone of the rivers, the environment – not much is currently coming from the government and not much is coming from the tourism industry either.
I heard sometime concerns and complaints made that Balinese workers or employees are not so good for supporting business productivity as they often take days off – far too often. How many weeks a year are allocated for annual leaves for these workers? Not many know or even enjoy real holiday – not like what people in the industrialised and developed countries enjoyed and take for granted. Balinese (especially those that still follow Hinduism and have obligations to their Balinese traditions) are in real dilemma. On one hand, they have to meet their employer’s expectation and commitment to their workplace, which usually require strict timetable and not much flexibility. And on the other hand, they are also required to be part of their community, their banjar – be part of volunteering to prepare ceremonies, temple festivals, and the various and many religious and cultural Holidays Balinese have invented and deemed important since centuries. Unless they want to risk loosing their job, they often have to forgo obligations in the banjar and pay a fine, instead of missing a day at work. Is there any real understanding and support to allow Balinese to still continue their traditions and culture, specifically from the tourism industry that have used and market these traditions to attract tourists? Or are the culture and traditions seen only at once as commodity and side attractions for tourism and at the same time hindrance to productivity and progress? Are workers from outside the island hired to provide more certainty and fill the gap the Balinese left to fulfil their traditional obligations? For sure, tourism has provided income to many Balinese and allows them to continue and fund various elaborate ceremonies, but is there real conscious effort made to do more?
There are many people here who are not in support of religion, which is fair enough, and may think that the Balinese people will benefit and progress only once they release themselves from their strong connection with their religion and ancient customs? However, aren’t these also the attractions and the same things that make Bali that little bit different and perhaps rather unique? Or do I simply believe in the same rhetoric that have been told and sold to countless people for decades – the manufacturing of the paradise of Bali? An image that is increasingly hard to maintain. A façade that is increasingly needing new makeover?
There have been many expression of concerns expressed regarding Balinese productivity. As viewed from which perspective, western perfective or the Balinese more laid back and relax view of life? Many people come to Bali either for holiday or to live because life there is less hectic and yet when they start to build a business, they expect the locals to adopt that rat race pace of life these people left behind. Why? Is the work life balance only reserved for the well off and rich? I understand – business productivity doesn’t mix with work and family life balance – right?
Education is indeed one of the solutions for many of the problem. But, where to start reforming and improving the standard of education? The curriculum? What good is a great curriculum if teachers aren’t able to properly teach because of lack of training and provided with proper resources? Improving the standard of the teachers? How to motivate real passion for teaching if teachers aren’t paid adequately, when they often have to have a second job to meet the cost of living and respectable standard of living? I am the product of the state education system in Bali – well at least until high school. For the resources available to teachers and students and despite the lack of many things, it was a pretty good education, despite lacking academically. When I was presented with the opportunity to study in Australia, I had a real concern if I was going to last studying there, let alone achieve anything. Despite of the lack of ‘real’ learning of how to think and mastery of the English language, I managed pretty well and did rather good. Education and ability to think are not merely something to learn at school – everyday is a learning process.
Lastly, sorry if it is a bit rambling
Kadek
Also, why is it that when such issues and problems facing Bali are being put forward, it is only addressed to the Balinese? Why not to the people living in Bali? Are these people not matter, are they not contributing to the problems, are they not part of the solutions?
Indeed, crime is on the increase in Bali. But where is a discussion of how and why this is happening? Is this a problem created by Balinese alone? Have the Balinese gone so desperate that crime is a more suitable solution to joblessness as compared to doing the odd hard labouring jobs? Or is it also related to increases in population settlement and migration from other parts of Indonesia (and or Bali) resulting in lack of proper employment opportunities and lack of respect for the place they adopt as their new homes? I was at the Gilimanuk terminal one time and watched as people embarked from the ferry. What was shocking to watch was, that there were guys on motorbikes waiting there to ‘pick up’ confused girls – girls who simply came out of the ferry with nothing other than the clothes on her back and a cardboard box suitcase, looking confused and disoriented, they succumbed to the harassments and sweet talks of these guys. Where do these girls end up? ‘Cafes’? ‘Prostitution’? Is it only my imagination that many of the hardcore crimes are being committed by people not from Bali? When local people are raising such issues or realising that as more people from outside settle in, the crimes rate seems to be on the increase, is it a very illogical conclusion for the local people to make? Whether this is the case or not, has to be studied in details. Of course, there are many honest people who simply want opportunities and are contributing to the community.
Bali is certainly not Paradise – perhaps it is only paradise for the select few, for the majority it is a home, a place to make a living and to raise family, a place for every day struggle to make ends meet.
There is now the problem with imported food and drinks. While I can understand the need to provide these products to tourists, I ask the question how is Bali to benefit if all the food and drinks that tourist and other products needed for tourists consumption are largely based on imported goods? How much of these will have real benefits to the local people (other than those lucky enough to get employment in this area)? I am not saying that there shouldn’t be any imported goods, because these added extra attractions for tourists to come and enjoy their stay.
Construction and labour jobs are done mainly by outsiders because they are willing to accept lower pay as compared to Balinese workers. How many times have this point being raised here in this forum? Many times, it is simply a matter of maximizing profits and reducing costs. Many states here to use Javanese for hard labouring jobs when doing construction or building works, as they are cheaper. How do you expect the young generation of Balinese to aspire to trade and construction jobs when it simply doesn’t give any good income or rewards?
Everything now is about the individual, making more profits and reducing costs, foreigners wanting to build in Bali do this, hotels and employers do this also?, and even Balinese farmers do this. It is simply cheaper for them to hire rice harvesters from Java as compared to hiring a Sekaa Manyi from Bali. Why would young Balinese people aspire to be part of Sekaa Manyi if they think – they only have to think, that with their high school education or diploma in tourism, this will somehow provides a better way to make a living? Unlike in the west, where employment in the menial jobs in the hospitality industry don’t require formal schooling and is merely part time jobs that pay pretty good, in Bali, young people flock to study diploma of tourism and hospitality so that they can gain employment in a hotel – so they can learn the proper way of folding blankets and how to wash dishes in the kitchen? Is this another sign of the bad educational standard in Bali?
I don’t think Balinese are allergic to hard works and manual jobs. Simply provide a bit more reward for these backbreaking jobs, and then you will find that people are still willing to do these kinds of jobs. You only have to go to local markets to see there are many who make their living by being a buruh – women carries heavy baskets full of produce on their heads and they get a ‘tip’ for their hard work. Should government employees work harder? Perhaps and maybe they should. Or are these employees simply reflecting or putting as much efforts as dictated by their low wages?
Many people benefit from tourism in Bali, but many only face the negative consequences of rising costs of living. How are farmers, who meticulously labour in the fields and create those nice rice paddies and ‘manufacture’ the views marketed as ‘products’ to attract tourists, benefits from tourism? Has there been any fund either collected and set aside to reward these farmers? NO! Hotels and villas are being built to maximise such views, but little thought is given on the plight of these farmers. Bali is a small island with very limited natural resources and limited natural attractions. But there have been little effort made to conserve the little it has – the rice paddies, the riparian zone of the rivers, the environment – not much is currently coming from the government and not much is coming from the tourism industry either.
I heard sometime concerns and complaints made that Balinese workers or employees are not so good for supporting business productivity as they often take days off – far too often. How many weeks a year are allocated for annual leaves for these workers? Not many know or even enjoy real holiday – not like what people in the industrialised and developed countries enjoyed and take for granted. Balinese (especially those that still follow Hinduism and have obligations to their Balinese traditions) are in real dilemma. On one hand, they have to meet their employer’s expectation and commitment to their workplace, which usually require strict timetable and not much flexibility. And on the other hand, they are also required to be part of their community, their banjar – be part of volunteering to prepare ceremonies, temple festivals, and the various and many religious and cultural Holidays Balinese have invented and deemed important since centuries. Unless they want to risk loosing their job, they often have to forgo obligations in the banjar and pay a fine, instead of missing a day at work. Is there any real understanding and support to allow Balinese to still continue their traditions and culture, specifically from the tourism industry that have used and market these traditions to attract tourists? Or are the culture and traditions seen only at once as commodity and side attractions for tourism and at the same time hindrance to productivity and progress? Are workers from outside the island hired to provide more certainty and fill the gap the Balinese left to fulfil their traditional obligations? For sure, tourism has provided income to many Balinese and allows them to continue and fund various elaborate ceremonies, but is there real conscious effort made to do more?
There are many people here who are not in support of religion, which is fair enough, and may think that the Balinese people will benefit and progress only once they release themselves from their strong connection with their religion and ancient customs? However, aren’t these also the attractions and the same things that make Bali that little bit different and perhaps rather unique? Or do I simply believe in the same rhetoric that have been told and sold to countless people for decades – the manufacturing of the paradise of Bali? An image that is increasingly hard to maintain. A façade that is increasingly needing new makeover?
There have been many expression of concerns expressed regarding Balinese productivity. As viewed from which perspective, western perfective or the Balinese more laid back and relax view of life? Many people come to Bali either for holiday or to live because life there is less hectic and yet when they start to build a business, they expect the locals to adopt that rat race pace of life these people left behind. Why? Is the work life balance only reserved for the well off and rich? I understand – business productivity doesn’t mix with work and family life balance – right?
Education is indeed one of the solutions for many of the problem. But, where to start reforming and improving the standard of education? The curriculum? What good is a great curriculum if teachers aren’t able to properly teach because of lack of training and provided with proper resources? Improving the standard of the teachers? How to motivate real passion for teaching if teachers aren’t paid adequately, when they often have to have a second job to meet the cost of living and respectable standard of living? I am the product of the state education system in Bali – well at least until high school. For the resources available to teachers and students and despite the lack of many things, it was a pretty good education, despite lacking academically. When I was presented with the opportunity to study in Australia, I had a real concern if I was going to last studying there, let alone achieve anything. Despite of the lack of ‘real’ learning of how to think and mastery of the English language, I managed pretty well and did rather good. Education and ability to think are not merely something to learn at school – everyday is a learning process.
Lastly, sorry if it is a bit rambling
Kadek
Kadek, as always, I enjoyed reading though your post. Like others, I had held back from commenting partly because so many issues were raised by Susi in order to assemble her full picture. But then you say:
Thorsten and Tintin have debated the cholera issue. So let me home in on just one other issue - the traffic accident deaths. Susi says:
We discussed this on this forum last year here:
balipod.com
If we can believe the Bali figures, and yes there is more than 1 death per day, then we find that:
So if these deaths show that Bali needs a "system reboot", then it is not alone. In the US, around 40,000 traffic deaths per year makes 9-11 look almost insignificant - yet you can argue that incident has re-shaped the world. Meanwhile, traffic deaths continue without any "war on whatever".
Kadek said:
Thorsten and Tintin have debated the cholera issue. So let me home in on just one other issue - the traffic accident deaths. Susi says:
We discussed this on this forum last year here:
traffic deaths in the past 5 months
Bali- reports that 222 people have lost their lives on Bali's roadways in the past 5 months, underlining the tragic consequences of failing to follow traffic rules and drive carefully on the Island's roads and streets.................................................. Anyone else afraid to hit...
balipod.com
If we can believe the Bali figures, and yes there is more than 1 death per day, then we find that:
So if these deaths show that Bali needs a "system reboot", then it is not alone. In the US, around 40,000 traffic deaths per year makes 9-11 look almost insignificant - yet you can argue that incident has re-shaped the world. Meanwhile, traffic deaths continue without any "war on whatever".
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey Ron,
It's because 40,000 aren't all dying in one pop. Cumulative effect is never so dramatic besides, accidental traffic deaths could never be as powerful a springboard for expanding political agenda as the purposeful mass murder committed on 9/11/01.
Don
It's because 40,000 aren't all dying in one pop. Cumulative effect is never so dramatic besides, accidental traffic deaths could never be as powerful a springboard for expanding political agenda as the purposeful mass murder committed on 9/11/01.
Don
Yes Don, you are right! And we just get used to traffic accidents and maybe "tune out" a bit.Sumatra said:
But I still think that Susi's use of Bali traffic accident figures to bolster her argument that Bali is in big trouble and needs a "system reboot" is off the mark.
And as noted elswhere on this site, the way road deaths are measured in Bali (and Indonesia) is far more, shall we say, generous than it is elsewhere. If measured the same way it is in th west, it would be quite a bit higher.
That, plus the fact that, as also noted elsewhere, not all deaths on the road, ie. pedestrian, rural, make the system here.
I thought so, too. I also applaud some of Kadek's points as an attempt at a rebuttal, given that she is a Balinese.
I disagree with Suzi's own website pointing to links promoting The Yak, for example. Makes my brain buzz a bit and lights flash in my head that spell 'hypocrisy'.
Bambang, like Kadek, make some very salient points. I wish that more people regard the seriousness of the issues raised with the respect they deserve. And contribute in an appropriate manner.
Hi Bambang,
You've got the wrong end of the stick on many points. Facts wrong, too. I'm not an interior decorator, for starters.
Please stop by my office for a coffee next time you're in the Petitenget area, would love to meet you and have a chat. I'm usually around after lunch until about 7pm Monday through Saturday. It's at Jalan Oberoi 17, next to Reflections restaurant, behind the (nascent) new art gallery.
If there's a black car with a poleng tire cover in front, I'm in! See you soon.
Cheers,
Susi
You've got the wrong end of the stick on many points. Facts wrong, too. I'm not an interior decorator, for starters.
Please stop by my office for a coffee next time you're in the Petitenget area, would love to meet you and have a chat. I'm usually around after lunch until about 7pm Monday through Saturday. It's at Jalan Oberoi 17, next to Reflections restaurant, behind the (nascent) new art gallery.
If there's a black car with a poleng tire cover in front, I'm in! See you soon.
Cheers,
Susi
Oh, about the cholera outbreaks, it's a fact. Cholera is a "gastrointestinal infection". The papers reported it as such, without mentioned the specific pathogen. The same thing happened during the first weeks of the rabies outbreak in Ungasan which has spread quickly to neighbouring areas. There were four deaths, and when I researched the details a bit, it was obviously, without a doubt rabies. The papers and health officials at Sanglah reported it (emphatically) as "brain inflammation". Rabies victims die of brain inflammation. So again, and perhaps rightly so, generic descriptions were used to mask specific disease outbreaks which could cause concern, and even panic, particularly in a tourism-driven economy.
I wrote about the rabies outbreak to a number of influential people and institutions before rabies had been mentioned, and before any mention had been made in the non-Indonesian language press. WIthin a week, the true nature of the problem was admitted allowing aggressive public efforts to contain it to begin.
There was recently a small outbreak of "muntaber" (violent vomiting and diarrhea) in rural Tabanan. This outbreak may also have been cholera.
Personally, I think it is better to be safe than sorry later, when identifying health problems accurately despite their potential impact on tourism.
Cheers,
Susi
I wrote about the rabies outbreak to a number of influential people and institutions before rabies had been mentioned, and before any mention had been made in the non-Indonesian language press. WIthin a week, the true nature of the problem was admitted allowing aggressive public efforts to contain it to begin.
There was recently a small outbreak of "muntaber" (violent vomiting and diarrhea) in rural Tabanan. This outbreak may also have been cholera.
Personally, I think it is better to be safe than sorry later, when identifying health problems accurately despite their potential impact on tourism.
Cheers,
Susi
Well well well........Suzi's comments???
Yes many of her observations are troubling - but not all are correct.
I'm not going to go point for point on all but I will address the lazy Balinese comments. I build professionally here! My home building crew is ALL BALINESE! And I have very little difficulty in finding willing Bali labor to do just about anything. And as daily reminder of work ethic I need only watch the farmer who tends his agri land next to my house; he's a 60 year-old non-stop working machine who would put most to shame, and he's happy-go-lucky to boot. I consider my self blessed to be around him and his family.
And the last road fatality report I read (JKT Post I think) was for year 07 and it was a little over 400 deaths - everyone here is on MCs so the figure seams understandable to me, especially considering the nature of Bali life is street life.
When you consider that the system of governing here is primarily by community you might understand the difficult nature of addressing province and island wide issues. For instance I think Ubud itself has 9 Banjars. Add the fact that for locals taxes are nearly non-existent - any rapid change to that would be hard to enact for numerous reasons - and you may understand that problem solving is not so easy here.
It's easy to point out the obvious (and to over state and over dramatize) a bit more is required to understand the situation. A french friend of mine puts it this way - tragedy here is on the street for all to see, back home we sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist!
We can do our small part individually and promote progress to those we speak with. Positive change will happen, but a little slower than Suzi may want.
Yes many of her observations are troubling - but not all are correct.
I'm not going to go point for point on all but I will address the lazy Balinese comments. I build professionally here! My home building crew is ALL BALINESE! And I have very little difficulty in finding willing Bali labor to do just about anything. And as daily reminder of work ethic I need only watch the farmer who tends his agri land next to my house; he's a 60 year-old non-stop working machine who would put most to shame, and he's happy-go-lucky to boot. I consider my self blessed to be around him and his family.
And the last road fatality report I read (JKT Post I think) was for year 07 and it was a little over 400 deaths - everyone here is on MCs so the figure seams understandable to me, especially considering the nature of Bali life is street life.
When you consider that the system of governing here is primarily by community you might understand the difficult nature of addressing province and island wide issues. For instance I think Ubud itself has 9 Banjars. Add the fact that for locals taxes are nearly non-existent - any rapid change to that would be hard to enact for numerous reasons - and you may understand that problem solving is not so easy here.
It's easy to point out the obvious (and to over state and over dramatize) a bit more is required to understand the situation. A french friend of mine puts it this way - tragedy here is on the street for all to see, back home we sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist!
We can do our small part individually and promote progress to those we speak with. Positive change will happen, but a little slower than Suzi may want.
It is easy indeed - - precisely because there are so many problems to list. That's worrying.
I do make meaningful contributions to solving them. And I do a lot of reasoning and analysis, actually, although I could certainly do more, time allowing.
Not really.
It's not an attack, and the above statement is accurate.
I don't believe that.
Well, actually it probably could, but I'm nowhere near suggesting that it should. At any rate, Bali in some ways is, and long has been, separate from the rest of the country.
So I don't think this is accurate.
Bali isn't a Daerah Istimewa and I don't know what special status it has as a province. Does it have a special status? I don't know that it does.
Does it get more infrastructure investment? I'm not aware of that.
Regional autonomy applies throughout the Republic. I don't know of any autonomies Bali has that aren't granted to other provinces as well.
Bali is one of the most prosperous provinces in Indonesia. For example, the per capita income of Gianyar Regency in 1999 was the highest in Indonesia. Car and motorbike ownership levels are the highest in Indonesia. And so on and so on.
Where that prosperity goes, and who it benefits are issues that trouble me a great deal.
I discussed in many articles the problems of poverty in Bali and in this piece I was trying to bring attention to the painful irony of economic inequality in Bali. Emotionally, I find it difficult to see abject poverty in such close proximity to tremendous wealth and luxury to the point of excess.
Bali does have an abundance of luxury, perhaps an overabundance. I spent several months two years ago, circling every appearance of the word "luxury" in all of the island's tourism and property magazines I could get my hand on. It was interesting. The feeling I came out with was that "luxury" is like a new mantra. But this is tangential . . .
If you read the "Bali Blurbs" pieces on my blog, you'll see an overabundance of luxury is engulfing south Bali like a tsunami. Jumeirah, Raffles, the rest of the Pecatu development, Bulgari Residences, Alila Tanah Lot, Alila Ulu Watu, The Banyan Tree, The Outrigger, Ferragamo Resort, W Resort & Spa, shopping centers, nightclubs, two new 18 hole golf courses, and more are in the process of being built here. And it goes on and on and on.
I didn't say there is an abundance of luxury for everyone, just an abundance of luxury.
I see large elite commercial construction projects going up at a dizzying rate. We now have the huge Carrefours shopping centre, the new Hypermart, and two new gourmet supermarkets in south Bali. Hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, showrooms and villas are going up on almost every empty patch of land. It's a staggering amount of investment.
What I was trying to express was, "With all this money, all this investment, all of this economic activity, how can it be the the lot of the middle to lower classes is so bad?"
I don't not believe in "trickle down" economics, strictly speaking, and this is proof enough.
the inference being that corruption is syphoning off all of the tourism profits and leaving very little for Bali.
A lot of people say that. I certainly didn't. I think corruption is eroding value in many ways. Where the wages of corruption go is irrelevant, buthat most corruption here is local, and the value it extracts from the economy is local, and the proceeds from it are in local pockets.
That is exactly where almost all of the luxury is, and the prosperity too (but it's actually a little bit more spread around).
I'm not sure the fashion boutiques are largely unpatronised. I don't think they are.
See above.
High-skill, professional, and executive salaries here are lower than in Jakarta and some other urban centres in Indonesia. Construction workers are lower paid here than in Jakarta.
I don't understand how this relates to what I've written. If Bambang is trying to say that tourism is "inorganic" as opposed to "organic" developments of other kinds, and therefore a bad thing in general, I'm not sure I can figure that out. And I can't quite see what kind of a model society Bambang is pointing to here, or what is being suggested. It might be that he is opposed to large-scale outside investment, which makes some sense. But it's not very clear.
He seems to think that I'm against "organic development," although I don't know precisely what that includes and excludes.
That isn't accurate.
I don't know which two ways he's thinking of here.
BTW, in almost all problem-solving, the only solution is to have things, in a sense, both ways. All-or-nothing approaches don't work very well, except perhaps in warfare.
I think where Bambang and I differ is that he sees some over-reaching two-sided conflict taking place, while I see a lot of complex and contradictory points of conflict. He seems to think in terms of one point of view being the right one, and in terms of a cohesive dominant point of view that is opposed to it.
I don't see a cohesive dominant point of view anywhere I look in Bali. I see many different points of view, and many different groups with with many different values, which cause a tremendous number of points of conflict and potential conflict.
We're going to have to find ways to "have it both ways" to resolve all of these diverse and complex issues. More than "both ways," I expect. We will probably be better off if we can work out how to have it "many ways." And (sorry for being so abstract), but I think it's not only possible, but essential to learn how to do this.
Bhutan did very well with this. From a pragmatic point of view, it is a strategy worth considering. If more revenues can be generated with less environmental impact, and less investment, I think that sounds like something worth looking into.
I don't see the logical connection here. And I don't have an interior decorating business.
Increased quality and price of the tourism product could create the same amount of economic benefit, with less degradation to the natural and social environment.
There's no logical connection between promoting higher-quality and higher-ticket tourism and Balinese needing to open five star hotels and restaurants. Quite to opposite, if you reason it through all the way.
The quality of the tourism product is not dependent on the hotel, but what is outside of it. If what is outside is polluted, chaotic, dirty, unappealing visually, flooded, jammed with traffic, strewn with rubbish, noisy, crowded, and dangerous, then the tourism product is not a quality one and cannot command a high price.
This isn't an accurate statement.
This is not an accurate statement.
It occurs to me that Bambang thinks I'm a tourism evangelist. I'm not. I haven't got a strong opinion about whether tourism is a "good thing" or a "bad thing." There are plenty of good arguments both ways, and in general, I've tended more to be emotionally anti-tourism rather than the opposite.
For me personally, tourism is neither good nor bad for my wallet, so I'm certainly not influenced by economic self-interest in relation to tourism and what it does.
I'm not sure it makes sense to be "pro-tourism" or "anti-tourism" in Bali today. No more sense that it makes to be "pro-rain" or "anti-rain."
I'm not sure this is accurate, I doubt that it is.
This is not accurate.
Quite the opposite. My vision sees stable numbers of rooms in Bali, with a comprehensively better quality tourism product inside and outside the hotels. I am dreaming of clean government, rule of law, a functioning system of taxation and public services, a healthy diversified economy, good short and long-term urban planning, a rehabilitated and protected natural environment, adequate public transportation, improved public health and high-quality free education available equally in all areas. This is not impossible. It might seem so at the moment, but I believe it can be achieved.
I have for at least the past ten years advocated a building moratorium in Bali - - at least until comprehensive island-wide urban and space planning, and the means of enforcing and maintaining these plans, were in place.
The San Juan Islands, where I spent my summers as a child, became a wildly desirable destination for vacationers and for building expensive second homes. Real estate speculation and development started to ramp up. As the type of problems that Bali faces started to loom on the horizon, a building moratorium was declared, that lasted a number of years, until the islands put together an effective and well-thought out set of land use and planning regulations with a long-term view. The interests of many diverse groups were given voice in deliberations and decision making. The result is that now, more than a quarter century later, the San Juan Islands are in good shape, and the quality of the experience, the "magic" that originally drew people there is intact enough to keep them coming. The natural environment is in admirably good condition, as is the social, cultural and architectural environment. The building moratorium allowed for this to be possible.
Perhaps it could be enough, perhaps not. I don't advocate increased dependence on tourism, quite the opposite. With improved education, training, and other public services, members of this society would have the opportunity to choose from a far wider spectrum of possibilities for making a good living.
This isn't accurate, and the logic doesn't scan.
I think the last statistics I read indicated that about 20% of the workforce is employed in tourism, but about 80% of the island's economic activity is related to tourism directly or indirectly.
This isn't accurate.
They certain have been characterised in this way. But not yet by me. I haven't even thought yet about how you could measure "laziness" and then compare one group of people to another with a "laziness index".
Exactly my point.
And I would like to make another observation here. In the village where I live, and in others I have lived in, and spent time in, there are many parents who complain to me, even to the point of tears, about the fact that their sons don't have jobs, that they don't work, that they just cruise around on their motorbikes, stay out late drinking arak, and come home surly and demand food and care from their parents and their wives. These complaints match my own observations just looking around town.
I often discuss this situation further with the parents, who are usually around my age, with children in their twenties and thirties. Again and again they tell me that they have tried to get their sons to work, even found work for them, or created work. They set up small businesses for them, or bought them cars since the sons said they wanted to be drivers. The sons got bored running a DVD shop or warnet or whatever, and just stopped doing it. The sons crashed their cars, or failed to get any guests, or didn't take care of their cars, and the cars were parted out or sold. The parents found the sons hanging out at bars and cafes at night, and not getting up in the morning. The sons were sent to computer classes and stopped going. The sons were sent to English classes and stopped going. The sons wouldn't help the family on their land, wouldn't help in the fields, wouldn't raise some pigs or cows. This is not just a few families, this is a commonplace household drama in Bali. I suppose Bali isn't any different in this respect than, say, other "developing areas", or than economically-down urban areas in European or American cities.
I made that point, too. That's precisely the point of my piece.
It's not ridiculous.
Certainly it should, as well.
Exactly. And rightly so.
Private health care is a lucrative industry. And it's not funded by governments, so the Bambang's statement here is irrelevant.
I haven't made up my mind whether large-scale elite private health care facilities are "good" or "bad", but they certainly are part of a lucrative business sector, which also provides incentives for improved medical education, skills transfer, research and training, which are of benefit to the public sector in the long-term, as an added benefit.
The private health-care industry could be one for Bali to develop, in order to make it less dependent on the tourism sector, and to broaden its economic and skills base.
I also underline the fact that lower quality of health care causes money to go offshore, when people go to foreign countries to purchase the care they want because it is not available at home. That is, in a way, a type of "import-dependency".
I agree completely.
That's not accurate.
First, it's not an exaggeration. (I can dig out the receipts from my last trip to Yangon if I still have them, or email some of my friends there to run down the road and check some prices.)
I have tried to add something to the ongoing discussions about the impacts of the Minister of Trade's implementation of new programs for importing food and beverages. Many aspects of the issue have already been discussed at length. It's not the crux of the matter, but one aspect I think it is still relevant is the aspect of cultural value surrounding wine. Also, the expectations of high-end leisure and business travellers in relation to beer, wine and spirits, and the way that this affects their impressions of a place.
I mentioned wine prices in Burma because it seems so unlikely, so absurd, and yet true, that wine is sold far cheaper there than it is in Bali. I mentioned Singapore, because I read about a carefully-thought-out policy there for promoting enology to add value to the Singapore experience, and to the cultural sophistication of its people. Interesting, I thought. Tax on wine is high in Singapore, but not ridiculous. Revenues gained from these taxes are significant.
Their reasoning was that if people appreciated better wines, and saw value in paying for them, these tax revenues would increase, even without an increase in wine importation or consumption. And if people spend more of their money on highly taxed goods (like wine), rather than lower-taxed goods (like movie tickets), a higher level of total taxation has been achieved, voluntarily, and everyone comes out slightly better off, or so the story goes. I found this subtle, unusual, and well-reasoned approach interesting.
That's inaccurate. This would be more accurate:
"In Susi Johnston’s world, Bali could remain a preferred destination for the moneyed and educated elite, and for people who enjoy quality and expect to find food and beverages of a global standard readily available when they are on holiday, and might be better off for it."
We should all avoid being lazy, or corrupt or ignorant, as a general rule, don't you think? I do. Or at least try not to be too lazy, too corrupt, or too ignorant.
Is your name supposed to be Makan Tidur? It looks a little bit odd in its present form. Tried to read all of your post but it was a bit long and tedious. Sorry
Jimbo said:Is your name supposed to be Makan Tidur? It looks a little bit odd in its present form. Tried to read all of your post but it was a bit long and tedious. Sorry
Suggest you try a little harder Jimbo as there is much worth reading in them. But I guess some folks have a short attention span. Myself I'm a sucker, for well argued and well thought out thesis and commentary, even if I don't agree with it (and there is much in Suzi's pieces that I think many of us would agree with).