Forgetting names
- Thread starter mikeR
- Start date
TEKNONYMY, the practice of designating adults according to the names of their children, is not often examined for its functional significance, but more frequently assumed to be a mere ethnological detail, or a minor nomenclatural usage. When social consequences are attributed to it, they tend to be confined to the most personal and domestic spheres of life.1 Bali, however, provides material for the contrary thesis: there teknonymy becomes a vital social mechanism with important structural impact both on village organization and on the process of corporate kin-group formation. On the one hand, the systematic application of teknonymous names serves to mark out explicit age-grades within each Balinese village. These age-cohorts are unnamed and informal in operation, but they are, nevertheless, highly influential components of the community structure. On the other hand, the custom of teknonymy plays an equally significant role within the Balinese kinship system. It creates, through its progressive suppression of personal names and its regular substitution of what are essentially impersonal status terms, a curtain of genealogical amnesia which steadily descends over each generation in turn. Recognition of common descent becomes a most flexible matter, so that corporate descent groups among Balinese commoners are free to expand or contract their memberships readily in response to changing circumstances, such as shifts in the relative wealth, political power or prestige of their members. Teknonymy thus serves as a potent if indirect agent for creating the elasticity, the adaptability which is one of the most distinctive and fundamental peculiarities of the Balinese kinship system, and in fact, which enables the system to work at all.
and much much more at:
http://www.iwp.uni-linz.ac.at/lxe/sektk ... y_Bali.htm
and much much more at:
http://www.iwp.uni-linz.ac.at/lxe/sektk ... y_Bali.htm
Bert
I have a double degree and could not understand the above post. Go on you did not write this did you, but copied it from a text book
I have a double degree and could not understand the above post. Go on you did not write this did you, but copied it from a text book
I found it actually very interesting...
I never knew this :shock:
I wonder however if its still like they describe it, probably in the villages in some way....
I will see if I recognize any of it IRL
I never knew this :shock:
I wonder however if its still like they describe it, probably in the villages in some way....
I will see if I recognize any of it IRL
I also found the entire article very interesting. I was engrossed for over an hour.
I had to read the first paragraph a few times to understand the meaning, but the writer does give a much clearer explanation further down the page.
Thanks Bert!
I had to read the first paragraph a few times to understand the meaning, but the writer does give a much clearer explanation further down the page.
Thanks Bert!
first off Jimbo cool no hat
as for teknonymy well sounds good to me ha I forget my kids names all the time ...
it seems more like a title to me though as the names give rank any way so if your rank changes ....
as for teknonymy well sounds good to me ha I forget my kids names all the time ...
it seems more like a title to me though as the names give rank any way so if your rank changes ....
Re: RE: Forgetting names
Jimbo, everything that Clifford Geertz (the co-author of the paper Bert cites) is difficult. He is one of those scholars who believes in writing densely - but he is well worth the effort as his stuff is rich and he has a great understanding of Balinese society. As a starting point, though, I'd suggest the little book by J. Stephen Lansing simply called "The Balinese". It has a very readable section on kinship and naming.
You're quite right. Titles do change but it depends on the context. Usually a person starts with three "names" - the gender name (I for men, Ni for women), birth order name (Wayan, Nyoman, Ketut, Made) and a personal name.
At birth, to take an example, a boy might be named I Nyoman Rangkan. He grows up, gets married and has a son who he calls I Wayan Rajeg. Rangkan's name now changes to Pan Rajeg (father of Rajeg). Rajeg marries and has a son named I Wayan Suda. Pan Rajeg is now known as Kak Suda (grandfather of Suda) and Rajeg becomes Pan Suda (father of Suda). When Suda has a daughter Ni Wayan Loh, Rangkan becomes Kumpi Loh (great grandfather of Loh), Rajeg becomes Kak Loh (grandfather of Loh) and Suda becomes Pan Loh (father of Loh).
The reason that people "forget" the names of old people is that, by the time someone like Rangkan has become Kumpi Loh, most people have forgotten the name Rangkan because people have been using the teknonym instead of the real personal name for years. And it is not just the old people, in some cases husbands forget their wives' personal names and vice versa as they get older.
There are all sorts of other complications, such as the naming systems for castes and occupational groups etc.
I've probably just added to the confusion, but I find the Balinese kinship system really fascinating.
Jimbo, everything that Clifford Geertz (the co-author of the paper Bert cites) is difficult. He is one of those scholars who believes in writing densely - but he is well worth the effort as his stuff is rich and he has a great understanding of Balinese society. As a starting point, though, I'd suggest the little book by J. Stephen Lansing simply called "The Balinese". It has a very readable section on kinship and naming.
jill said:
You're quite right. Titles do change but it depends on the context. Usually a person starts with three "names" - the gender name (I for men, Ni for women), birth order name (Wayan, Nyoman, Ketut, Made) and a personal name.
At birth, to take an example, a boy might be named I Nyoman Rangkan. He grows up, gets married and has a son who he calls I Wayan Rajeg. Rangkan's name now changes to Pan Rajeg (father of Rajeg). Rajeg marries and has a son named I Wayan Suda. Pan Rajeg is now known as Kak Suda (grandfather of Suda) and Rajeg becomes Pan Suda (father of Suda). When Suda has a daughter Ni Wayan Loh, Rangkan becomes Kumpi Loh (great grandfather of Loh), Rajeg becomes Kak Loh (grandfather of Loh) and Suda becomes Pan Loh (father of Loh).
The reason that people "forget" the names of old people is that, by the time someone like Rangkan has become Kumpi Loh, most people have forgotten the name Rangkan because people have been using the teknonym instead of the real personal name for years. And it is not just the old people, in some cases husbands forget their wives' personal names and vice versa as they get older.
There are all sorts of other complications, such as the naming systems for castes and occupational groups etc.
I've probably just added to the confusion, but I find the Balinese kinship system really fascinating.
Hi all
I have no degrees and I am still confused. I undersand the gender name, birth order name but the personal name I am not quite sure. It if a family name like our surname or is every child given a different personal name? Is there a family name like Smith or Jones.
I have no degrees and I am still confused. I undersand the gender name, birth order name but the personal name I am not quite sure. It if a family name like our surname or is every child given a different personal name? Is there a family name like Smith or Jones.
Great example of how an explanation leads to further confusion I understand some of this as I am Bapak James (after my firstborn son) This is confusing however as I am also called James. My wife is obviously Ibu James. But we all have surnames or family names.
How do the Balinese keep up? Wisely they do not which is why the confusion reigns....at least to me.
I understand some of this as I am Bapak James (after my firstborn son) This is confusing however as I am also called James. My wife is obviously Ibu James. But we all have surnames or family names.How do the Balinese keep up? Wisely they do not which is why the confusion reigns....at least to me.
This string started out,
Teknonymy may play a small role, but it doesn't offer a complete answer.
For example, teknonymy plays no role on how a Balinese calls themselves. It only applies to how they may, or may not, be called by others.
Nor is there any legal change in the names of Balinese as they progress up the generational ladder. Their names on their KTPs and driving licenses remains the same.
Teknonymy may play a small role, but it doesn't offer a complete answer.
For example, teknonymy plays no role on how a Balinese calls themselves. It only applies to how they may, or may not, be called by others.
Nor is there any legal change in the names of Balinese as they progress up the generational ladder. Their names on their KTPs and driving licenses remains the same.