BaliLife
[quote]the gist should be, I have experienced it, or I have experienced it several times[/quote]
josefk - i made an observation based exactly on this - i.e. EXPERIENCE (granted my posting was harsh, typed in a moment of anger) and the usual forum 'do-gooders' have rushed to proclaim that offense has been taken..
ct
josefk
BaliLife,
My post just ^ there was not targeted at anyone in particular, mind you, you probably know that :)
My point was 'word it better' to have a 'better discussion'.
The main thrust of my comments were not at the original post, surely that is your personal experience so I can't comment on it...I have never experienced that particular situation.
It was directed against the 'toilet paper vs. mandi' discussion. So yes, partially at you.
:D
milan
It really shows where you come from, don't you, Balilife. I've suspected anyway from day one by reading your post so whatever words uttered, it doesn't surprise me at all.
And apparently my compliments given to Roy made YOU uncomfortable. I give credits when credits is due and I'm giving without reservations to anybody that merits but unfortunately, today, to do that it's not politically correct and apparently even makes a person uncomfortable? Besides, I didn't know that you also could feel how he feels. That's new! How sad is the world we live in. One has to be cynical, sarcastic or even mean and disgusting in order to be accepted.
I asked you with respect the first time and then the second time, but as you can see, this word does not apply in you vocabulary.
You just thrusted yourself in every post with your slanting opinions everytime but I did try to take you as a person that can reason for a while, unfortunately, your true colour comes out.
Just for a servant, you have to blast on every Balinese and even Indonesian. You live in Surabaya, so your perspective only from Surabaya regarding this and that gives you the authority to judge on every Balinese?
Grow up!
Thorsten
Balilife,
I cannot comment due to the (personal) problem you have with this Pembantu, Kadek told me that you are only 29 yrs old, so I suppose there is still a lot for you to learn?
Maybe your in-laws will point you into the right direction how to become a good [i]master[/i] for your [i]servants[/i], it needs a strong hand to get them hard working from 4:30am till 8:00pm 24/7 and probably simply cutting off wages wont do the job, so have you considered to spank her, physical punishment has been successful for centuries?
Be assured my comprehension and empathy, indeed it must be disgusting to come home from lunch at Conrad’s and find a dirty spoon, there’s no excuse for this in-acceptable fault and it calls for a punishment!
I only don’t understand why you are not able to deal with the BO of this stink bag, why don’t you use hosepipe to wash her, hey that should be also a lot of fun for your kids and she will learn the use of water?
Some years ago I was driving down the old gold path from Oureo Preto to Paraty in Brazil and I have learnt a lot about efficient slavery, after being tied to a pole in the sun for some hours, she will probably appreciate getting hosed down with cold water – you should try this!
Don’t even bother to think about all these stupid comments in regard to racism or the dribble about lack of respect – hey, you pay, you command!
Feel free to PM me in case you need some more hints how to deal with staff, the most efficiently procedures are not for public anymore these days.
Best regards
Thorsten
milan
Oh, you're a 29 year old boy. Still needs a lot to learn then. One never stops learning on any age.
So, here:
This is how civilised people would behave and fyi, you're a rabble-rouser.
[quote]Though shalt not expect to find things as thou hast them at home for verily thou hast left home to explore different things
Those shalt not take anything too seriously, for a care-free mind is essential for a healthy body
Thou shalt not let other expats get upon thy nerves, for one or both of you art likely to be transferred soon anyway
Thou shalt refrain from acting exceedingly high and mighty, for thou art the same person you were before you had maids and drivers
Thou shalt not buy everything you see; thou already hast a house full of things stored in your home country
Thou shalt not sit around and mope and feel unwanted or unskilled; there are many people and organizations who would be grateful for your donations of time and energy
Thou shalt not worry, for he that worrieth hath no pleasure
When in Rome, thou shalt be prepared to do somewhat as the Romans do.
Thou shalt not judge the people of a country by the one person who has given thee trouble.
Remember that thou art a guest in a foreign land, and he who treateth his host with respect shall be honored.
[/quote]
josefk
Yet another post gone down the route of 'tit for tat'...
Yet another post that had it been worded correctly from the start COULD have been yet another interesting discussion...but then again I am starting sound sound like a broken record...
Is it not possible AT ALL to put past grievances aside, momentarily at least, and have proper debates...obviously not me thinks.
My main comment is...there seems to be a lot of 'crap' written about a 'crap' subject, backed up by minimal 'crap' opinion and 'crap' research.
I never use the Indonesian way of hygiene even though I know it is actually more hygienic. I am not going to quote sources, do your own research (might have been useful for some of you BEFORE posting on this thread).
Might I suggest that if you have an opinion (a) base it at least on facts (come on a bit of Google research is not that hard surely) (b) base it on experience...and when I mean experience, that means you have actually 'experienced' it.
I think this attitude of 'I am in Bali more than you, my opinion is more valid' basically sucks...the gist should be, I have experienced it, or I have experienced it several times. Experience is a funny thing you know, I like the analogy of someone 'having' ten years experience, say at a certain workplace...have they learned something new every year, or merely repeated the first years experience?
So come on people apply your intelligence, your debating skills and your 'experience'.
I am not going to bother actually replying to the main topic of this thread...it would just be nice to have a proper discussion...and note that if you are being sarcastic, ironic, full of humour then the internet protocol is to put ...at the end of the sentence. Try it, it avoids unnecessary conflict...
:)
milan
Yeah, I'm having fun too.
Yep, Balilife, I agree with Roy again... :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Roy
Please forgive me Jose, but this has me literally rolling on the floor laughing. You say these comments are directed “against the 'toilet paper vs. mandi' discussion?”
[quote]Might I suggest that if you have an opinion (a) base it at least on facts (come on a bit of Google research is not that hard surely) (b) base it on experience...and when I mean experience, that means you have actually 'experienced' it. I think this attitude of 'I am in Bali more than you, my opinion is more valid' basically sucks...the gist should be, I have experienced it, or I have experienced it several times.[/quote]
How would you suggest one should search this under Google or Yahoo? What key words? :P As for the experience part, being that I’m a very regular guy, so, how does at least 3,650 times over the last 10 years sound? That of course being the Bali way, or mandi way. :lol: :lol:
I think that amount of "experience" would qualify me as an expert in this matter!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
One thing is certain...you'll never find me walking around with some toilet paper dangling from under my sarong! :lol: :lol: :lol:
josefk
Lol Roy!!!!
Errr maybe I was referring to the hygiene factor of using hand and mandi vs a roll of paper....and yes you will find that there are discussions/articles on the net that do discuss such crap topics... :lol:
Enough of talking crap anyway... :oops:
josefk
Damn it I just missed the opportunity to type ' so Roy has the crappiest experience here'... :twisted:
bolli
I have 2 comments to make on this thread
1. Balilife says in his FIRST post..
"Ok, I hope this doesn't become too controversial."
Yeah right, you thought everyone would just go "ooh yes, I so agree!!!"
2. I am quite apalled how many of you discuss your staff and their personal habits PLUS using their names.
Maybe they don't have their own computers or access to the internet but surely you could afford them a little more respect.
drbruce
What you're missing, I believe, is what you add that is positive about Indonesia. There are many aspects of Indonesia that are irritating or confusing or directly opposed to what we believe in, or were brought up in as non-Indonesians, but the fact is that this is their country to run as they will. If we live here, we live as guests.
Maybe I was brought up differently, but I always thought that guests should keep their opinions of their hosts to themselves.
mimpimanis
[quote]2. I am quite apalled how many of you discuss your staff and their personal habits PLUS using their names[/quote]
Whenever I mention Iluh in a thread, she knows what the thread is about. As soon as I read this one last night I told her about it. I often ask for her comments and thoughts and she knows that I post them and is fine about it.
I have nothing but good to say about Iluh!
drbruce
I guess that I should probably add this little story. Many years ago when we lived in Papua, my wife and I and my children (only two at the time) were in a small circular hut that the Dani from Illaga live in. The kids (raised predominately by their Indonesian mother) whispered to me, They smell Daddy. That they did. Pretty healthy body odor that comes from bathing in a river fed from a glacier and living in a house where the cooking fire is in the center of the room.My wife's advice was " Polite people don't talk about how people smell."
I thought it was incredibly humorous at the time, but perhaps it's fitting here.
milan
It is fitting, drbruce. Cute story!
Mimpimanis, what's Iluh?
Balilife, you say you'd stop...
chilli
let me see.. toilet paper is better than soap and water. NOOOO. soap and water is better than toilet paper. NO, the bidet is superior to just soap and water, but probably one of those Japanese digital push button flush, warm air, water wash toilets are better than the bidet ? No hands and no toilet paper.. hooray !!!!
Then Maybe, it depends on what one eats !
Really people, who cares ? Wash as you please,
Just in my opinion here, (laughing so hard my stomach hurts).
WHY ALL THIS FUSS ? WHY ALL THESE ARGUMENTS ?
I would like to know what about tooth picks , no maybe floss ? electric tooth brush or bristles..?
BaliLife
we use toilet seats imported from japan - you turn a knob on this side and a little spout connected to the underside of the toilet seat pops town and squirts the contaminated area with a solid stream of water - the operator can control how long they wish to wash the area. the user then uses toilet paper to simply dry the area. it's better than the traditional bidet as it sticks a "jet stream" of water right on the spot :wink:
i've seen them in many places in indonesia.
ok, seriously:
the problem i have with the cewok, or the mandi as you call it, is that the contaminated water that flows off (from the buttocks of the person excreting) is not 100% contained.. this is most obvious when you go into a squatting / floor level public toilet.. the floor is always soaked in water, much of which is somebody elses "poo juice" :shock: .. add to that that many indonesians use those facilities barefoot and then you have the scenario of everybody standing in each others fecal matter.. the containers are also very often ridden with black mould, which likely feeds off of all the goodies in the very fertile fecal matter it gets doused in every 1/2 hour.. am i missing something?
ct
BaliLife
ok, I'm out of this one. Seems as though washing ones behind is a sensitive subject and such definitely wasn't the subject of my initial post.
chilli
No dear BaliLife, your initial post was complaining about your helper and how dirty she is.
I understand that you are a young man.
But please, if your paid help isnt up to the job, perhaps have your wife talk to her and explain your concerns and help her to improve.
the working from 4.30 am till 8pm with so many days off a month ( i forget now)
made me truly sad.
We, (humans) should not take advantage of anyone.
We are all one.......
Roy
Chilli, one of my pet peeves is when I run into expats who require their house staff to wear matching uniforms. I never miss an opportunity to vocally express my feelings on that, and one particular time, it proved quite embarrassing.
We were being entertained by a German couple who not only required their Balinese house staff to wear matching uniforms, but also to wear photo ID tags. I kid you not. In addition to this, I felt they were both very rude, abrupt and just downright nasty to their staff.
I was so appalled, that forgetting the host was German, I just blurted out, “why not just tattoo a number on their wrists?”
Luckily that comment came after dinner and desert, so not all was lost. :lol:
