Minister of Justice, Yusril Ihza Mahendra, announced yesterday in Jakarta, plans to eliminate the free visa on arrival for 36 of the currently applicable 48 counties. Televised reports of this announcement specifically named the United States and Australia as two of the effected countries, citing their recent bad behavior, and in the case of the United States, the Minister specifically cited the discriminatory nature of US Immigration laws requiring fingerprinting, registration and photo Ids of Muslim men from certain countries, which included Indonesia. The names of the other 34 countries who will no longer be able to enjoy the free visa on arrival, which allows for up to 60 days to stay in Indonesia, was not announced. Also mentioned as reasoning behind this announcement were several cases of abuse of tourist visas, including charges of some foreign nationals meddling in domestic political affairs. While acknowledging the negative effect on tourism that this would have, particularly in Bali where tourism has yet to recover from the October 12 bombing, Minister Yusril stated that this decision has the backing of the Minister of Tourism. The Minister also declared that Indonesian national pride and dignity must far outweigh the benefits of tourist dollars.
More Potential Bad News for Bali
- Thread starter Roy
- Start date
Vincent OG
Member
Thanks to Roy for bringing this to our attention.
I do not know his source but a Jakarta Post article today (http://www.thejakartapost.com/headlines.asp) covers the latest announcement and you'll find plenty of background in achieve.
One ray of hope is that it is a proposal rather a definite plan. Such a change has been mooted since 1999 so maybe it’s hot air, maybe it’s not.
Not covered in the article is the previously proposed idea that the change will include reducing tourist visas from 60 to 30 days. This will make residing in Bali on a tourist visa untenable.
As for which countries will be retaining “free visas” I have the following list but I cannot remember the source;
Proposed to be granted visa free facility in 2003: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippine, Brunei Darussalam, Hong Kong S.A.R, Turkey, Tanzania, Peru, Morocco, Malta, Guam, Fiji, and Chile.
I do not know his source but a Jakarta Post article today (http://www.thejakartapost.com/headlines.asp) covers the latest announcement and you'll find plenty of background in achieve.
One ray of hope is that it is a proposal rather a definite plan. Such a change has been mooted since 1999 so maybe it’s hot air, maybe it’s not.
Not covered in the article is the previously proposed idea that the change will include reducing tourist visas from 60 to 30 days. This will make residing in Bali on a tourist visa untenable.
As for which countries will be retaining “free visas” I have the following list but I cannot remember the source;
Proposed to be granted visa free facility in 2003: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippine, Brunei Darussalam, Hong Kong S.A.R, Turkey, Tanzania, Peru, Morocco, Malta, Guam, Fiji, and Chile.
My Primary Source
Was live coverage last night on Indosiar and this morning's Bali Post. I am well aware of the "watered down" coverage in the Jakarta Post. And that article was extremely "watered down" from the recorded and televised version of the Minister's words. Current live news is that President Megawati will make a statement about this, but when, is not determined.
Was live coverage last night on Indosiar and this morning's Bali Post. I am well aware of the "watered down" coverage in the Jakarta Post. And that article was extremely "watered down" from the recorded and televised version of the Minister's words. Current live news is that President Megawati will make a statement about this, but when, is not determined.
Re: bad news for Bali
It seems to me that this plan or proposal has been around for a few months or more, but was supposedly tabled in the aftermath of the bombing. Timing was bad!
Looks like this is another example how short-lived memory is. In this case, memory about the hardship for Balinese people and economy.
Now, it's back to the national coffers. Good timing. National pride is at stake. Want my thumbprint? Let me put one on your wallet!
What else, since big brother is modeling cowboy politics: "Make my day, Punk!!!"
Here's a concept... what happens, when you stick your foot in your mouth and then shoot yourself in the foot? You go to pieces.
What's going to be left of Indonesia, say in 20-30 years? The armpit?
Is someone steadying the hand that holds the gun???
Clint? Gosh no, if anyone it has to be Saddam.
More years of living dangerously ahead? Sorry for the polemics, guys. Naw, not really sorry. But if this is out of line on this forum, let me know and I'll tone down.
If you look at Vincent's list, the folks from half of the countries that will retain access to free visa, will never have the money to visit this place. At least I haven't seen tourists from Turkey and Tanzania, have you?
Yours truly. Uma
It seems to me that this plan or proposal has been around for a few months or more, but was supposedly tabled in the aftermath of the bombing. Timing was bad!
Looks like this is another example how short-lived memory is. In this case, memory about the hardship for Balinese people and economy.
Now, it's back to the national coffers. Good timing. National pride is at stake. Want my thumbprint? Let me put one on your wallet!
What else, since big brother is modeling cowboy politics: "Make my day, Punk!!!"
Here's a concept... what happens, when you stick your foot in your mouth and then shoot yourself in the foot? You go to pieces.
What's going to be left of Indonesia, say in 20-30 years? The armpit?
Is someone steadying the hand that holds the gun???
Clint? Gosh no, if anyone it has to be Saddam.
More years of living dangerously ahead? Sorry for the polemics, guys. Naw, not really sorry. But if this is out of line on this forum, let me know and I'll tone down.
If you look at Vincent's list, the folks from half of the countries that will retain access to free visa, will never have the money to visit this place. At least I haven't seen tourists from Turkey and Tanzania, have you?
Yours truly. Uma
Great Post Uma
And I do love that photo of you, caught in perception but also revealing your sexuality. Not a "come on" by any means, and I hope I am forgiven for my observation.
Indeed this proposal has been bantered about for months, but it is now taking on a seriousness, which was not before evident. But if I may quote some of what you wrote:
<<Now, it's back to the national coffers. Good timing. National pride is at stake. Want my thumbprint? Let me put one on your wallet!>>
With all respect, that is easy for you to "say" or more accurately, write. Most all of us who live here would not entertain an argument with you over those words. But it could be tantamount to suicide to overtly participate even in less than overt, but hopefully understood "to a you" manner that we chose to engage. In other words, the rule of thumb here now is "hati hati." Even within the venue of e-mail, caution is de jour.
Your question, "more years of living dangerously ahead?" I have asked this a thousand times among my expat brothers and sisters. None of us like to address it, and none of us like to think of what it would mean again.
On your next trip to Bali...please e-mail me before you come. I'm certain you would like the folks I'd be delighted to introduce to you. Selamat malam.
And I do love that photo of you, caught in perception but also revealing your sexuality. Not a "come on" by any means, and I hope I am forgiven for my observation.
Indeed this proposal has been bantered about for months, but it is now taking on a seriousness, which was not before evident. But if I may quote some of what you wrote:
<<Now, it's back to the national coffers. Good timing. National pride is at stake. Want my thumbprint? Let me put one on your wallet!>>
With all respect, that is easy for you to "say" or more accurately, write. Most all of us who live here would not entertain an argument with you over those words. But it could be tantamount to suicide to overtly participate even in less than overt, but hopefully understood "to a you" manner that we chose to engage. In other words, the rule of thumb here now is "hati hati." Even within the venue of e-mail, caution is de jour.
Your question, "more years of living dangerously ahead?" I have asked this a thousand times among my expat brothers and sisters. None of us like to address it, and none of us like to think of what it would mean again.
On your next trip to Bali...please e-mail me before you come. I'm certain you would like the folks I'd be delighted to introduce to you. Selamat malam.
Indeed
And what is even more disturbing is that in today's issue of the Jakarta Post, which carried a much more "watered down" version of this story, they are on record writing that many key people in the tourist industry agree with this decision. Maybe tourism is not their "day job?" :roll:
And what is even more disturbing is that in today's issue of the Jakarta Post, which carried a much more "watered down" version of this story, they are on record writing that many key people in the tourist industry agree with this decision. Maybe tourism is not their "day job?" :roll:
Thank you Roy,
I was wondering about that--sticking my neck out that far.
Okay, hati-hati.
Odd, my grand-parents used to say that a lot in their days... actually it was "ssht, the walls have ears".
Okay, I better move from tourist visa to social visa soon. I wonder if fees for the social visa would change? I am with you that Bangkok is the place to go for the visa extensions. Even though Lothar swears by KL.
But I wouldn't wanna miss the Bangkok weekend market, some nice pomelo or green papaya salad with some Tom Yum Kai and a good curry, and getting twisted into a pretzel at that Zen-ish spa place off Siam Square. I'll be there for two days in February in transit to Bali.
Can't wait to get back there!!! Hopefully, by the end of this year I'll be one of you guys and help the family with decorating the palm tree in front of the compound with Christmas lights. :wink:
Uma
I was wondering about that--sticking my neck out that far.
Okay, hati-hati.
Odd, my grand-parents used to say that a lot in their days... actually it was "ssht, the walls have ears".
Okay, I better move from tourist visa to social visa soon. I wonder if fees for the social visa would change? I am with you that Bangkok is the place to go for the visa extensions. Even though Lothar swears by KL.
But I wouldn't wanna miss the Bangkok weekend market, some nice pomelo or green papaya salad with some Tom Yum Kai and a good curry, and getting twisted into a pretzel at that Zen-ish spa place off Siam Square. I'll be there for two days in February in transit to Bali.
Can't wait to get back there!!! Hopefully, by the end of this year I'll be one of you guys and help the family with decorating the palm tree in front of the compound with Christmas lights. :wink:
Uma
Leaving on a jet plane
tomorrow January 23rd at 1:00 pm flying Thai Airways. First to Bangkok to visit Pattaya and Phuket then onto Bali on the 9th of February. It's been a long, busy, exhausting and expensive two months stay in LA. Can't wait to find a quiet beach in Phuket to sit and do nothing all day long, and of course can't wait to be back in our home in Bali.
tomorrow January 23rd at 1:00 pm flying Thai Airways. First to Bangkok to visit Pattaya and Phuket then onto Bali on the 9th of February. It's been a long, busy, exhausting and expensive two months stay in LA. Can't wait to find a quiet beach in Phuket to sit and do nothing all day long, and of course can't wait to be back in our home in Bali.
I don't think so
Well, basically Indonesia is right to make such a proposal. A common Indonesian travelling is no more dangerous than a common American travelling. And if the US thinks they can thumbnail the whole non-US world then they should get rebuke. It won't help much, as arrogance is the brand of the only remaining superpower, but at least it's a gesture. I personally would be happy if EVERY country would pay the US in kind.
But to be serious, I don't think such a visa regulation will ever become reality in Indonesia. Treat the announcement as a political rambling would be my guess - and I think future will prove I was right.
KL food is superb by the way, as is nightlife. You find excellent Thai restaurants as well. I'm somewhat astonished that no one is trying this visa option, as it is much less troublesome and MUCH cheaper than Spore or Bangkok. Also, Malaysians can be compared to Balinese - they are extremely friendly, and that starts at Immigration. You'd be surprised.
As for caution on the net: well, yes and no. As long as it's not spreading rumors, libel, slander etc. I think anyone can have his/her opinion and voice it out. I will not permit myself being degraded to an obedient lemming, gives me the shivers and reminders of what my parents told me about WWII.
Lastly, the date for the attack on Iraq seems to be set:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?fi ... &sec=world
and I for one think that this event will have far-reaching consequences for all of us, sadly.
Well, basically Indonesia is right to make such a proposal. A common Indonesian travelling is no more dangerous than a common American travelling. And if the US thinks they can thumbnail the whole non-US world then they should get rebuke. It won't help much, as arrogance is the brand of the only remaining superpower, but at least it's a gesture. I personally would be happy if EVERY country would pay the US in kind.
But to be serious, I don't think such a visa regulation will ever become reality in Indonesia. Treat the announcement as a political rambling would be my guess - and I think future will prove I was right.
KL food is superb by the way, as is nightlife. You find excellent Thai restaurants as well. I'm somewhat astonished that no one is trying this visa option, as it is much less troublesome and MUCH cheaper than Spore or Bangkok. Also, Malaysians can be compared to Balinese - they are extremely friendly, and that starts at Immigration. You'd be surprised.
As for caution on the net: well, yes and no. As long as it's not spreading rumors, libel, slander etc. I think anyone can have his/her opinion and voice it out. I will not permit myself being degraded to an obedient lemming, gives me the shivers and reminders of what my parents told me about WWII.
Lastly, the date for the attack on Iraq seems to be set:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?fi ... &sec=world
and I for one think that this event will have far-reaching consequences for all of us, sadly.
Hi, Roy
Thanks for the info, and now I'm a bit worried. We have tried to get back to Bali as soon as possible, from the US, after 10/12, and now I'm hearing this. When might this new requirement for visas take effect, in your opinion? Our plans are to leave 2/7 for a coupla weeks. Will you be around? Would love to meet you!
It's so bizarre over here. There're those fore and against, and the polls don't reflect my opinion, but all opinons of Bush are going down. Anyway, as we fly non-rev, we have to be aware of flights. Now, to figure out if a visa is warranted will be a new twist.
Still going, and hoping for the best!
Thanks for the info, and now I'm a bit worried. We have tried to get back to Bali as soon as possible, from the US, after 10/12, and now I'm hearing this. When might this new requirement for visas take effect, in your opinion? Our plans are to leave 2/7 for a coupla weeks. Will you be around? Would love to meet you!
It's so bizarre over here. There're those fore and against, and the polls don't reflect my opinion, but all opinons of Bush are going down. Anyway, as we fly non-rev, we have to be aware of flights. Now, to figure out if a visa is warranted will be a new twist.
Still going, and hoping for the best!
Not denying that America can be somewhat arrogant, you have completely forgotten or left out the fact that being a superpower makes the US the biggest target in the world. It is also the most sought after destination for people of the world looking for a better life. If you are walking down the street and occassionally people with orange noses punch you in the face you are likely to start side stepping people with orange noses eventhough most people with orange noses don't punch you in the face. It's the same with the sad unfortunate fact that people from moslem nations are the ones punching the US in the face though most moslems certaintly are NOT terrorists. It is so often forgotten and overlooked that whenever there is disaster in the world, America is always one of the first to offer assistance. Even after America and it's allies defeated Germany and Japan in World War II, instead of being arrogant victors, America with some help from its allies rebuilt both of those countries so that they could stand on their own and build themselves back up again. Did America do this for it's own benefit? Well yes, but a stable world benefits us all.
As an American citizen born in Indonesia, I was taken aside on my last entry back into the US. I was questioned and all my baggage thoroughly inspected and x-rayed - I of course was not happy about this after spending 20 hours on the plane, I was ready to get out of the airport and home. BUT after watching planes crashing into buildings in NYC, I can understand my being targeted.
Sorry Lothar I think you're a great guy, but I just disagree with you on this one.
Augie
As an American citizen born in Indonesia, I was taken aside on my last entry back into the US. I was questioned and all my baggage thoroughly inspected and x-rayed - I of course was not happy about this after spending 20 hours on the plane, I was ready to get out of the airport and home. BUT after watching planes crashing into buildings in NYC, I can understand my being targeted.
Sorry Lothar I think you're a great guy, but I just disagree with you on this one.
Augie
Nothing to say sorry juskiff
and I must repeat here that I'm not the slightest bit against the US or against it's citizens. BUT I am very much against Mr. Bush and his administration.
You are right, America has done much for the world - but if you read past and current history well, also has done almost equal harm to the world. Be it environmental, be it overthrowing of third world governments incl. the resulting local wars, be it currency trading etc etc.
So now America is not alone here, as many other western countries have and are doing the same, past and present.
It all depends from one's point of view: If you are a Palestinesian living in Palestina f.e, you will likely hate the US, as you suffer. If you were a Vietnamese during the Vietnam war, you would have hated them as well. Now in a short while a lot of Iraqis will hate them, as they will die and suffer.
On the other side those who live prosperous and in benefit of the US will like America, naturally.
The point is that I am very much against war, ANY war. I believe that in our year 2003 the world should be civilized enough to not resort to stoneage tactics - and exactly that is what Bush and his Administration are doing - from my humble point of view.
and I must repeat here that I'm not the slightest bit against the US or against it's citizens. BUT I am very much against Mr. Bush and his administration.
You are right, America has done much for the world - but if you read past and current history well, also has done almost equal harm to the world. Be it environmental, be it overthrowing of third world governments incl. the resulting local wars, be it currency trading etc etc.
So now America is not alone here, as many other western countries have and are doing the same, past and present.
It all depends from one's point of view: If you are a Palestinesian living in Palestina f.e, you will likely hate the US, as you suffer. If you were a Vietnamese during the Vietnam war, you would have hated them as well. Now in a short while a lot of Iraqis will hate them, as they will die and suffer.
On the other side those who live prosperous and in benefit of the US will like America, naturally.
The point is that I am very much against war, ANY war. I believe that in our year 2003 the world should be civilized enough to not resort to stoneage tactics - and exactly that is what Bush and his Administration are doing - from my humble point of view.
More on this
Lothar, I sure hope you are right, and indeed this issue of wide sweeping visa changes has been brought up before. It could be more "positioning" or just nationalistic pride, but the speech by the Justice Minister, and the problems PDIP and Megawati are currently experiencing could mean a more serious approach, if in fact not outright implementation of these immigration changes. You can take the bet it won't happen...but my rupiah is on a bet that they will, especially if there is another Gulf war. Of course nothing would please me more than to see you win!
On another note, it seems this issue is "topic de jour" in another parking lot, and that you have somehow been singled out for your very valid opinions expressed here. Poor Uma too, and all I did was compliment the lady! Cheers...and here's to optimism!
For Juskiff...just a few points. Today's issues are just that...today's issues. To remind an Asian of what America did here some 60 years ago is not so much different than to remind your neighbor of how you helped out their grandfather years ago. Having face requires maintenance. Like the word "love" having face is a verb and requires action, honesty and consistency.
What I find as commonplace now is criticism of current American foreign policy, and not Americans specifically. This criticism is well founded, as American foreign policy in Asia and SE Asia has been highly inconsistent. American allies in this region ebb and flow like the tide, and that is based solely on what so many Secretaries of State and Presidents have defined as "American interests." Is it so difficult to understand how people, other than Americans, can be so insulted with that simple phrase, "American interests?" Hey...Uncle Sam! What about GLOBAL INTERESTS?
With the dissolution of the Soviet Union, America is now the ONLY world super power. What a great opportunity to embrace the rest of the world, so often ignored when American energy was spent balancing power with the SU. And, what an embarrassment to realize, as an American, how little this is understood. Just at the moment of time America could be a world leader, unparalleled in human history, it's resorting to military solutions for problems that could somehow be resolved differently. Personally, for me, that is not only embarrassing, it is virtually disgusting.
Lothar, I sure hope you are right, and indeed this issue of wide sweeping visa changes has been brought up before. It could be more "positioning" or just nationalistic pride, but the speech by the Justice Minister, and the problems PDIP and Megawati are currently experiencing could mean a more serious approach, if in fact not outright implementation of these immigration changes. You can take the bet it won't happen...but my rupiah is on a bet that they will, especially if there is another Gulf war. Of course nothing would please me more than to see you win!
On another note, it seems this issue is "topic de jour" in another parking lot, and that you have somehow been singled out for your very valid opinions expressed here. Poor Uma too, and all I did was compliment the lady! Cheers...and here's to optimism!
For Juskiff...just a few points. Today's issues are just that...today's issues. To remind an Asian of what America did here some 60 years ago is not so much different than to remind your neighbor of how you helped out their grandfather years ago. Having face requires maintenance. Like the word "love" having face is a verb and requires action, honesty and consistency.
What I find as commonplace now is criticism of current American foreign policy, and not Americans specifically. This criticism is well founded, as American foreign policy in Asia and SE Asia has been highly inconsistent. American allies in this region ebb and flow like the tide, and that is based solely on what so many Secretaries of State and Presidents have defined as "American interests." Is it so difficult to understand how people, other than Americans, can be so insulted with that simple phrase, "American interests?" Hey...Uncle Sam! What about GLOBAL INTERESTS?
With the dissolution of the Soviet Union, America is now the ONLY world super power. What a great opportunity to embrace the rest of the world, so often ignored when American energy was spent balancing power with the SU. And, what an embarrassment to realize, as an American, how little this is understood. Just at the moment of time America could be a world leader, unparalleled in human history, it's resorting to military solutions for problems that could somehow be resolved differently. Personally, for me, that is not only embarrassing, it is virtually disgusting.
I take the bet Roy
even called some friends who should know in JKT 2 hours ago. Let it be 20 US$ ok for dinner with you ok? :lol:
Parking lot? I park all my cars in ONE garage
, so I don't care much which or whose cars park on other lots.
Regarding American policies here a nice piece:
What Bush should have said after Sept 11 but didn't.
The following is a speech that United States President George W. Bush should have given in the immediate aftermath of the Sept 11 attacks, but didn't.
By Janadas Devan
MY FELLOW Americans, the rubble that was once the World Trade Centre teaches us two lessons: Culture matters; government matters. Let me explain.
The people who flew those planes that crashed into the twin towers weren't born wanting to do that.
Terrorism is no more a peculiarly Arabic or Muslim instinct than the Holocaust was coded in the Germanic or Christian gene, or the Rape of Nanking in the Japanese or Buddhist one.
Aberrations and distortions in any culture can pervert human beings into beastly replicas of themselves. Failed cultures flew those planes.
And that is precisely what most of these societies, with some significant exceptions - Malaysia comes to mind - have become: bankrupt societies. Their politics are bankrupt, their economies are bankrupt, their intellectual cultures are bankrupt.
In place of Salah al-Din Yusuf (or Saladin) we have uninspiring leaders. In place of the riches and glories of the Abbasids, the Almohads, the Almoravids and the Mughals, we have the hovels of Cairo and Damascus, Beirut and Lahore.
And in place of Ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd - known to Western philosophy as Avicenna and Averroes - we have 10,000 fire-breathing preachers spewing hatred and venom.
I'll give you just one statistic to illustrate the intellectual poverty. All of Egypt, this ancient cradle of civilisations, produces just 350 books a year. Just one university press in America produces more.
REALISE THE SIZE OF THE VOID
HOW did they get this way? The causes are many. First, political: The Ottoman Empire collapsed suddenly in the aftermath of World War I, and nothing legitimate succeeded it. Colonialism did its thing, succeeded by pan-Arabic nationalism. Both failed.
Pax Americana didn't help either, for we propped up brutal and corrupt dictatorships for cheap oil.
Second, economic: Without oil, all these countries in the Persian Gulf would be poorer than sub-Saharan Africa but because of oil, they became corrupt.
Egypt, which has no oil, has an unemployment rate of 25 per cent, and 90 per cent of the jobless have university degrees. Those figures are going to get worse, for half of the population in most Arabic countries is under the age of 25.
And finally, religion: For what filled the void left by failed politics and failed economics was a distortion of Islam.
You remember our old friend, Karl Marx? He got all his economics wrong, but the old coot knew a thing or two about history.
'Religion is the opium of the people,' he said.
But that's not all. He also said: 'Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions.'
That is spot on. For if you live in hell, what do you do? Well, you create a heaven in your head where all the difficult questions are neatly resolved, and presto, you have a comforting Theory of Everything.
Find modernity difficult? Force your women into purdah. Find it tough to compete with Hongkong and Taiwan? Withdraw into the madrasah. Feel ashamed of what has become of the once glorious Arabic civilisation? Blame the West and Jews.
Up to just 100 years ago, they didn't feel like that. Do you know who protected Jews for almost 2,000 years after the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem? It wasn't Christians, folks. Christian Europe killed them by the millions. Rather, it was Muslims.
Dhimmi, they called them - people of the Book - and allowed them full religious liberty for the most part. Jews became prime ministers in the Ottoman Empire.
Now all that is gone, except for islands of almost cowed rationality, amid a sea of hatred, fear and intolerance. The sea is spreading, the islands are shrinking. What is more, this Thing - these horrid distortions of Islam - seems to have a life of its own, quite apart from socio-economic factors. Why?
Karl Marx again: There is base - economics and politics - and there is superstructure - culture, religion. The two are connected, but the latter can have a life of its own.
Thus, we find scholarship boys in prosperous Malaysia joining Al-Qaeda, world-class physicists in Pakistan offering to make the bomb for Osama bin Laden, and Osama himself, a blasted millionaire. There is no economics here; this is straightforward religious obscurantism.
Can we do something about all this, besides capturing or killing the chief lunatics, which we must and will? Can these cultures be fixed?
Yes - they must; we have no alternative. But we can't do the fixing ourselves. Americans can't be theologians to the Islamic world. Muslims have to be that themselves. But we can help.
So I'm announcing today a US$1 trillion (S$1.74 trillion) development programme, a joint European-Japanese-American, public-private sector plan to shake up the Middle East and put it back on its feet.
Harry Truman did something similar in Europe and Japan after World War II, and named it after his Secretary of State, a former general, George Marshall. I'm naming my programme after my own Secretary of State, also a former general, Mr Colin Powell. He is African-American, and he knows what it means to overcome oppression.
The Powell Plan's aim is simple: Where there are politico-socio-economic swamps feeding this beast, we will help drain them. Men and women of goodwill in the Arab world, you take on the ideological battles yourselves.
But this is not baksheesh, free money. The Arab world has to earn it.
No transparent and accountable governments, no money. No liberation of women, nothing for health clinics. No bunsen burners and test-tubes in the madrasah, zilch for education.
CHANGE OR DECLINE FURTHER
MESSAGE to ordinary, decent Arabs: This is your chance, folks; force the changes to make a better life; grasp modernity.
Message to oil-rich Arab kingdoms: By Sept 11, 2011, all cars in the US will be battery-powered. We put a man on the moon and brought him back; we can make a battery-powered car to drive from New York to Los Angeles, and back.
So Arab princes, get a life. Teach your peoples to earn a living the old-fashioned way - by working - or you can drink the oil.
Alas, Mr Bush gave no such speech. There is no Powell Plan, only a botched State Department advertising campaign in the Middle East. And there is no battery-powered car, only thirst for more oil which, in part, is driving the US to invade Iraq.
source: http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/commen ... 21,00.html?
even called some friends who should know in JKT 2 hours ago. Let it be 20 US$ ok for dinner with you ok? :lol:
Parking lot? I park all my cars in ONE garage
, so I don't care much which or whose cars park on other lots.Regarding American policies here a nice piece:
What Bush should have said after Sept 11 but didn't.
The following is a speech that United States President George W. Bush should have given in the immediate aftermath of the Sept 11 attacks, but didn't.
By Janadas Devan
MY FELLOW Americans, the rubble that was once the World Trade Centre teaches us two lessons: Culture matters; government matters. Let me explain.
The people who flew those planes that crashed into the twin towers weren't born wanting to do that.
Terrorism is no more a peculiarly Arabic or Muslim instinct than the Holocaust was coded in the Germanic or Christian gene, or the Rape of Nanking in the Japanese or Buddhist one.
Aberrations and distortions in any culture can pervert human beings into beastly replicas of themselves. Failed cultures flew those planes.
And that is precisely what most of these societies, with some significant exceptions - Malaysia comes to mind - have become: bankrupt societies. Their politics are bankrupt, their economies are bankrupt, their intellectual cultures are bankrupt.
In place of Salah al-Din Yusuf (or Saladin) we have uninspiring leaders. In place of the riches and glories of the Abbasids, the Almohads, the Almoravids and the Mughals, we have the hovels of Cairo and Damascus, Beirut and Lahore.
And in place of Ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd - known to Western philosophy as Avicenna and Averroes - we have 10,000 fire-breathing preachers spewing hatred and venom.
I'll give you just one statistic to illustrate the intellectual poverty. All of Egypt, this ancient cradle of civilisations, produces just 350 books a year. Just one university press in America produces more.
REALISE THE SIZE OF THE VOID
HOW did they get this way? The causes are many. First, political: The Ottoman Empire collapsed suddenly in the aftermath of World War I, and nothing legitimate succeeded it. Colonialism did its thing, succeeded by pan-Arabic nationalism. Both failed.
Pax Americana didn't help either, for we propped up brutal and corrupt dictatorships for cheap oil.
Second, economic: Without oil, all these countries in the Persian Gulf would be poorer than sub-Saharan Africa but because of oil, they became corrupt.
Egypt, which has no oil, has an unemployment rate of 25 per cent, and 90 per cent of the jobless have university degrees. Those figures are going to get worse, for half of the population in most Arabic countries is under the age of 25.
And finally, religion: For what filled the void left by failed politics and failed economics was a distortion of Islam.
You remember our old friend, Karl Marx? He got all his economics wrong, but the old coot knew a thing or two about history.
'Religion is the opium of the people,' he said.
But that's not all. He also said: 'Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions.'
That is spot on. For if you live in hell, what do you do? Well, you create a heaven in your head where all the difficult questions are neatly resolved, and presto, you have a comforting Theory of Everything.
Find modernity difficult? Force your women into purdah. Find it tough to compete with Hongkong and Taiwan? Withdraw into the madrasah. Feel ashamed of what has become of the once glorious Arabic civilisation? Blame the West and Jews.
Up to just 100 years ago, they didn't feel like that. Do you know who protected Jews for almost 2,000 years after the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem? It wasn't Christians, folks. Christian Europe killed them by the millions. Rather, it was Muslims.
Dhimmi, they called them - people of the Book - and allowed them full religious liberty for the most part. Jews became prime ministers in the Ottoman Empire.
Now all that is gone, except for islands of almost cowed rationality, amid a sea of hatred, fear and intolerance. The sea is spreading, the islands are shrinking. What is more, this Thing - these horrid distortions of Islam - seems to have a life of its own, quite apart from socio-economic factors. Why?
Karl Marx again: There is base - economics and politics - and there is superstructure - culture, religion. The two are connected, but the latter can have a life of its own.
Thus, we find scholarship boys in prosperous Malaysia joining Al-Qaeda, world-class physicists in Pakistan offering to make the bomb for Osama bin Laden, and Osama himself, a blasted millionaire. There is no economics here; this is straightforward religious obscurantism.
Can we do something about all this, besides capturing or killing the chief lunatics, which we must and will? Can these cultures be fixed?
Yes - they must; we have no alternative. But we can't do the fixing ourselves. Americans can't be theologians to the Islamic world. Muslims have to be that themselves. But we can help.
So I'm announcing today a US$1 trillion (S$1.74 trillion) development programme, a joint European-Japanese-American, public-private sector plan to shake up the Middle East and put it back on its feet.
Harry Truman did something similar in Europe and Japan after World War II, and named it after his Secretary of State, a former general, George Marshall. I'm naming my programme after my own Secretary of State, also a former general, Mr Colin Powell. He is African-American, and he knows what it means to overcome oppression.
The Powell Plan's aim is simple: Where there are politico-socio-economic swamps feeding this beast, we will help drain them. Men and women of goodwill in the Arab world, you take on the ideological battles yourselves.
But this is not baksheesh, free money. The Arab world has to earn it.
No transparent and accountable governments, no money. No liberation of women, nothing for health clinics. No bunsen burners and test-tubes in the madrasah, zilch for education.
CHANGE OR DECLINE FURTHER
MESSAGE to ordinary, decent Arabs: This is your chance, folks; force the changes to make a better life; grasp modernity.
Message to oil-rich Arab kingdoms: By Sept 11, 2011, all cars in the US will be battery-powered. We put a man on the moon and brought him back; we can make a battery-powered car to drive from New York to Los Angeles, and back.
So Arab princes, get a life. Teach your peoples to earn a living the old-fashioned way - by working - or you can drink the oil.
Alas, Mr Bush gave no such speech. There is no Powell Plan, only a botched State Department advertising campaign in the Middle East. And there is no battery-powered car, only thirst for more oil which, in part, is driving the US to invade Iraq.
source: http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/commen ... 21,00.html?
CONTINUING,
And, for what it is worth, here again is my letter published in the Jakarta Post September 15, 2002. Apologies to those who have already read it, but it's still valid, if not more, today.
AMERICA'S NEW COLONIALISM
For the first time in history, be it unrecorded, ancient or modern, the world as a whole has no balance of power. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, there is only one "super power" left, and it is the United States of America.
This should be an opportunity for the United States to bond with the world community in an unprecedented fashion, considering that the major threat to world peace, the cold war, has ended. But this has not happened. Rather, the US has shunned virtually every world community effort to limit pollution, eliminate poverty, and embrace a world judicial body. At the very point in history that America could truly shine as a beacon of freedom, espouse democratic governance, and be a truly God blessed land, it has failed most miserably. This is the ultimate tragedy of 911. The terrorists have won, as America has changed.
I imagine that my colonial ancestors, who fought so hard, and sacrificed all to achieve independence during the American Revolutionary War, are rolling in their graves, desperate to return to life and shed once again their light and vision of democracy and good governance, which now is so clearly obscured by greed...a greed so often and revoltingly called, "American interests." But even this is now overshadowed by what is clearly seen by the world at large as American revenge.
I am even more convinced that these venerable men of ages past would literally shudder with the realization that the United States has undertaken a resolute foreign policy of what I term, the new colonialism. The right of self governance was at the core, the heart, and soul of American ideology at its inception. So, why is it then that American foreign policy seems so much to demand "being like Americans" then what it should be, which is "being freely yourselves?" Does it strike Americans so odd that other world citizens may like to buy our McDonalds hamburgers, but not our political ideology? Have American interests within the world transcended the economic and strategic to become ideological, cultural and political? It seems so to me, an American, so you can surely bet it seems so to large numbers of the ASEAN population.
This "new" colonialism is not defined by literal occupation, but is just as real as the colonial days long past, as it requires agreement, capitulation, and subjection. The new colonial empire does not launch hundreds of ships loaded with armed men to conquer and subject. Rather, the new empire engages in threats of trade embargoes, pressure on allies to join in the "fight" and conducts covert operations designed to undermine what I would call, the right to self governance. What right does the US have to prevent any country in this world from earning its own independence by struggle, or fighting its own civil war? How can the US deny anyone the right to walk the same path towards liberty that it walked itself? How can the US judge others utilizing more elevated standards than it judges itself?
President Bush's recent speech to the UN was a most embarrassing and a painfully obvious example of a Super Power run amuk. Frankly, I was surprised that President Bush didn't bang his shoe on the podium to emphasize his points! If you have the historical perspective I allude to in your mind, you might enjoy the irony that only history provides. What audacity is this? In essence, President Bush delivered an ultimatum to the United Nations. In reality what he said was "do something I like and agree with, or I'll do it myself." Can you imagine such a statement delivered to the world community by what is supposed to be the leader of human rights, freedom and governance "by the people, and for the people?" I can't, and I am certain my ancestors could not either.
And, for what it is worth, here again is my letter published in the Jakarta Post September 15, 2002. Apologies to those who have already read it, but it's still valid, if not more, today.
AMERICA'S NEW COLONIALISM
For the first time in history, be it unrecorded, ancient or modern, the world as a whole has no balance of power. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, there is only one "super power" left, and it is the United States of America.
This should be an opportunity for the United States to bond with the world community in an unprecedented fashion, considering that the major threat to world peace, the cold war, has ended. But this has not happened. Rather, the US has shunned virtually every world community effort to limit pollution, eliminate poverty, and embrace a world judicial body. At the very point in history that America could truly shine as a beacon of freedom, espouse democratic governance, and be a truly God blessed land, it has failed most miserably. This is the ultimate tragedy of 911. The terrorists have won, as America has changed.
I imagine that my colonial ancestors, who fought so hard, and sacrificed all to achieve independence during the American Revolutionary War, are rolling in their graves, desperate to return to life and shed once again their light and vision of democracy and good governance, which now is so clearly obscured by greed...a greed so often and revoltingly called, "American interests." But even this is now overshadowed by what is clearly seen by the world at large as American revenge.
I am even more convinced that these venerable men of ages past would literally shudder with the realization that the United States has undertaken a resolute foreign policy of what I term, the new colonialism. The right of self governance was at the core, the heart, and soul of American ideology at its inception. So, why is it then that American foreign policy seems so much to demand "being like Americans" then what it should be, which is "being freely yourselves?" Does it strike Americans so odd that other world citizens may like to buy our McDonalds hamburgers, but not our political ideology? Have American interests within the world transcended the economic and strategic to become ideological, cultural and political? It seems so to me, an American, so you can surely bet it seems so to large numbers of the ASEAN population.
This "new" colonialism is not defined by literal occupation, but is just as real as the colonial days long past, as it requires agreement, capitulation, and subjection. The new colonial empire does not launch hundreds of ships loaded with armed men to conquer and subject. Rather, the new empire engages in threats of trade embargoes, pressure on allies to join in the "fight" and conducts covert operations designed to undermine what I would call, the right to self governance. What right does the US have to prevent any country in this world from earning its own independence by struggle, or fighting its own civil war? How can the US deny anyone the right to walk the same path towards liberty that it walked itself? How can the US judge others utilizing more elevated standards than it judges itself?
President Bush's recent speech to the UN was a most embarrassing and a painfully obvious example of a Super Power run amuk. Frankly, I was surprised that President Bush didn't bang his shoe on the podium to emphasize his points! If you have the historical perspective I allude to in your mind, you might enjoy the irony that only history provides. What audacity is this? In essence, President Bush delivered an ultimatum to the United Nations. In reality what he said was "do something I like and agree with, or I'll do it myself." Can you imagine such a statement delivered to the world community by what is supposed to be the leader of human rights, freedom and governance "by the people, and for the people?" I can't, and I am certain my ancestors could not either.