Terrorism rumours

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

First of all I'm VERY jealous of all of you living in what must be such an idyllic place most of the time. I moved from Sydney to Perth four years ago and fell like it expanded my horizons somewhat, but have always harboured a secret fantasy of moving somewhere completely alien to me.

But in the real world, first of all I have to visit, and we’ve booked to come for ten days at the beginning of February, which my wife and I can’t wait for.

As you may know, the Australian press has recently started up with more warnings of terrorism and the department of foreign affairs has issued the usual warnings about Indonesia and Bali, but I need unbiased information from people who know what the mood/state is in the country.

I’m certainly not one to let the six o’clock news scare me into not discovering the world, but we have what appears to be a credible source (the brother in law of a business associate who’s apparently high up in the Bali police) saying it’s quite serious and he wouldn’t travel there right now.

Any thoughts, tips, criticism, agreement etc is very welcome.

Thanks and merry Xmas.

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Merry X-Mas to you too.

I don't have the inside information that the CIA or similar organisations have about terrorism threats.

My mood? There was a heavy downpour on the road from Singaraja to Denpasar today. My car went through 30 to 40 cm of water now and then, but held up great.

I would like eating a Big Mac, and nobody keeps me from going in a McD.

Life goes on.

Like somebody else would say, "Come to Bali, the magic is indestructable".

But then, I am not not the CIA or have a "credible source".

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply Bert.

So there's no general 'feeling' of uncertainly or fear around Bali at the moment - any more than there'd usually be? it's just very hard to know who to believe and listen to, and I wouldn't have been surprised to learn the locals are laughing the stories off that we get over here.

What's the story behind your movie over there, by the way - if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Bert Vierstra]

I have met several expats the last few days, and the subject wasn't even mentioned, so no laughs...

Movie ?

Move you mean may be ?

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Nice read from the Jakarta Post:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailhea ... B01&irec=7

Jamie, a British expatriate living and working in Jakarta, said that his government could be held legally accountable should they fail to protect their citizens abroad through, among other methods, a travel warning.

"This is also a sort of moral obligation ... or the government could be sued for negligence," he said

 

[Roy]

Agree with Bert. Living here for some six years, thus the Denpasar riots, Bali bombing, etc., I worry more about the crazy price increases lately than I do anything else.

As a warden for the US Consulate office, I’ve even given up sending out the “warnings” I get on a periodic basis because they are all “sama sama”…avoid public places, don’t wear American flag emblems on your back pack, hide those USMC tattoos on your upper arm, and blah, blah, blah. If I get a really “hot” warning, be assured, I’ll be on the phone like a macaque on a banana.

Drew, you on the other hand, should take some solace in the way Oz handled the Bali bombing. Fact is, at that exact time, there was an American carrier battle group in the Indian Ocean, closer to Bali than even Darwin. Canberra got the “green light” and the US “stood station.” That pissed me off at the time, but in retrospect, it was unquestionably for the best in the long run. Given the extent of the burn related injuries, and the specific need for immediate burn related triage, OZ was the right choice…and what a great job they did! And by the way, the “green light” had nothing to do with Indonesia. Care to guess how many SAS were on board the pre dawn first flights into Ngura Rai?

You’re right of course about the OZ press. Hell, they even think all drug smugglers (from OZ), are being “set up” by the Bali police, drugs “planted” in their luggage. Sorry “mate” but I regard the OZ press with even less regard than I regard the Indonesian press. Take no offence, many of my closest friends, “mates” are, or “were” from OZ.

My advice, use your common sense, trust your gut and instincts, and have a bloody good time. Think of it this way. You, from Australia, live in the land of the most venomous and deadly creatures on earth…the funnel web spider, the brown snake, etc., etc. How dangerous can Bali really be?

 

[Guest]

Interesting article; seems par for the course for the Indonesian government.

So what do you do for a living over there, how long have you lived there? You don't feel at all worried at the moment (or think I should be)?

 

[Roy]

Interesting article; seems par for the course for the Indonesian government.

So what do you do for a living over there, how long have you lived there? You don't feel at all worried at the moment (or think I should be)?

Well, I guess that I, understanding the challenges facing the Indonesian government, viz, it being a relatively new democracy, incorporating some 15,000 unconnected islands, spread the distance of San Francisco to almost England, home to some 400 indigenous cultures (talk about a melting pot!), and once the most powerful ally of the US in all of SE Asia against communism, could have a current “bad rep” but let’s face facts. No other country out there is “squeaky clean” either!

Are we worried? You mean, us expats? In a word, no.

 

[Guest]

Terrorism and the bastard terrorists :twisted: wins when it stops us from doing the things we wish to do. Yes we do have to take notice of warnings to some degree although if we took every rumour to seriousley we would never leave our houses.
I still find it hard to believe Bali is not a safe place to visit and was suprised to read the post from someone on this forum who heard a rumour from high up in the Bali police force that Bali was at high risk from an attack. I suppose it depends on where you are in Bali and what you are doing. I mean myself personally i dont think i would ever feel totally at ease in a packed out nightclub in downtown Kuta after what happened at the Sari Club, although if i was enjoying a drink in a nice Warung in Ubud i would probably feel totally at ease. This is probably down to the fact that there is more chance of a seedy downtown Kuta nightclub from being targeted than a Warung/Bar in a sleepy backwater. Life must go on, although we must try and take some precautions i suppose.

Regards Sparky

 

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for your input. Sparky, I couldn't agree more, and no way am I going to let any political barrow (terrorist or US government... in other words, terrorist) stop me from seeing the world. I'd be more interested in seeing the 'real' Bali. If I want to sit in nightclubs I can stay home for much less.

Roy - no offence at all taken about your comments re; the media or Australian government. I hold them both in the same regard - low.

Just want to know what the locals/natives think - it's ALWAYS a different story from the media/government/military-industrial complex picture.

A warden for the US consulate - tell me more! I guess if you don't have reason to worry, nobody in southeast Asia does.

 

[Roy]

You can be sure the “natives” or locals are totally oblivious to travel warnings. They never hear of them unless they work in a hotel and management says something about it.

Anyway, Bali is really booked up this Christmas/New Years Season. Big news around Ubud is that Stanley Ho booked two 5 star hotels…yup the whole hotels, for his family and friends whom he flew down from Hong Kong.

Ah, warden. Yes, that only means I’m supposed to disseminate announcements and travel warnings like the one below which I guess I should have posted and e-mailed out to the other Americans in my area…

Re: U.S. Embassy Jakarta Travel Warning from December 17th, 2004


> Wardens: Please distribute this message to the Americans in your
> organization. Thank you.
>
> INDONESIA
> December 17, 2004
> This Travel Warning updates security threat information for Indonesia,
> alerts American citizens to security concerns during the December and
> January holiday period, and reminds travelers of the ongoing terrorist
> threat for Indonesia. The Department of State continues to recommend that
> Americans defer all non-essential travel to Indonesia. This warning
> supersedes the September 13, 2004, Travel Warning for Indonesia.
> The Department urges Americans who choose to travel to Indonesia despite
> this Travel Warning to observe vigilant personal security precautions; to
> remain aware of the continued potential for terrorist attacks against
> Americans, U.S. or other Western interests in Indonesia; and to register
> with U.S. Embassy Jakarta, U.S. Consulate General Surabaya or the U.S.
> Consular Agent in Bali. Registration facilitates the U.S. Mission's
> contact with Americans in emergency situations. Americans in Indonesia
> should maintain a low profile, vary daily routines, avoid crowds and
> demonstrations, and keep abreast of local news and developments that may
> affect the security situation.
> The Department reminds Americans that the terrorist threat in Indonesia
> continues and may increase over the December-January holiday period.
> Reports indicate that terrorists are planning attacks against a wide
> variety of targets. These attacks could occur at any time and could be
> directed against any location, including those frequented by foreigners
> and identifiably American or other western facilities or businesses in
> Indonesia. Bombings have occurred in the past during the Christmas/New
> Year's period.
> The potential remains for violence and terrorist actions against U.S.
> citizens and interests throughout the country. The Jemaah Islamiyah (JI)
> terrorist group has cells in several Southeast Asian countries, including
> Indonesia, and connections with al-Qaeda . A terrorist bombing outside the
> Australian Embassy in Jakarta on September 9, 2004, killed eleven and
> injured more than 180 people. An August 2003 terrorist bombing at a major
> international hotel in Jakarta injured several American citizens, and
> seven Americans died in a terrorist attack in Denpasar, Bali in October
> 2002. The U.S. government continues to receive information that JI and
> other extremist groups might be planning additional attacks against U.S.
> and other Western interests in Indonesia.
> U.S. Government travelers to Indonesia have been directed to avoid
> identifiably western hotels. Since security has increased at official U.S.
> facilities, terrorists could seek "softer" targets, including but not
> limited to places where Americans and other Westerners live, congregate,
> shop or visit, including hotels, clubs, restaurants, shopping centers,
> identifiably Western businesses, housing compounds, transportation
> systems, places of worship, schools, or public recreation events.
> The U.S. Mission in Indonesia restricts U.S. government employees' travel
> to certain areas of the country and, at times, denies them permission to
> travel to Indonesia. For the latest security information, contact a U.S.
> Mission consular office. The U.S. Mission can occasionally suspend service
> to the public, or close, because of security concerns; in these
> situations, it will continue to provide emergency services to American
> citizens.
> Sectarian, ethnic, communal and separatist violence continue to threaten
> personal safety and security in several areas. Over the past three years,
> domestically targeted bombings have struck religious, political, and
> business targets. In 2003, the Jakarta international airport, an open-air
> concert in Aceh, and other Indonesian government facilities were bombed.
> Americans should avoid travel to Aceh. Indonesia restricts foreigners'
> travel to that province; one foreigner was killed and another wounded in
> Aceh by security forces in the past year. Although Indonesia replaced
> martial law in Aceh with a state of civil emergency on May 19, 2004,
> Aceh's security situation remains highly uncertain.
> Americans considering travel to the provinces of Papua and West Timor
> should exercise extreme caution because of sectarian, ethnic, communal and
> separatist strife. Papua's on-going separatist conflict has the potential
> to become violent. In August 2002, two Americans were killed in Papua
> under as yet unresolved circumstances.
> Americans should avoid travel to Maluku, in particular the capital city of
> Ambon. Since April 25, 2004, sectarian violence has killed at least 40 and
> injured more than 220 people.
> Americans should avoid travel to Central, South and Southeast Sulawesi;
> those considering travel to North Sulawesi should exercise extreme
> caution. Violence in Poso and in neighboring areas of Central Sulawesi
> during October-November 2003 produced 19 fatalities. Central Sulawesi's
> general security situation remains unstable; bombings and killings
> occurred in late 2004 in Poso and Palu. A specific, credible terrorist
> threat to Western interests in areas of Central, Southern and Southwestern
> Sulawesi in May 2004 led many Westerners to evacuate those areas.
> The Philippine-based terrorist Abu Sayyaf Group poses an ongoing
> kidnapping risk/threat in areas near Malaysia and the Philippines.
> Americans can obtain information on travel and security in Indonesia from
> the Department of State by calling 1-888-407-4747 within the United
> States; or 1-317-472-2328 from overseas. Americans also can call the
> Embassy in Jakarta at (62)(21) 3435-9000, the Consulate General in
> Surabaya at (62) (31) 295-6400, and the Consular Agent in Bali at (62)
> (361) 233-605. American citizens should read the Department of State's
> Consular Information Sheet for Indonesia and latest Worldwide Caution
> Public Announcement <http://travel.state.gov/travel/wwc1.html>, both
> available at http://travel.state.gov.

 

[Guest]

I dont know about the rest of you, but after reading the warnings that Roy as Warden has handed on you would think Bali was on a par with downtown Falujah and Baghdad. Absolutely amazing really that there are any bloody tourists or ex-pats still on Bali. :? There again folks it is better to be warned of something and then make the decision yourself as to what you want to do i suppose than not to be given any warnings of possible terrorist attacks and end up dead. It sure is a crazy old world we live in, and do you know the ironic thing is folks that because of this most people would think that Bali would be one placeyou could count on escaping all the shit thats going down. Confused to say yhe least :? :? :? :?

Roy..Bert suppose you guys better start building trenches round your villages and have a sentry post built and perhaps install a couple of gun posts. BR Sparky
Merry Xmas and a Safe and prosperous new year to ye all folks....note the word safe :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Thanks for the tips, Spark.

If spam messages stay longer then 1 day on the forum you can assume I am death, and trenches didn't work.

Merry Xmas 2u2

(BTW My house in the midst of a 60% muslim population 8) )

 

[Sanurian]

I was brought up in Kangaroovia ('Oz') and I know that most Ozzies wouldn't give a rat's arse, so to speak, about travel warnings from anybody. Especially if they get in the way of holiday plans.

That's not to say that they're all stupid but there's no shortage of those types either (like everywhere - including Bali/Indonesia). Latest new bar staff around here (Sanur)... after they get through the 'How long you stay Bali - what your job - what your business - you like Bali ???' stuff, have been telling me about the latest warnings. It's like this, Made/Ketut/Nyoman/Komang/Ayu/Dayu/Bagus/Cok Lampu Pilip (me), etc...the 'new' bomb attack is supposedly aimed at a Hilton hotel, and this place doesn't look like it. If we all worried about terrorist threats too much, we wouldn't leave our homes even to go and buy another case of beer.

I figure Bali is about as 'safe' as anywhere else, given that most of the 'security measures' are just a joke. The concept hasn't really jelled with most Indonesians. They're used to complete incompetency - that's just normal.

I mean to say, has anybody crossed over from East Java to Bali lately and experienced the 'security checks' there? If you're on a motorbike, you can just pay someone a trifling amount of Rupiah and be on your way, bombs and all. If you're a bule (like me), driving a car, you get pulled over and have to flash your licence and maybe the car's registration papers. On a bad day, somebody might stick a mirror under the car, and that's about it. What if I was a terrorist and my bomb was hidden in the car boot, my big telephoto camera lens, under the car seat, in the engine's air cleaner, or wherever? No problem. When and if something bad happens again, the 'authorities' will simply perform a knee-jerk reaction, talk a lot, make promises they can't keep, and continue as usual. If they need some forensic know-how, they'll usually ring the Australians again because they're incapable of performing sophisticated tests themselves. They might have had the equipment once, but for sure, somebody's stolen it by now.

I had the pleasure of meeting a new employee in a bar/restaurant last night. It was her first day on the job. She quickly 'told' me she couldn't speak English and I wondered if it was because she's stupid, didn't go to school long enough or just plain lazy. She had to get someone else to explain to her what a 'pencil' was. Don't get me wrong here - I am fully aware of the inadequacies of Indonesian teachers who have to teach English as part of their job. I have a Balinese friend who graduated in English Literature from the government university in Denpasar and he'd be lucky if he could walk into a McD and order a double cheese burger (in English). And by the way, last night's waitress and I are still friends because she thinks I'm funny (plus I took some photos with a digital camera - that's always good for breaking down communication barriers, just like having a recording Walkman and play back what they just said - the eyes just get wider and wider).

I wish everybody here all the very best for the Silly Season, and now, I'm going to have another beer.

Against my better judgment, I'm going to post a controversial image related to Christmas. If, and when you look at it, please don't think too badly about me. It's a joke, right? The hardest part was trying to explain the concept to a Balinese (who has a sense of humour).





:roll:

 

[Bert Vierstra]

Against my better judgment, I'm going to post a controversial image related to Christmas. If, and when you look at it, please don't think too badly about me. It's a joke, right? The hardest part was trying to explain the concept to a Balinese (who has a sense of humour).

Don't mistrust your judgement agian. I deleted the picture.

(It was a crucified santa) It doesn't belong on a Bali site.

 

[Guest]

Re: RE: Terrorism rumours

...(Indonesia) spread the distance of San Francisco to almost England...

You filthy American Imperialist Pig, you've now taken over the Atlantic Ocean and all of its island-countries :shock:

Seriously, you must have meant NEW England. :wink:

 

[Roy]

Yup....that is correct. Width of Indonesia, 3,105 miles, distance, San Francisco to Portland ME, (New England), 3,220 miles.

Of course, for us 'ole Connecticut Yankees, the only England that counts is New England! :shock:

 

[Sanurian]

Sorry Bert

...if I have transgressed the bounds of human decency, yet again. I did mean the pic as a joke...some things are not all that funny, I guess. Although I'm not sure why. If we can't laugh at the incongruencies of human existence, what's left?

I'm still struggling with my own morality, of course.

Don't worry - won't happen again. (Been kicked-off enough from other forums, it's starting to get stale).

I apologise, profoundly.

Have a great Christmas.
:shock:

 

[Bert Vierstra]

I'm still struggling with my own morality, of course.

You should. If you stop struggling, I would kick you of the forum, or you would be declared enlightened. 8)

 

[Roy]

YO Bert! It's Christmas Eve. Time for a little huggy kissey under the mistletoe and surely, time for some reality:

http://www.sundream.com/~majapahit/imag ... 0Place.jpg