AUGUST, SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER...It Begins

[Roy]

These months are normally tied into “peak season” for terrorist activity. Anyone watching the news right now is watching the havoc in Britain and the complete shut down of incoming and outgoing flights.

It seems that even if terrorists are unsuccessful in taking great numbers of lives, the “boogey man” is able to able to impart so much fear, that the deer is frozen on the road, jacked by the headlights of an oncoming car. The networks surely love it.

Is this the new face of terrorism...a chaos by threat or “foiled” attempts to disrupt the normal daily activity and to extract endless dollars, euros, or whatever this will all cost? If so, it seems highly effective.

Today’s breaking news is monumentally distressing. Bali has suffered two outrageous arrows of great misfortune, and tourism has only recently begun to recover. Given today’s events, in the height of the tourist season, it remains a huge question...will Bali survive this world around it?

 

[Dasha]

why would'nt it?

 

[matsaleh]

Dasha, if you have something positive to add to the forum, you're more than welcome, but if you have nothing better to do than posting inane comments, better to give it a miss, huh? :roll:

Just a friendly warning. :!:

 

[Roy]

Mats, maybe I didn't read Dasha's post the same way you may have. Dasha wrote, "why would'nt it?"

I'm thinking that response was directly related to my question...."will Bali survive this world around it?"

I'd like to hope that Bali can, and will survive anything dished out to it. I'm just thinking that was what Dasha was relating.

 

[matsaleh]

You may be right Roy. I do hope so.

 

[Roy]

We'll see Mats, and I have no doubts about your ability to decide what's best!

 

[JAMIE]

Roy you have a good point . My wife wont leave the country at this point , she feels at risk leaving the USA . And this latest feasco in Britan will only concrete her mindset . And I hate to say it but others I know feel the same way . Im sure your correct in saying that the "foiled" plots are the "plots" . . And in our case , they are worked . iT'LL be sometime before my wife puts her children on a plane out of county ...

 

[Ilu]

I hope people will continue travelig and that Bali will survive this, if not the terrorists have wone

 

[balijohn]

During the course of my work here in Bali I meet tourists every day from many different countries. The overall effects of terrorism has, as was quite rightly said, placed fear in the hearts and minds of ordinary people (Terror) even by threat of action.

However I am pleased to report that I am meeting more and more people wo are resolute that terrorists will NOT interfere with their lives or stop them living the way that they want to live. These people are growing (slowly but surely) in number and on a personal level I think that the Balinese are shining examples of this strength of will. Always picking up the pieces and moving on.

I am a firm beleiver that GOOD WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL OVER EVIL

Bali will prevail and wheather the storms that batter it because the will of the people will overcome

 

[DCC]

Will Bali survive the world around it? Tough one Roy, short answer; yes! Will Bali survive Indonesia? Hopefully.

Any armchair analysis of the real danger of being killed or injured by a terrorist would indicate a very, very slim to none chance of that happening to travelers, and that's world-wide. But the mind is a convincing liar as it tells you international touring is more of a danger than your daily commute, and that kind of logic is what keeps the fearful afraid and makes them fickel - so don't build an industry around them. And mass tourism - is it as good for the soul as it is for the pocketbook. Bali will change as does the future of world travel.

But when I read of a poll stating that nearly 20% of muslims in Java support bombings in Bali as strike against the decadent West - that blows my mind. That's a massive supply of potential recruits. Truly Scary!

 

[dawnofjedi]

hey DCC...

I was just wondering about that poll you mentioned...where exactly did you read that? And what was the demographic of the people who were polled?

Although I do realize there are plenty of fanatic types in Java and other parts of Indonesia, I never imagined it would be as high as 20%! And if that poll is true, the real number must be even bigger, because there must be at least some people that do hate the West, but at least would not advocate the slaughter of civilians...

I have been to Java a number of times, and have many friends there...overall I must say my impression is that most people are not all that concerned with world politics in general, and furthermore that most people are quite friendly towards Americans (myself being one), and even tell me that they dream of going to America...well, I cant imagine that what they are really saying is that they dream of going to America in order to bomb the infidels!

So again, I am just wondering about more details on that poll, because whenever I speak on the topic with friends or anyone else, I always make it a point to try and defend the moderacy of the Indonesian people, and illustrate the fanatics as extreme fringe elements...but 20%, that just sounds a little frightening to me, and considering I have plans to continue returning to Java and exploring the rest of Indonesia, the veracity and reality of this poll is something that would be most meaningful to me...

let me know if you've got that info!

And as a direct answer to this post, although a vague one, I will just say that from my time living amongst the Balinese, resilience seems to be a prime characteristic, so I believe that although tourism may drop due to these vile terrorist acts that occur throughout the world, and they may indeed need to make adjustments, i have faith that they will indeed make them properly, and continue to live the peaceful and spiritual lifestyles that they have lived and do now live, for years to come...and I think thats really what is necessary in order for them to "survive"...but one thing more is, if indeed the method of 'Bali bombings' to strike at the West should ever come further into use, I have no doubts in the Balinese ability to defend themselves, as is a natural right in the face of terrorist assault...and history has shown time and time again the Balinese bravery, a feeling that can be felt even through simple conversations with them...

~Shakar~

OM NAMAH SHIVAYA

 

[Steadysteve]

Roys question is a little loose but I think I understand what he is asking, of course Bali will survive but I think that long haul mass tourism of the last few decades is for the moment at an end.
It is not just the terrorists threat but also the global pollution guilt police who are giving people second thoughts.
Also in europe many newer destinations are looking very attractive Bulgaria and Croatia to name two.
People have such choice that the slightest doubt about a destination and it gets crossed off the list for whatever reason, unfortunately Bali is caught up in all this.
Bali will survive but will have to find other ways of growing the economy, or cut back and accept a lower standard ( relatively ) of living, I hope I am wrong and tourist flood back soon but reading the travel sections of the Sunday papers Bali is not even mentioned any more in the UK as a holiday destination.
We are returning in Sept as we were there last October and vowed to the Balinese who we befriended that we would not let terror win but I know in my heart that if I had never been before I would be going somewhere else this year, that would be my loss but that is the way it is now, many freind have questioned our wisdom and they will not be pursuaded that any risk is minimal.
It's an old saying but life goes on, whatever.
That all sound a bit sad, I am so looking forward to comming back, I just hope all this has not wiped the smile off too many faces as it was the smiling that so charmed me, I see too many miserable faces in everyday life, (that sounds very selfish) .

I must get on and do some work

Cheers.

 

[matsaleh]

Re: RE: AUGUST, SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER...It Begins

I was just wondering about that poll you mentioned...where exactly did you read that? And what was the demographic of the people who were polled?

The figure was quoted in several articles recently.
Reuters:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/JAK94355.htm

Aljazeera:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... F56EA9.htm

Results of the study can be downloaded in the following pdf file:
http://www.lsi.or.id/file_download/18

 

[irma1812]

My God this poll's VERY scary!!

It's this sort of thing that makes me so ANGRY and sometimes even ashamed to be Indonesian!! :x

 

[Thorsten]

Don’t worry Irma,

this poll is simply crap like most of these polls!

Ask yourself what would be the intention to start a survey like this, I don’t have any doubt that 20 % of the 1200 people participating at this poll appreciated the terror attacks on Bali, but who are these people and are they representing 220 mio Indonesians ???

The guy, who started this poll got a huge publicity, but what is it worth ?
Never trust a statistic you don’t faked yourself, who said this?

Best regards
Thorsten

 

[Dasha]

Giving me the drum on being empty Mats…..

Haven’t been termed inane as a guest on a new forum before …

don’t reach for the gun yet Mats you’ll get to like me.

trust me im a doctor .. (Dr of bullsh** says the good lady woife)

DCC nailed it…. “Any armchair ….” Dawnofjedi “Most people are friendly to Americans” backed it….. luv ya work boys

Without testing and measuring it Id say 99 in 100 people I meet are cool. And I would say 99% of my attitude towards them defines them as cool .. ya with me so far?

whenever I get to Indonesia that figure doubles 2 to 1 great bloke factor in Indonesia compared to Australia .. Source Dasha’s book a facts

People who are out ta getcha are about 1 in 99 – so that gives ya plenty a scope ta put on your armour (smile and assistance to my brother .. .as ya do when you’re your brothers keeper)

and go right out into just about anywhere on the planet and co exist and have a beer witcha neighbor on his veranda of an evening and have no fear in crossing the world tryi’n ta do it

No ones getting blown up …. (the government’s onto it – you know the same ones that got the whole bomb thing started Howard Bush and Blair .. great intentions but could anyone have ever imagined the mess these guys have made of such a simple problem? The mind boggles)
And if they get another bomb to work in the western world (std stuff in Israel at present)… think about how many kids and mums and dads that carked it yesterday from lack of fresh drinking water across the world … (figures are staggering ….forget which article I read yesterday)

I can tell ya the last thing on the minds of these poor souls as each one slips away from hell on earth was will Bali survive

Luv ya work’n all Roy but the fear of these phycos and im talkin about the aussie and seppo ones (martin Bryant julian knight ivan milat Okalahoma bombers 25k gun deaths per year bla bla bla) are 1 in 99 – so ya know ya just get on with things like luv’n ya kids and family and all ya great bloody neighbors (some ya gotta put up wit .. I know) and put the threat of terrorism in perspective aye?

The percentage of terrorists that make up the 1 out of the 100 I hazard as a guess ..
Fairdinkum bugger all …
cos there’s GOOD in bad people too ya know

don’t quote me will ya

 

[Jimbo]

Dasha

I am trying hard to read what you write but I am having difficulty translating OZ into English. Can you help

 

[charlie]

i'm having trouble and i'm australian :shock: !!

 

[Roy]

On the topic of this poll, I am with Thorsten on this 20% bullshit. Taken at face value, this poll would mean that one out of five Muslims in Java felt that way, and I for one just don’t buy it one bit.

Polls are not unlike some reporters. Too many pollsters already have in mind what they want to “prove” by way of their statistical poll, and too many reporters already have their story in mind before it’s put to ink.

Irma, take this all with a HUGE grain of salt, and never feel ashamed to be an Indonesian. As Thorsten pointed out, that poll is not valid and it probably was conducted in Amrozi’s kampung.

My question, “will Bali survive this world around it?” was rhetorical. Bali has already survived Dutch colonial occupation, Japanese occupation, the communist purge, the economic crisis of the late 90’s, and two terrorist bombings...and all of that in less than 100 years of history!

Jimbo, I’m with you with your comments relating to bahasa Australian. In our oldest son Bima’s school, his English teacher is from OZ...so hopefully in time, Bima can translate yet another language for me!

 

[matsaleh]

If you check the "results" for the poll (s), both Aljazeera and Reuters misquoted the figure of 20%.

Part of the conclusion read:
"The use of violence for religious purposes has the support of one in ten Indonesian Muslims. This percentage seems small, but it is enough to provide mass support for the extreme behavior of individuals like Amrozi, the bali bomber, and his colleagues"

I agree with both Thorston & Roy that the poll must be taken with a grain of salt. The results are expressed less than scientifically and don't explain exactly how the questions were worded. Nor do they state if all respondents were asked the same questions. The manner in which a question is worded will, in most cases, dictate the response received!
:?