Bali cheats and punishes tourists

balibounder1

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Jun 21, 2004
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Bali is portrayed as “The Island of the Gods”, and an idyllic isle worthy of any tourist vacation.

In truth, the real Bali it would seem, is one of a decaying infrastructure, corruption, incivility and victimization.

Essentially, Indonesia is poor, and the Bali inhabitants appear to do everything they can to encourage the tourists to spend exorbitant amounts of money at every opportunity.

Package holidays might seem a good deal, but many companies are “locked in” to certain establishments to get their cut of your business. Even the local transport drivers who pester you relentlessly for business, will be getting their “bonus”, “reward”, “in kind” benefit, from your visits to tourist spots. You are taken to where THEY want to go, because that is where they have an arrangement, have no doubt about it. You will never be told that what you are taken to, and pay most handsomely for, is probably available at maybe half the price elsewhere, or even free!!!

Certain silverware shops in Ubud, offer the transport drivers a free packet of cigarettes, drink and snack, which they discreetly collect from around the rear of the shop, after they have dropped off their tourists, which of course means, that the tourists have indirectly paid for these unknowingly.
That clearly is deceit.

Very few people are your friend in Bali; most having an ulterior motive of extorting as much money from you as possible – even the highly respected Doctor will charge you double the price of others - friendship remember, is free; it is the only thing in life that is. There exists in almost everything, the “local” price, and the “tourist” price, the difference usually being a multiple of five!

Simply put, a trip to Nusa Penida will cost you 1.5 million rupiah, but for a local, usually less than 300,000rp.
A further example is jewellery in Ubud, retailing at 170,000rp, is immediately reduced to 70,000rp if you are local, and further discount is available, such is the real value of what they produce,ie. almost worthless, save the pitiful profit margin, yet you will be encouraged to pay big money for it.
Even on the seedier side of the fence, what would cost a “local” 200,000rp, will cost a white man, 1,000,000rp!!!

A major woodcarving establishment in Ubud sells it’s wares at hugely inflated prices – thus the reason why the “boss” drives a Toyota Landcruiser. The wood is NOT hardwood, so the villagers can carve with ease, and reproduce hundreds of similar articles at will, which they store most conveniently out of sight. Your incredibly expensive major purchase will crack and split within a few years, and be worth nothing, even visually.

Transport drivers at one establishment are told that for every one million rupiah spent, they will get 1%. Very encouraging to a low paid driver, as it doesn’t take too many tourists for him to be able to eat for a day, free!!!

Many countries in this world have some stringent means of enforcing vehicle safety, so that people are driving vehicles that have met government safety standards. Indonesia has none – absolutely nothing, which means that any form of transport, be it tourist bus, car, motorbike, taxi or coach, may be potentially lethal on the road. The most vulnerable are rented motorized transport, that are continually abused and seldomly serviced unless a problem occurs; rectification usually by the most cheapest and substandard means. Nobody cares if your rented vehicle doesn’t make it around the bend because the brakes have failed, and you are more mangled than the wreckage that surrounds you. The owner has taken your rent money first, so you become expendable, and anyway, the vehicle is probably over 10 years old and worth virtually nothing, and even if it does get bent or chopped in half, “we’ll just weld it back together again, fill it with some poor quality petrol, clean up the old spark plugs and stick some Radweld in the radiator. That should keep it going for another set of foolish tourists!” Don’t believe me? Official statistics inform us that 35 people are killed every day in Indonesia on the roads – the largest proportion in Bali, and yes, they are tourists. Who cares? Indonesia doesn’t, or they would have rectified the problem years ago, so why should Bali?


Rent property in Bali as part of a housing complex? Don’t be surprised if a proportion of your money goes towards their ceremonies, corruption payments and wasted energy recourses. Management will often do nothing to help you financially. Residents, leaving their lights on mistakenly in absence, will return to find the same lights still blazing away, and have been, 24hrs a day, even for as long as a whole week!!!
Own a property, and in your absence you will need “heavy duty” security, or otherwise anything internal or external could go missing. If it is sellable, then many Indonesians will take it if they can. It is common to find a branch of your favourite Kamboja missing; locals blaming it on evil spirits and the like. In truth, it was blatant theft.


Stop to help a local lad who has just fallen of his motorcycle? At your peril. From every perceivable corner, locals will appear ready to accuse you of causing the accident, using threatening behaviour and even physical contact. React forcibly against it, either verbally or physically, and you run the risk of some serious injury, or ultimately death – and it wasn’t even your fault!!!


Local government is ridden with corruption. Almost every signature requires bribe money to see your “application”, or whatever, proceed. Virtually no rule is sacrosanct, sufficient money allowing almost anything to occur.


Fall and slip on a wet floor? Your fault; you did not see the water. Break your wrist or whatever in such a type of incident, and you can give up trying to seek compensation. The notaris surely will help you seek such, but ultimately you almost certainly will not win. The notaris will walk away with your money; you will lose the case or give up long before it comes to court, notwithstanding your continued requirement to return to Bali for countless signatures to documents; every flight costing you, not them.


Build a house in Bali, and almost every contractor will charge the full amount for a regurgitated set of plans, that leaves you with a property alike so many others. Try to design one yourself, and at almost every turn you will find your architect culpable of professional negligence, as most are completely incapable of perceiving anything in three dimensions. Eventually, due to their mistakes, costs will become astronomical; all of which you have to pay. During the build process, many orders will be delayed or go missing, or be of such poor quality that they are almost useless to use. Short cuts abound, from putting earth into cement, using lower grade steel, no interlinking between walls and pillars, lorry loads dumped off down the road so friends can collect a proportion of what you have already paid for, and countless other thefts of which you will probably never know, because your contractor will hide all those extra costs in the total bill for your build.

This will also happen with the “bribe” payments to authorities, where your building breaks regulations. The powers that be, love these, as they can ask for more money. Perhaps the most common, is the failure of many properties to be built the correct distance from the road. You the owner, will probably never know the amount that you were “forced” to pay; it being hidden in the total cost. Don’t forget, when your contractor adds 20% to your bill as his fee, he is also doing that to your “bribe” payments!!!

Restaurants universally, except for a pitiful few, charge large amounts for small amounts, and often provide the cheapest “cuts”. Beds of lettuce, larger plates, longer glasses filled with ice, lots of “cheap stuff” rice, are just but a few of the tricks they adopt to con the tourists into believing that they have been served a quality meal. “Eat as much as you like” establishments know all to well, that whilst some men can eat a considerable amount of food, most do not, and neither do women and children, and they will quickly encourage you to order your drinks first, without ever telling you, until you find out for yourself when you get to the end of the buffet, that coffee and tea are “free”, and part of the service for which you have already paid. That is equally deceit!


A rummage through a Bali Advertiser newspaper reveals an article from di Mare’s restaurant, concluding with these last two statements:
1 – Always a 20% discount for local residents, and
2 – dimare.com.au

So, it would seem that the owner and/or manager is perhaps Australian, and is cheating the Australian tourists out of 20%, after all, if you can easily offer a discount to some, then it is somebody else who has to pay for it, so not only do the tourists have to pay full price, but they are also subsidising the locals to a tune of 20% unknowingly. I wonder how many tourists would confirm in the positive when asked, “Would you like to pay an extra 20% for your meal so that we may offer the locals their meal 20% cheaper?” Of course, if your answer to that question is “NO!”, then you really have to consider whether Bali is the place for your holiday, because, for the majority of establishments where you eat, that will be exactly what you are doing.


High class establishments are often discovered by mistake, when having eaten your meal in considerably shorter a time than most, with it’s wonderful presentation and sickly subservience of the waiter, you are presented with an inordinately large bill, with all the respect of a grovelling pauper.
Many restaurants offer a “bribe” to the transport driver, so it becomes almost impossible to be taken to the finest restaurant in Bali, where the incredibly diverse menu is served according to your choice, on simple tables in basic surroundings, but with a taste and flamboyance that defeats every establishment, at prices that will leave a group of four with far more money than most others can manage with one. In this restaurant, there is no “bribe” available to drivers, because “locals” know, by reputation, of it’s quality, quantity and economy. It is, at you might imagine, always well supplied with customers, and upon leaving, you will notice that your stomach has been very well supplied too, with a considerable amount of wonderful food - cheaply.

Food preparation techniques are positively appalling, with unwashed, unprotected hands being used in filthy surroundings, sometimes with mould growing on the walls, and adjacent to open sewers. Hands also, that can be doing a range of other uncivilised, disgusting activities. A little extra observation when viewing relevant TV programmes will confirm this.

Of course, if you happen to be proximate to a Ngaben ceremony, when they are burning the bones of a deceased person, you may well, as they do, be breathing in the airborne ash as you eulogise over the apparent quality of your dinner. That, whichever way you look at it, unknowingly or not, is cannibalism!!!

Almost everyone will ask you what your business is, so that they may be part of it, or establish ways of receiving an income from it.

Countless businesses fail, the proof of which is evident throughout Bali in closed down establishments, decaying buildings, and deserted hotels.
Nobody cares either. The locals just find other people to rip off before they move onto the next. Let us not forget the “cheap stuff” video shops either. Sure, we all know that they are illegal copies – or at least most of us do, the others perhaps caring not even to think about it – but at least we expect them to work. Really? A significant number do not work at all; others have bad sound, or a poor picture, or both, and of course, for many of the tourists, they only find this out when they return home to their native countries, and what are they going to do about it then? Now, if you think that’s bad, certainly the video shop owners, and sometimes the senior staff or even assistants, are well aware of which copies are good and which are not.
Will they be telling you though? I think not. That is fraud.


A trip to see the Dolphins off Uluwatu will cost you about 90 US dollars each, or approximately 900,000rp. So a husband and wife pay 1,800,000rp and the cost of transport, probably a minimum of 50,000rp. Total = 1,850,000rp. Get a driver to take you to Lovina in north Bali, and you can get to see the Dolphins for less than 100,000rp, plus the transport. Maybe a total of 350,000rp. But then the tourists are not readily told about the Lovina Dolphins. Why? Because the transport drivers get bigger cuts for the Uluwatu Dolphins!


There again, tourists are always taken to the office, where they pay full price. Indonesia, being so corrupt, is open to special deals. Take aside a “rep” who has told you 3 times that you must go through the office, and he will happily do a special deal with you, maybe even lowering the price by half, some of which of course, goes to him. And they still make profit – but nobody’s going to be telling you that, are they?

One of the biggest mistakes foreigners make when encountering the locals, is perceiving them as poor, dishevelled people, who are extremely short of money, and only able to eat at roadside food stalls, known as Warungs. Indeed many are like this, but unlike the staff of many businesses, the owners are able to drive around in expensive cars; enjoy flights throughout Indonesia; pay considerable sums of money to family and friends, and frequent the finest Hotels and restaurants. Yes, you are making some very rich people, richer!!!

Whichever way you look at it, tourists are used and abused and fleeced of as much money as possible, as the long term development of Bali is of no personal interest to most Balinese; short term personal gain is the only agenda.

If it is not forthcoming, the possibility of retribution follows. Only recently, a tourist was murdered in the Seminyak area, and another in Tabanan brutally hacked to pieces by his assailants, his head and legs remaining unfound. More recently, another mutilated body was discovered in the mangroves near Ngurah Rai airport.


Whilst in every society there is the good, the bad and the ugly, the viscous brutes of Bali, act and deliver like animals, as an uncivilized, uncontrollable force of vengeance, so if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, little mercy will be shown, but a considerable amount of aggression will be.
A visit to Kintamani/Batur will require you – the tourist - to pay for an entry ticket to the area, whether you stop or not, because you are seeing the “view”, even though there are many other routes in, that do NOT require payment. Clearly written on the ticket is the word, “retribusi” – the Indonesian word for “retribution”, ie. a punishment. Interestingly, if the cloud is so dense and so low, that no view is available, you still have to pay!

Maybe you have stayed away from Bali because of the bombs, but the honest truth of the matter is, that no significant proportion of tourists are ever directly influenced by anything explosive. Far more prudent a stance would be taken, if out of principle, you objected to being manipulated and having your dignity subversively removed, which for almost every tourist who arrives in Bali, is clearly the result of the interaction with the Balinese.
Only the other day, a friend of mine unfortunately fell off his motorcycle. Badly shaken and bruised, with lacerations down his leg, a painful knee and pulled chest muscle, he was left to struggle back upon his motorcycle and make his own way back home. Only when arriving home did he realise, that the zip pocket on his shorts was now open, and the contents gone. Yes, even when lying there dazed and battered, the local Balinese took full advantage and removed his wallet.


Yes, if you want to visit Bali, then you will be punished, one way or the other, whether you know it or not!!!!!
 

Bert Vierstra

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Homeless
I have been a cabdriver in Amsterdam, I got money when I took people to a certain Diamond store.

So I did.

And when they bought something, I got comission as well.

This happens in Amsterdam, Bali, and plenty of other places as well.

And the rest of you story, well, you generalise. Of course some of it is true, but to say that you are punished when you visit Bali is way over the top.

Bought some nice DVD's in Kuta a few days ago, and I was allowed to check them before I bought them, no problem...

Ok, Bali could me more friendly to tourists, I agree. There are scams, as there are anywhere in the world. I also have been cheated, and felt shit about it.

Now, you live in Bali, right?

Are you planning to stay?
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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Ubud, Bali
Geez! If "balibounder1" leaned to use paragraphs, he/she might find more folks willing to read, and respond.

Phew! I guess Bert was able to navigate that post, so I'll try again.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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Ubud, Bali
Wadding through “balibounder1” post, a “stream of consciousness” I guess, here is my take.

Bali cheats and punishes tourists

Bali is portrayed as “The Island of the Gods”, and an idyllic isle worthy of any tourist vacation. In truth, the real Bali it would seem, is one of a decaying infrastructure, corruption, incivility and victimization. Essentially, Indonesia is poor, and the Bali inhabitants appear to do everything they can to encourage the tourists to spend exorbitant amounts of money at every opportunity.

I’m having a lot of fun now, reading this. Anyone else?

As Bert pointed out, the commission “way of business” is a fact of life. The real bottom line is, ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE PRICE, OR NOT? Furthermore, why should any consumer really care where the money, (spent for the purchase) goes? If you spend money to buy something you want, and at a price you are happy with, then, does it matter to you if the seller burns your money? Where the money goes after your purchase should not concern the buyer!

This quote is a classic!

Restaurants universally, except for a pitiful few, charge large amounts for small amounts, and often provide the cheapest “cuts”. Beds of lettuce, larger plates, longer glasses filled with ice, lots of “cheap stuff” rice, are just but a few of the tricks they adopt to con the tourists into believing that they have been served a quality meal.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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Ubud, Bali
Oops, here's some more:

Rent property in Bali as part of a housing complex? Don’t be surprised if a proportion of your money goes towards their ceremonies

Your're damn right a "porportion of your money goes towards their ceremnies!"

Gee, this just goes on and on:

Many countries in this world have some stringent means of enforcing vehicle safety, so that people are driving vehicles that have met government safety standards. Indonesia has none – absolutely nothing, which means that any form of transport, be it tourist bus, car, motorbike, taxi or coach, may be potentially lethal on the road.

Indonesia has a very enforceable safety belt law, as well as a helmet law for the bikers.

Having many friends and family in the restaurant buisness, I really enjoyed this piece:

Food preparation techniques are positively appalling, with unwashed, unprotected hands being used in filthy surroundings, sometimes with mould growing on the walls, and adjacent to open sewers. Hands also, that can be doing a range of other uncivilised, disgusting activities. A little extra observation when viewing relevant TV programmes will confirm this.

Viewing TV programs will “confirm this?” Confirm what?

Bounder, I don't agree with you at all.
 

Ipanema

Member
Aug 19, 2004
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Balibounder1

I really don't know what to say. Your in their country you play by their rules Most third world countries that I have travelled have two prices (except Fiji who have 3) one for locals and one for tourists. I have no problem in paying more for trips, food whatever than the locals. I suppose it has to be in perspective. I have to agree with Roy in that if you are happy paying the price you have negotiated (remember everything in Bali is negotible) what does it matter what they do with the money. Once the sale is complete it is their money. I have been travelling Bali for 20 years and I can honestly say that I have never had a episode that made me regret that I ever came to Bali.

Maybe I am lucky, and with your feelings about Bali I hope your not living there. I would be interested to know where you are living. If not on Bali then where? Is it like/unlike Bali.
 

Jimbo

Active Member
Jan 11, 2005
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Manchester and Makassar
I well remember the Balibounder topic of "all Australians are wimps" He made one post and then never appeared again. He is a wind up merchant. He will not answer because then he will have to justify his remarks. Not very often I am insulting but in his case..............Nah he is not worth it.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
Well done Jimbo! If I was able to make that connection to the Aussies as wimps post, I could have saved some time by not bothering to reply.
 

maurits

Member
Oct 10, 2004
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0
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Belanda
Balibounder, I can imagine people are double crossing you, having such opinions about Balinese people.

I hope you will learn how to make a text attractive. Please do save me your B*llshit stories, and make your story shorter, just come to the core of it.

Well, my opinion... kamu bohong...
 

Git

Member
Jul 16, 2005
235
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dutch /indonesian in the usa for now
Mr Balibounder
You are responsible for your "OWN ACTIONS".
Yes some of these things do happen in bali,but there are always two sides to every story,this is only 'your views',those that are born/live/expat in bali have their own stories but why do they choose to stay or keep comming back to bali?
Why would a well established male/female 'choose' to live in bali?
I know many many that do ,yes even with all you have mentioned......why...perhaps we need imput from the other on this matter. You only see on the surface ,your eyes do not see with all your senses in tune as you must be when you partake of bali.
Yes the typical 'tourist' gets run throug the muck but this happenes in all countries not only in bali,common that's not fair. The saying goes "do as the natives do" when traveling abroad,do try and 'blend in',learn their customs,have respect for one of the oldest cultures in the world.
Or say what can i learn from these beautifull balinese,how can i help,how can i contribute,how can i be open to their lifestyle, can i make some difference in my being in bali,how can my resources from the western world (knowledge,education ,money)help these beautifull kind balinese people.
The truth is you will never see this other side........The truth will set you free. You have your mind made up.
Yes it is easy to vacation in Hawaii lay there in the sun drinking your $10 drink staying in a hotel that cost $400-$800 per night and stay somewhat secure.
When i was in hawaii years ago with my son (in a buget hotel package deal !) I sat and watched a native hawaiian steal all the backpacks from some college students while they went out for a shortswim. Yes this was a "local". I did file a police report and gave a verry detailed drawing of this local tatoo and all. I have many stories like this one......many. So dont single out bali...... it happens all over.
The balinese are really poor and the means of living is horrid some have no water,food,shelter,medicine,work,education,clothing......or all of the above. The economy is getting desperate due to all the bombings,loss of wages (good wages for a balinese is aprox $1- per day) is staggering. They will do what ever to bring food home,keep their family alive. A father struggling to support his family on $1 per day................think about it.
Gina Tyler
 

jill

Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Alexandra new zealand
ha Balibounder
I think you have chosen the wrong place to whine about Bali ,as all on hear love Bali , the people there, & the way of life ...

I think you need to take off your rose tinted glasses & look at the rest of the world , you will then see that the only difference is that in bali they don't bother to hide the fact that they get commission ect.

As for prices for once I'll agree with Roy also , it's up to you if you pay that price or not , me I get better prices than my Bali mates .

o yes real Bali mates not out to rip me off or take my money...

sorry hunny you have it all wrong, go back to the shelf you crawled off
 

jodymc

New Member
Apr 18, 2005
5
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Australia
Balibounder1,

If you put as much effort into being positive as you have done being so negative, imagine what good you could do in the world?

Business is business my friend, it is the purchaser who makes the final choice. In fact, I really don't mind paying extra for my wares, it is still so cheap.

When I first went to Bali I bartered along with the best of them until I realized I was only paying (in some cases) 50 cents extra. Big Deal....
I figure it's a small donation to a family in need. I really don't see many rich Balinese slogging away at a food/clothing stall to make a few extra rph.

Have a lovely day

Jodymc
 

Ipanema

Member
Aug 19, 2004
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Hey I was trying to be nice but I did not make the connection that you are the 'whimp man'.

Now I totally agree with everyone else and believe you hit and run.

Not even worth the read. I for one wont be wasting my time reading anything from BaliBounder1.
 

JabberWokker

Member
Nov 10, 2005
293
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Bali
balibounder1:

Personally I could not be bothered to read your whole post, so skipped to Bert’s comments and then read Roy’s synopsis.

balibounder1 said:
I am, an English guy

My sum up is your British, so you should be used to getting ripped off. We call our country “Rip of Britain”. We pay for speeding tickets on our roads through speed cameras – a lot of the money goes to London, what's that got to do with speeding? We pay road tax, only 10% of this goes to fixing the roads. Should I go on…. Britain as in many countries is corrupt. We just do it with more elegance. Do you think the war was about weapons of mass destruction or oil?

I like my country and love the people. Personally I am not proud of your earlier strong post about Australians and this one adds to my embarrassment having you as a fellow Englishman :shock: .

No need to comment, my advice is be cool 8) accept the ways of the locals and you will enjoy life. :D otherwise off to Spain for you, there are plenty other uncouth Brits there.

Best of luck and don't take things so seriously. :)
 

lozza

Member
Mar 9, 2005
38
0
6
FNQ OZ
To bb1,

You are the wimp and more correctly a coward.

You come on this gr8 forum post a load of crapola and never respond to anyone who has made any comment about your posts.

Leave it alone will ya EH!
 

Sergio

Member
Dec 6, 2004
249
0
16
Ottawa, Canada
JabberWokker said:
balibounder1:Personally I could not be bothered to read your whole post, so skipped to Bert’s comments and then read Roy’s synopsis.

Damn it JabberWokker, you stole my line... lol

After reading his quotes and what those whom I know and respect here had to say I could care less to read the rest of it! But I would like to thank balibounder1 for serving as a punching bag for all, it's a very therapeutic way to relieve some stress... lol... I've never seen some one offer themselves up for a free for all like that... lol... oh wait, yes I have "Assie's are Wimps"... lol... but thank you, maybe it will keep some of the more intelligent members here from venting on each other on actually worth reading threads (like I've been noticing lately.) ;)

I know I feel better now... lol... peace!

*sneaks in one last jab* :lol: