BaliLife
[quote]2. I am quite apalled how many of you discuss your staff and their personal habits PLUS using their names[/quote]
a. Ketut isn't my staff - if she were, she'd be fired within the amount of time it would take me to figure out how to say, "You're fired!" in Indonesian.
b. I don't know about Iluh's, but there are many many many Ketut's in Bali - I don't think her privacy is at risk.
DrBruce, there are many things I love about Indonesia and the Indonesian people - but to suggest we as "guests" aren't permitted to criticise our hosts is just nonsense. When Australians tell immigrants to be grateful they're allowed in the country at all and to not complain, we call them bigots - yet you suggest, even though we contribute to the Indonesian economy (just as an immigrant in Australia contributes to Australia), that we should be grateful they allow us to stay and not question anything?
ct
chilli
exactly Roy,, Kindness and respect is the key toward all people and that includes staff.
I have been to restaurants where people treat waiters as second class citizens and im always embarrassed, i have refused to go out to dinner with them again.
BTW.. on the topic of bidets, i noticed some in bali hotels which would be illegal in Europe because they had the water spout in the centre of the bidet.. (meaning can cause internal damage or miscarriage).
wishing you all a lovely day..
FreoGirl
[quote=Tina][/quote]
After being left no option but to adopt my partners custom I am totally converted. I must say when I got back home I now feel that western hygiene is not so clean.[/quote]
My experience also.
Tintin, you are obviously not offay with how it is done with a chaddock and water - I did not buy toilet paper whilst living in Indonesia, and neither did I play with my own poop.
mimpimanis
Milan - Iluh is my live in pembantu in Bali. She came over from Lombok with me. She has been with us 2 years and is a gem!
Thorsten
Many thanks Balilife,
That’s what I was always dreaming about, to get some insight in [i]the other side of society[/i], so I appreciate your generous offer and will be always grateful for this!
How about to include Milan in this offer, I bet she also would like to get introduced to this kind of sophisticated life style?
For the poo discussion, I see no need to spend a lot of money for a Japanese super high-tech, jet stream toilet seat, while there are so many suckers around, I prefer to have my ass licked afterwards.
Best regards
Thorsten
Adam
Another vote from me for the Indo way of doing things..... 8)
And I would have to say that my own [i]personal[/i] observation is that Indonesian people [i]generally[/i] have more hygienic [i]habits[/i] than your average westerner. The downside of course is the infrastructure that conspires to make these practices unhygienic. I do-as-the-locals-do sensibly while I'm in Indo and haven't been sick once in 18 trips.
On the matter of Pembantu's, I find the thought of having a servant abhorrent. My pembantu would never stink...cos i'd never have one. Clean your own sh*t up.
chilli
Hi Adam,
In the west we are taught that life is about "choices", obviously if one is very poor then their "choices" are limited.
It is okay to hire help, have cleaners, maids , gardeners, whatever one wishes to employ.
Why not share your money around if you can afford too.....
What grips me are people with money, who think they can treat others as less than. People who beleive that money = superiority.
If a person works as a maid/cleaner/baby sitter, then that is their job and they are to be respected for that and treated well. They are not slaves !!!
BaliLife, Money does not buy class, class is something which resonates within ones soul.
To have a noble spirit is the classiest of all !
Ipanema
[quote=Jimbo]
Toilet paper alone just dries and spreads fecal matter and does no cleam your backside. When I bathe I use soap and water to clean my backside and use my hand to do so.
If water is not used underpants tend to show stains............enough information for you :D
[/quote]
Jimbo
To the point and correct :lol:
mimpimanis
On the matter of Pembantu's, I find the thought of having a servant abhorrent. My pembantu would never stink...cos i'd never have one. Clean your own sh*t up.
Will you be doing all the housework Adam or your wife?
Iluh cleans my house - she has never had to clean my s***t!
She helps me with my two year old. She is happy to have a job. She has worked for the last 9 years paying for her siblings to get through school. She is paying for her brother to go to University now. If everyone thought like you she would have no work and her brothers and sisters would have no education.
We have three more staff in Lombok - but that is because we have a homestay and I am not allowed to clean up after the guests - even if I wanted to - which I dont!
Jimbo
In my home I have a directed shower attachment on a hose which cleans very well. I then use toilet paper to dry the area before washing my hands.....as all my family do.
Toilet paper alone just dries and spreads fecal matter and does no cleam your backside. When I bathe I use soap and water to clean my backside and use my hand to do so.
If water is not used underpants tend to show stains............enough information for you :D
As for general cleanliness Indonesians IMO are cleaner in their personal habits certainly more than the general populace in the west. However in the poorer area's like of running water and to many other facilities creats some of the diseases and infections.
Roy, I think you are wonderful :D Balilife so are you :D Daniel you have been off base in your recent Roy attacks. Hopefully you will get back on form soon.
Where is Markit when you need him :twisted: Any one seen my hygenic wooden spoon :D
Ipanema
[quote=Sanurian]WOW - what a thread.
Then again...what else can I add"
"[i]Shit Happens[/i]"
(Old Australian saying but I'm sure some may disagree.)
:mrgreen:[/quote]
It's a great Australian saying and I agree with it :lol:
BaliLife
Thanks Jimbo - I love you too, stains or no stains..
For the record, as it seems to be continually raised here, I don't believe maids are a subclass in any way shape or form.
For the first 2+ years of my sons life, we had a nanny/maid who was brilliant in every way. My parents treated her, as we did, as a member of the family. When she left us, I gave her a bonus, equivalent to over 200 times her equivalent monthly salary in Indonesia. This was in addition to the canadian award live-in salary she was paid. She was an incredibly smart girl - only 22 years of age when she started and it was 2 years of invaluable companionship. She's used it to buy several homes in her village, Bojonegoro, which I believe she rents out. It was not charitable - it was what I felt was the least we could do, given that she had nurtured my son for the first 2 odd years of his life. We miss her still. Unforunately, she's not visited since we've been in Surabaya, something that is apparently quite 'typical' - I don't know why. She cried when she left the kids. In any case, I bear no grudges and remain extremely grateful to her for her service.
Giving her this amount of money upset my in-laws, but I didn't and still don't care.
When I love, I love a lot - and when I detest, I also detest a lot - it's the 'Iranian' in me. She is welcome back with us at anytime, regardless of the anger my in-laws feel towards her.
I may not sound empathetic - but hey, sounding nice is easier than being nice.
Ct
Sanurian
WOW - what a thread.
I just popped back in to have a quick look after looking at the old Bali photo exhibition at the Art Centre in Denpasar.
I once saw a program somewhere that looked at "[i]How clean do you [b]think[/b] your kitchen is?[/i]" Of course it was an American show. And [b]no[/b] kitchen passed the tests. I also believe that there are far more bacteria in a person's mouth than what comes out of the other end. Is kissing more dangerous to your health than drinking toilet water?
I nearly died in a sea of shit, in a so-called toilet, at a night market on [i]Pulau Bintan[/i] (adjacent to [i]Pulau Batam[/i]). Suffice to say that I survived the ordeal, ([i]I still get occasional nightmares related to that[/i]).
There's a saying that a Westerner has really been "acclimatised" to Indonesia when he sees that the foot-prints on his toilet seat are his own. (Assuming he still has a "western toilet").
I forget who mentioned this but I think it's a fair statement:
[quote]...I am quite apalled how many of you discuss your staff and their personal habits PLUS using their names...[/quote]
Me. too.
Then again...what else can I add"
"[i]Shit Happens[/i]"
(Old Australian saying but I'm sure some may disagree.)
:mrgreen:
josefk
Its an old English saying too :D
Sorry couldn't resist...
bolli
The complete saying is
SHIT HAPPENS AND THEN YOU DIE. 8) 8) 8)
tintin
[quote] SHIT HAPPENS AND THEN YOU DIE. 8) 8) 8) [/quote]
This is part of what Rumsfeld said (He forgot the second part) when Baghdad was being looted after its "liberation" by the Americans. Someone should have told him the rest of the saying… :lol:
SG
Not having had any expereince doing it the 'Indonesian way' I'm not going to comment whether either way is better.
But it's pretty much a universal complaint from tour operators and many many tourists that toilets of Indonesia are often disgusting. Indeed the government has made the improvement of such a priority and a quick search of the Jakarta Post will provide evidence of the problem.
I for one usually gag when I go into most of the toilets at Bali or Jakarta airports, or indeed any other public loo in the country. They are filthy and even when an attendant is on hand, in a shocking state. Toilet hygiene is a major issue at least that that level.
Roy
[quote]I for one usually gag when I go into most of the toilets at Bali or Jakarta airports,[/quote]
Simon, I can't vouch for the toilets at the Jakarta airport, but at Ngurah Rai, I haven’t noticed the men's rooms being on the order of gagging at all. In the last two months I've been there four times, and each time the men's rooms were fine. Maybe I was lucky all four times and hit them right after they were cleaned.
On the other hand, I can't recall how many times back in the states I've gone into public toilets, especially at gas stations, and decided it was better go behind the station.
BaliLife
Sorry Roy - I disagree completely..
Toilet hygiene is the thing I'm most picky about, and GENERALLY I'd take a public toiet in the US, Canada and/or Australia any day of the week and twice on Sunday's over any public toilet in Bali, or anywhere else in Indonesia.
Sure, it's easy to cite a specific in example in a place where the above doesn't apply, but I'd say I'd use 80% of public washrooms / restrooms / toilets in the US, Australia and Canada. I would refuse to use 90% of the public restroom facilities in Bali and elsewhere throughout Indonesia.
Ct
Roy
You ought to take a road trip in the states some day...on highway 66. Then you can tell me about public toilets.
Other disgusting public toilets: Madison Square Garden, Grand Central terminal, Giant’s stadium, Boston Garden, most any subway station in any city in the US...all just from personal observations AND personal experience. Then again, I haven't been to the US in ten years, so maybe things are better now. :P
Don’t get me wrong, as I’m not defending Bali’s public toilets, nor do I care for them either. I just like to keep things in perspective. :wink:
