Best visa solution for my personal last minute situation

[MiSO]

I read about the basics of VOA. But I am in this last minute situation and I don't have enough time to research properly, so I hope you can brainstorm with me.

I am in Thailand right now (Phuket) and decided to go to Bali right away instead of going back to Europe first.

I am staying in this accommodation until 28 of November (this weekend).
My visa for Thailand is valid until 24 of December.

I can fly this Friday/Saturday directly to Denpasar, and get a 1 month VOA. But I want to limit visaruns (6 x in 6 months would be too much), so maybe it is a better idea to get a visa for 2 months in Bangkok or in Malaysia before I go to Bali?
Is this 2 months visa a part of the Sosial Budaya Visa?
Is it even a better idea to organise this SB Visa first (via an agent) and wait a couple of weeks in Thailand, Malaysia?

The whole idea is: limiting visaruns.
Thanks!

 

[spicyayam]

If you are already in Phuket, you could go fairly easily to KL, either by bus or flying. You do however need someone to be your sponsor in Bali for the visa.

 

[mimpimanis]

You can get a 60 day tourist visa in Thailand or Malaysia without a sponsor.

 

[tintin]

MiSO,

The 2-month (tourist) visa has nothing to do with the 2-month visa, which is part of the sosial budaya, and which can be extended, in Bali, following the first 2 months. I am afraid that you have no choice: get the 2-month tourist visa. While in Bali, you'll have plenty of time to set up the paper work for a sosial budaya, and return to SIN or KL to get one, in 2 months.

 

[MiSO]

I decided to go to Bangkok to get a tourist visa for 2 months. I know my way there and I have to get rid of my Bahts before I head for B.

But then...on the website of the Embassy I could only find a tourist visa for 1 month for ' Nationals of any country not included in the list of the countries that eligible for Visa-Free Visits' (which is not me btw) And this would be only for 4 weeks.
This is not the tourist visa you are talking of.

http://www.kbri-bangkok.com/about_embas ... ervicevisa

By Google-ing I read it is possible to get a 2 months visa, so I am taking my chances.
http://www.baliforum.com/travel/showfla ... ain=285830

This visa-thing is always a pain in the *r*h ... Malaysia and Hong Kong make it easier...(3 months, free visa) But then..it is not B :wink:

 

[mimpimanis]

I had a look at the UK website and there is info about the 60 day visa on there. I cant imagine it is on offer in UK and not in Thailand.

http://www.indonesianembassy.org.uk/consular/consular_visa_type_tourist.html

....just looked at the Thai website and sure enough cant see the info on there :roll:

 

[MiSO]

Mimpimanis, I read the UK's site. You're right, it would be very unlogical if this isn't offered in Thailand.

 

[matsaleh]

The 2-month (tourist) visa has nothing to do with the 2-month visa, which is part of the sosial budaya, and which can be extended, in Bali, following the first 2 months. I am afraid that you have no choice: get the 2-month tourist visa. While in Bali, you'll have plenty of time to set up the paper work for a sosial budaya, and return to SIN or KL to get one, in 2 months.

Tintin, previously you were correct that these were different visas but now the 60 day "tourist visa" and the social budaya visa are one and the same. They are both 211 visas (with or without a sponsor).

The tourist visa can now be converted to a social budaya by providing a sponsor letter and KTP to immigration before the end of the 60 day tourist visa.

This is not under-the-table, pay-a-few-bucks-extra corrupsi. It's absolutely legal and legitimate. However, it only applies to the 60 day 211 tourist visa; the 30 day visa-on-arrival cannot be extended in the same way. Well, not legally that is... :roll:

My recommendation would be to contact a visa agent who will ask for your sponsor letter or will provide you with a sponsor, if you don't already have one.

 

[spicyayam]

now the 60 day "tourist visa" and the social budaya visa are one and the same. They are both 211 visas (with or without a sponsor).

Is there any place I can check this on the internet or otherwise?

I have had the 60 days tourist visa and the social visa and the only difference between the two that I could see was that the sponsor's name is typed on the visa.

I posted the question on the living in Indonesia forum and this is what Atlantis said:

Strictly speaking:
A Visa Kunjungan given for a tourism purpose is not extendable.

Source:
Pasal 35, ayat 3, Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 32 tahun 1994/ Article 35, Section 3 Government regulation number 32/1994.)

(3) Dalam hal Izin Kunjungan untuk keperluan wisata, jangka waktu 60 (enam puluh) hari tidak dapat diperpanjang

Pasal 47, ayat 1, Keputusan Menteri Kehakiman RI nomor M.02-IZ.01.10 tahun 1995/Article 47, section 1, Minister of Justice regulation number M.02-IZ.01.10

(1) Izin Kunjungan dapat diperpanjang kecuali untuk Izin Kunjungan Wisata.

These articles of law prevail and have never been amended.
Therefore it is illegal to extend a Visa Kunjungan Wisata (tourist visa). beyond its 60 days initial validity. Now, if any immigration officer decides to extend it, I would be very interested to hear how his decision (or any unofficial directive from any high ranking Immigration Officer) can subrogate Indonesion Government official regulations.

Why does Immigration extend this non extendable visa sometimes? Just because:
- it brings money to the country (and to be honest the 1994 and 1995 regulations would need a serious refresher, not being in accordance with a globalised world)
- it may brings extra money to them (the more 'clients' there is, the more money one makes)
- the applicant (ie: the foreigner) is the only one who will bear the legal responsability of the illegal act. A Visa Kunjungan Wisata (tourist) or a visa kunjungan Sosial Budaya looks almost exactly the same (in most of the cases they are strictly identical and only in some cases the name of the sponsor appears on the SosBud allowing to differentiate it from his tourist visa" cousin) and bear the same index (both are B211 visas).
Thus, if any problem arise, the immigration officer would have no problem to put the blame on the applicant, saying that the foreigner concealed the fact that he first applied for a tourist visa.

 

[tintin]

Matsaleh writes

Tintin, previously you were correct that these were different visas but now...

What can I say, Matsaleh, I'm an old fashion guy...

Seriously, since I am far from being an authority on this subject, and I know that Matsaleh is in the know for these types of things, I would go with her opinion. However, on this point, spicyayam's comments are also quite convincing (now, I don't know either who "Atlantis" is who answered spicyayam's question)

IMHO, the punch line of all this is that this point needs to be researched and discussed further, as it is very important for many people wanting to spend, legally, an extended time in Bali.

 

[Jimbo]

Antlantis used to post here under KaBim. He reads the law in the original Indonesian and is the most knoledgeable man I know on law for visa's

 

[bambang]

What happened to Kabim? :lol:

Seriously anyone who thinks the law is a science is not going to get far. I would give Kabim 9/10 for reading the law in Indonesain but 3/10 for actually interpreting it. And lets face it a lot of legislation is poorly written.

In my mind the two visas were merged to make it easier to administer and also make it easier for the applicant. There may be no way to "extend" a tourist visa but now it can be magically "converted" to a social visa.

 

[spicyayam]

What happened to Kabim?

I read on the Indonesia expat forum he is away on business.

I would give Kabim 9/10 for reading the law in Indonesain but 3/10 for actually interpreting it.

And do you think there any lawyers, judges or legislators are any better?

 

[bambang]

I read on the Indonesia expat forum he is away on business.

Must be a long trip - he hasn't posted since this string: https://balipod.com/forum/threads/buy-property-in-indonesia-mixed-couple.2738/

And do you think there any lawyers, judges or legislators are any better?

Given that there is no proof that any Indonesian woman has lost her land because she is married to a foreigner or that a foreigner has been successfully prosecuted for "illegally" converting their tourist visa to a social visa I would say there are and that Kabim/Atlantis is inventing problems that don't actually exist.

BTW I think that Roy was spot on with his assessment of the land ownership question in the above string.

 

[calitobali]

Kabim is Atlantis? I've always wondered, they both say they live in Manado, and can both speak Manadonese, which I would imagine is rare. They both seem to know the laws pretty well too, whether it be the exact laws or how they are implemented would be another story.

 

[MiSO]

I went to the embassy in BKK, 600-602 Phetchaburi road next to Pantip Plaza. After entering an aluminium door, go right and enter the 'building'. It is small room with a few seats.

For 2 months tourist visa:
Fill in the application form under " For visit purpose" (see attechment for example)

I printed the form (2 pages) one sided and two sides (there was an online discussion about this) The employer pointed at the one sided print (so 2 pages)

Besides the appl.form you need 2 ID colour photos, 45 USD, return or onward ticket & passport. You have to leave your passport and your ticket behind.
The receipt (tanda terima...yeah... ) tells when you can pick it up ( 2 days after)

All together it took me 20 minutes (asking, filling in the form). Not bad for a newbie.

Thanks y'all!

PS
Ticket-info:
I bought a return ticket BKK-Denpasar, non refundable, but I can change the date (Air Asia 12,500 baht/ 250 Euro, 20 kg luggage)
Flying back to Europe with a one-way ticket it is cheapest from BKK (as far as I know, direct flight around 300 Euro)

 

[aquaman]

.....PS
Ticket-info:
I bought a return ticket BKK-Denpasar, non refundable, but I can change the date (Air Asia 12,500 baht/ 250 Euro, 20 kg luggage)
Flying back to Europe with a one-way ticket it is cheapest from BKK (as far as I know, direct flight around 300 Euro)

Good to hear you had no problems and not wanting to rub it in but you should have been able to get a far cheaper flight through Air Asia. Did you book online a few weeks in advance? I flew BKK to DPS one way in September. Total cost 2690 BT (including airport taxes, 15kg baggage allowance and 50 BT preferential seat - I've got long legs :lol: ). The return ticket was basically the same price if I needed it.

 

[MiSO]

You are so right, it could have been cheaper...but then... I lost my Credit Card, so I have to pay everything cash... :cry: And I didn't want to stay longer in Thailand, now I have to pay for this impatience to be in Bali a.s.a.p. ....
Well, at least this short legged gal saved 50 B... :wink:

 

[spicyayam]

Did you get the ticket through an agent or through an AirAsia office?

Sounds like you are very keen to get to Bali I hope you stick around and post your initial impressions of Bali.

 

[MiSO]

Spicy Ayam: Through Agent, which was cheaper than Air Asia office. :?:
What I also don't understand is why online booking is more expensive than booking through an AirAsia office. For the same flight.
I also booked only 5 days before departure, maybe that;s also the reason why I paid double the fare some people paid.

Anyway that is always with last minute decisions, you usually pay more...

I will stick around and share my first impressions, a promise I can keep easily...and that is promise!