A pleasant surprise: KITAP application in Bali

Success.Bali

:icon_lol:My wife is Indonesian, I am German and we are married for a bit longer (32 years) than the minimum two years required by the law to be entitled for a KITAP. We live in Bali for over three years now.After three KITAS approvals, arranged by an agency, I went to them beginning of June and asked: "What about a KITAP application now? Can you do that under the new law?" "Sure, sure" he said, "it will cost you 15 million rupiah" My surprised question what that amount might be for, as the previous KITAS visa had cost a "mere" 5, 4 million including one year Multiple Re-entry permission, he replied "but you get a five years visa now for it and we know how it works to get it under the new law. We also know whom to talk to in Immigration", and with a light rising of the eyebrows "and we know where to place the money at the right people". I tried to bargain with him, resulting in his very arrogant "you can try it on your own". "Which I will do" I promised him and left.Ten and a half weeks later, on 3. September this year, I had my KITAP for five years and a multiple re-entry permission for two years, all for IDR 5,386,000. My wife and I needed 10 visits to Kantor Imigrasi respectively Kantor Wilayah in Denpasar, a bit of DHL service to get documents to Jakarta, a family member there to help deliver them to Direktur Jenderal Imigrasi, pick them up 2 weeks later and return it to us.We did it on our own. We prepared ourselves with Atlantis' information on Living in Indonesia forum before starting. It worked smooth, people at KanIm or KanWil in Denpasar were friendly and helpful. There seemed to be procedures in place, including timeframes, to which they kept. Forms were readily available, explanations given as to what to do, which documents to bring, including stamps to attach, photos and photocopies to be made, wedding certificates and consulate confirmations to request etc.The interview with an official was smooth and friendly. Harmless money questions were asked but no account statements or other evidence requested.No one ever gave the slightest impression to expect money beyond the official fees, no one left us sitting somewhere around for longer periods, there appeared even smiles every now and then on their faces and some recognized us on follow up visits (not to their counter) with a nod or a friendly smile.Did we have butterflies in our stomach at the beginning? You bet! Did we have all the confidence that everything would run well? Not at all. Did we believe our perception and expectation that all staff at KanIm or KanWil can only be corrupt and targeting our money? Absolutely! But they proved our expectations and perceptions wrong. That is for me a very positive and pleasant surprise. And besides having saved an amount of money we have raised our knowledge and confidence in dealing with the administration here. That is the best result!And it shows that some people here make a living out of our wrong perceptions and ignorance!

BKT

Same thing with me, I received mine a few weeks ago. I applied for mine in Singaraja and paid what was on the board. The whole process was smooth sailing. I was planning to have someone pick up my letter from Jakarta but before I got the chance immigration had already phoned and told me it had arrived. So glad I don't have to deal with Visas for the next 5 years

davita

Success.baliThank you for your excellent post above....you have made my day with your story and I hope many others may emulate you.Well done, Sir!Unfortunately my Kitas is a retirement kitas so I have to use the agents.

alex margou

Yes. Well done Success.Bali and BKT! :applause:I envy you! I share Davita's predicament, as I also am stuck with an agent doing the retirement KITAP and MERPs. :icon_sad:

spicyayam

Thanks for sharing. So you didn't have to go to Jakarta in person?

Success.Bali

Thanks for sharing. So you didn't have to go to Jakarta in person?[/QUOTE]No,I didn't have to go there in person. I issued a power of attorney to a maid who was delivering, that was OK. Before I got my documents returned KanIm called already my wife and told her to let me come for picture and fingerprints taking....

Success.Bali

Thanks, love to hear that it made your day! :-)

Success.Bali

I heard about that. I still can't believe it is true. May be it is a case for going to Direktur Jenderal Imigrasi in Jakarta to complain. But then,I really don't know enough about retirement visas.

alex margou

I heard about that. I still can't believe it is true. May be it is a case for going to Direktur Jenderal Imigrasi in Jakarta to complain. But then,I really don't know enough about retirement visas.[/QUOTE]It is true and the reason is this - about 15 years ago (is that right?), when the Indonesian Government decided to create a system of retirement permits, they didn't make any effort to try to make a new system - one that would be appropriate for retirees. All they did was to take an existing system and use it to cobble together some new mish-mash.So they looked at the existing system of KITAS/KITAP for working folk and said "how can we adapt this?". They did away with the permit from the Manpower ministry and the $100 monthly fee to ... (where does that money go... ?) because retirees aren't working. But, [COLOR="#FF0000"]and here's the tragic bit[/COLOR], they kept the SPONSOR idea and decided that we retirees would be shown as "working" for our sponsor's companies - our "jobs" being - LANJUT USIA (=old age).On both my KITAP and my SKLD (Certificate of Police Registration) my PEKERJAAN (= work) is shown as LANJUT USIA. Saves them the bother of creating a new system.So, just like you, we have to have a SPONSOR. But for us, the only people who are allowed to sponsor retirees are greedy bastard licensed agents who have us by the short and curlies. Everything we need to do such as renew KITAS/KITAP or apply for MERPs has to be done with a letter from them - no sponsor letter = no KITAS/KITAP renewal or MERP.Now, do you think they will just give us that letter free and let us do it ourselves like you did?

hermit

alex margou

Alex,i wonder about the legality of needing a sponsorletter for the multiple exit-reentry permit.Somehow it is too crazy adult people need a letter from a sponsor to allow them to leave the country.It seems to contradict one of the basic freedoms that people are supposed to have.The whole exit-permit system seems to be unique in the world anyway,never heard about any other country that had it.Success.Bali:do you need authorization from your wife to obtain the exit permit?(No pun intended)[/QUOTE]Well, where to start? OK - "Basic freedoms....." - Indonesia ....? Ask Ahmadis and Shias about basic freedoms!Next, the point about a MERP is not really about leaving Indonesia. The important thing is about getting back in again (with a suitcase full of Gouda?). It's the "[I]re-entry[/I]" bit that's important.Finally, I went to Imigrasi in Renon about 3 years ago and asked "I have a KITAS LANSIA. Am I allowed to do all the paperwork to renew my MERP myself?""Yes!" they said."Oh good!" I replied. "Please tell me, how do I do it?""Well" they said "First you get a letter from your sponsor and then ........................... " :icon_sad:

Markit

alex margou

Does anyone know the process it takes to become and "Agent"? Seems like someone here, or the wife of someone here on the forum could have a nice little earner and we "the victims" a reliable agent with reduced rates and the fecking vulture agents "sweet feck all" if that could be organized. But what do I know?[/QUOTE][url]http://balipod.com/business-bali-f21/comparison-20-cities-doing-business-indonesia-over-2012-a-t9479.html#post86977[/url]

spicyayam

[COLOR=#333333]Seems like someone here, or the wife of someone here on the forum could have a nice little earner and we "the victims" a reliable agent with reduced rates and the fecking vulture agents "sweet feck all" if that could be organized. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]Actually I thought it might be a good business for my wife when we first moved here. She certainly tried and made some contacts at immigration. Not surprisingly no one wanted to make it easy to get started. At the minimum you need to set up a PT company. It is not cheap at all to get the "licence" and apparently they keep putting the price up substantially each year. I know people like to complain about the high prices agents charge, but I am pretty sure they aren't the ones benefiting. In the end it just seemed too much of a headache and very risky as you are staking your whole business on a dodgy system.

lumumba

((The whole exit-permit system seems to be unique in the world anyway,never heard about any other country that had it.))Only a money maker.....bunch of thieves

Markit

Actually I thought it might be a good business for my wife when we first moved here. She certainly tried and made some contacts at immigration. Not surprisingly no one wanted to make it easy to get started. At the minimum you need to set up a PT company. It is not cheap at all to get the "licence" and apparently they keep putting the price up substantially each year. I know people like to complain about the high prices agents charge, but I am pretty sure they aren't the ones benefiting. In the end it just seemed too much of a headache and very risky as you are staking your whole business on a dodgy system.[/QUOTE]Well I wonder if your lovely wife would be interested in progressing with the process if she was supported with the costs on a subscription level? What comes to mind is something along the lines of: each subscriber pays X IDR into the plan when she is accredited has X years free letters and then a reduced (much!) rate for renewal letter thereafter.

spicyayam

If everyone on retirement visas pooled their money together to start a visa company, I am pretty sure that you won't be able to save money that you would otherwise be paying to your agent now. The government made it easier for mixed couples to get visas, which I am sure made some people in immigration unhappy. There were some Indonesian spouse groups that pressured the government to make the changes. So maybe all of you retirees need to get together and push for changes to the system. I can't imagine it coming anytime soon though. I think the next likely change will be some kind of visa for Indonesians who changed their citizenship as davita mentioned here: [url]http://balipod.com/bali-visa-questions-answers-f42/indonesian-diaspora-meeting-t9437.html[/url]

alex margou

... I can't imagine it coming any[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]time[/COLOR][/B] soon though....[/QUOTE]Ahh! This is the one commodity that we retirees don't have so much of!:angel:

davita

As Spicyayam succinctly says..there doesn't appear to be any political will or leadership to change anything regarding immigration.Pressure groups have managed, to some extent, to embarrass the Gov't over its treatment of spouses of nationals and, imo, this is the way to go. If, given an opportunity in the media to ask the question, with regard to 'Indonesia's stand on human rights, it may get international attention and further embarrass those in Gov't who are wanting RI to get on the world's stage....witness SBY and his offer to Myanmar.More pressure in this area, particularly as the International media will soon be attending to the APEC meeting and upcoming elections, should prevail.With regard to the retiree status I think every opportunity should be made to show how a better system could advantage RI's economic welfare. The Philippines gave dual nationality to all it's ex-citizens who wanted to return, so long as they brought their wealth back. Malaysia offers its MM2H program, the main requirement being applicants need to deposit a fixed amount in MYR in a Malaysian based bank. I understand this has brought much foreign money into circulation which means the banking system can lower its reserve of foreign currency.I know, some here will suggest I'm pissing in the wind but, any debate on this subject is surely beneficial...I cannot see any point to argue with the entrenched state of mind on Indonesian xenophobia...other than to embarrass!