rickerw
What I have learned about all this over the past year is that there is no consistency in the policies whatsoever. Your best bet is to get an agent with good connections or, if you want to do it yourself, go around to different Kantor Imigrasi until you get an answer you like. It all depends on who is at the desk when you show up....
Fred2
The easy way is to know the rules, print them out & show them to immigration. The further form Jakarta you are the slower the info gets to them & when you get to know your local immigration officer the easier it gets. I have had a exit permit done in 3hr, a 12 mth multi exit permit in 2.5 days & no extra charge. If you do a search on the forum I think you will get the answer to any problem or just ask as most of us have in some way been there & done it.You can convert a sosbud visa to a Kitas at any stage, if you are asked to wait for 2 months smile & wait if you are not in a hurry, it cost a extra $50 but by that time you have made friends, that make things easy.
Mark
Ok, after an exhaustive search through various threads on relevant fora where there seem to be some fairly knowledgeable and experienced people posting, I believe that the situation of Sosbud to a wife-sponsored Kitap (assuming at least two years of marriage) is as follows: First, while a foreigner married to an Indonesian for at least two years is legally entitled to apply directly for Kitap under legislation UU6-2011, there are no regulations in place yet to implement this law and therefore immigration apparently does not have any procedures for how to do it. Accordingly, the collective wisdom seems to be to obtain a single entry sosbud, apply straight away for a spouse sponsored Kitas upon arrival in Indonesia, and then, upon receipt of the Kitas, apply immediately for conversion to Kitap under the new law. This seems to be a pretty messed up approach, but for now it is what it is.
gilbert de jong
@mark...very true, since there is no box to tick for the option converting from sosbud straight to ITAP on the form. from ITAS to ITAP yes.
Fred2
I think immigration like you to have a Kitas for 2 years then apply for a Kitap, not just be married for 2 years. Thats how they explained it to me.
Atlantis
I would also be interested to hear anyone's experiences and views, including Atlantis from the other forum, who interestingly has not addressed this particular issue as far as I can make out from the thousands of posts there.[/QUOTE]Just ask, mate, and I will oblige... :icon_e_wink:As per article 152 PP 31/2013 the categories of people which are authorized to get an ITAP directly are as follow:- former dual citizen kids (born from a mixed marriage) who have chosen to become foreigner.- foreign kids, born in Indonesia, of a foreigner holding an ITAP- Indonesian having lost his indonesian citizenship while being in Indonesia (ex: those who got unlucky enough to be found with a foreign passport)Source: Pasal 152 PP 31/2013[I](1) Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagai rohaniawan, pekerja, investor, dan lanjut usia;b. keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;c. suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; dand. Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia dan eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan gandaRepublik Indonesia.(2) Izin Tinggal Tetap yang diberikan kepada Orang Asing sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (1) juga dapatdiberikan kepada:a. eks subyek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda Republik Indonesia yang memilih kewarganegaraanasing;b. anak yang lahir di Indonesia dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; danc. warga negara Indonesia yang kehilangan kewarganegaraan Indonesia di Wilayah Indonesia.[B](3) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi Orang Asing sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (1) diberikan melalui alih status.(4) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi Orang Asing sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (2) diberikan secara langsung tanpa melalui alih status.[/B][/I]It is a pretty restrictive interpretation of UU 6/2011 to be honest, but it is the one legally prevailing to date and the one chosen by the government. Article 60 UU 6/2011 could have authorized a more lenient interpretation. Other categories of people eligible for an ITAP must follow the "conversion route" (see art 152 ayat 3 quoted above). Still as per PP 31/2013, the conversion route works as follow:an izin tinggal kunjungan (ex: a sosbud) can ONLY be converted in an ITAS and not in an ITAP.an ITAS can converted in an ITAP.Source: Pasal 165 PP 31/2013[I](1) Izin Tinggal yang telah diberikan kepada Orang Asing dapat dialihstatuskan.[B](2) Izin Tinggal yang dapat dialihstatuskan meliputi:[/B]a. Izin Tinggal kunjungan menjadi Izin Tinggal terbatas;b. Izin Tinggal terbatas menjadi Izin Tinggal Tetap; danc. Izin Tinggal kunjungan dan Izin Tinggal terbatas menjadi Izin Tinggal dinas.(3) Alih status Izin Tinggal sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (2) ditetapkan dengan Keputusan Menteri.[/I]This is the route MOST categories eligible to an ITAP will have to follow, including those married with an Indonesian citizen . Basically, if you follow the sosbud route, you will have to go through the conversion of an ITAS first, then through the conversion of said ITAS in an ITAP.Unfortunately, I don't have much time to post on many forums. If my above explanation requires further elaboration, I will try to keep an eye on this thread.
Atlantis
I think immigration like you to have a Kitas for 2 years then apply for a Kitap, not just be married for 2 years. Thats how they explained it to me.[/QUOTE]They are clowns. Google Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 31 tahun 2013 tentang Peraturan Pelaksanaan Undang Undang nomor 6 tahun 2011 tentang Keimigrasian. It is the one I quoted in my above post. Print it and have them read it. There is strictly no mention of "a KITAS for 2 years" for members of mixed marriage family.Also, point them the article 60 ayat 2 Undang Undang nomor 6 tahun 2011 which stipulates:Pasal 60 (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf a diberikan setelah pemohon tinggal menetap selama 3 (tiga) tahun berturut-turut dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada Pemerintah Republik Indonesia. [B](2) Untuk mendapatkan Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b diberikan setelah usia perkawinannya mencapai 2 (dua) tahun dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada Pemerintah Republik Indonesia.[/B] (3) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf c dan huruf d dapat langsung diberikan. A rough translation (sorry, I am not an english native speaker as you certainly have noticed) of ayat 2 would be " For an applicant as per article 54 ayat 1 letter b. the permanent residency permit may be issued after two years of marriage and after that the applicant has signed a Statement of Integration to the attention of the government of Indonesia.For the record, article 54 ayat 1 letter b. concerns members of mixed marriage family.
davita
Hi AtlantisI'm a little confused about this....Quote " Indonesian having lost his indonesian citizenship while being in Indonesia (ex: those who got unlucky enough to be found with a foreign passport)" UnqouteAs you know, my wife was previously a WNI but, whilst in Canada, became a Canadian citizen and allowed her RI passport to expire. She still has it and her birth certificate as evidence.Does your interpretation mean, because she was not [B]in[/B] Indonesia when she lost her citizenship, that she cannot change her current kitas to get a direct Kitap?btw we have friends here, similarly exWNI but now British, that are also looking for an answer to this new rule...we both have some months left on retirement Kitas but would like to change to Kitap, when available, and avoid those agent's costs to sponsor retirement visas.
Atlantis
Does your interpretation mean, because she was not [B]in[/B] Indonesia when she lost her citizenship, that she cannot change her current kitas to get a direct Kitap?[/QUOTE]Hi Davita,Yes, you got it correctly.Obviously the government has decided, when they enacted PP 31/2013 to drastically reduce the number of "direct KITAP" issued, while they could have been authorized to issue said direct KITAP to much more categories of people if one considers UU 6/2011. A note about your comment "she cannot change her current kitas to get a direct Kitap". Bear in mind that you can convert an ITAS in an ITAP [U]ONLY if the sponsor is identical[/U]. Ex: You can convert directly an ITAS sponsored by an indonesian spouse in an ITAP sponsored by an indonesian spouse BUT you can't convert directly an ITAS Lansia (retirement permit) in an ITAP sponsored by an indonesian spouse for example. You must first go through a procedure of change of sponsor/alih sponsor. Concerning your wife, she has two options:Option 1. Changing sponsorship of her actual KITAS to become a KITAS Eks WNI sponsored by a member of her family. The alih sponsor procedure I was refering to above.Option 2. Terminating her present KITAS (ie via an EPO), applying for a sosbud sponsored by a member (obviously WNI) of her family then converting it in an ITAS Eks WNI, still sponsored by the same member of the family.Though the first solution may appear easier, it ain't the case. I've helped a few friends through this procedure of change of sponsor in the past few years and can tell you first hand that it ain't fun at all. The second option is much better, in my opinion, at least for the moment and until Depkumham (Ministry of Justice and Human Rights) enacts the necessary additional regulations to smoothen it.Once her KITAS will be issued, you may be issued a dependant KITAS yourself without the need of an agent and with not much hassles. It would obviously drop drastically the cost of your KITAS. As you are aware, the PNBP (legal fee) concerning a KITAS is IDR 700.000 (+IDR 55.000 for the biometrik pics).More important: as soon as she has her ITAS, she then will be able to convert it in an ITAP. When her ITAP will be issued, YOU will be authorized to apply for an ITAP as a dependant. All these procedures can be done without having to deal with an agent. It may be time consuming but to be honest it is no big deal. Apologies for all the acronyms/bahasa indonesia, but I think you know enough of Indonesian law to grasp their meaning and more importantly you have read enough of my posts so far to decipher my english. :icon_wink:I suggest that you also read the two links below which are threads I wrote two months ago concerning the new Peraturan Pelaksanaan UU 6/2011 which has been enacted in April. Unfortunately I didn't have time yet to complete the last part (about ITAP) of the second link. As we say in Manado, I will do it [I]sedikit ley[/I]... (one day... soon).[url=http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/33835-Peraturan-Pelaksanaan-UU-6-2011-Visa-and-Paspor-RI]Peraturan Pelaksanaan UU 6/2011 - Visa and Paspor RI[/url][url=http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/33902-Peraturan-Pelaksanaan-UU-6-2011-Izin-Tinggal-Izin-Keimigrasian]Peraturan Pelaksanaan UU 6/2011 - Izin Tinggal/Izin Keimigrasian[/url]Regards,O.
davita
Hi Davita,Yes, you got it correctly.Obviously the government has decided, when they enacted PP 31/2013 to drastically reduce the number of "direct KITAP" issued, while they could have been authorized to issue said direct KITAP to much more categories of people if one considers UU 6/2011. A note about your comment "she cannot change her current kitas to get a direct Kitap". Bear in mind that you can convert an ITAS in an ITAP [U]ONLY if the sponsor is identical[/U]. Ex: You can convert directly an ITAS sponsored by an indonesian spouse in an ITAP sponsored by an indonesian spouse BUT you can't convert directly an ITAS Lansia (retirement permit) in an ITAP sponsored by an indonesian spouse for example. You must first go through a procedure of change of sponsor/alih sponsor. Concerning your wife, she has two options:Option 1. Changing sponsorship of her actual KITAS to become a KITAS Eks WNI sponsored by a member of her family. The alih sponsor procedure I was refering to above.Option 2. Terminating her present KITAS (ie via an EPO), applying for a sosbud sponsored by a member (obviously WNI) of her family then converting it in an ITAS Eks WNI, still sponsored by the same member of the family.Though the first solution may appear easier, it ain't the case. I've helped a few friends through this procedure of change of sponsor in the past few years and can tell you first hand that it ain't fun at all. The second option is much better, in my opinion, at least for the moment and until Depkumham (Ministry of Justice and Human Rights) enacts the necessary additional regulations to smoothen it.Once her KITAS will be issued, you may be issued a dependant KITAS yourself without the need of an agent and with not much hassles. It would obviously drop drastically the cost of your KITAS. As you are aware, the PNBP (legal fee) concerning a KITAS is IDR 700.000 (+IDR 55.000 for the biometrik pics).More important: as soon as she has her ITAS, she then will be able to convert it in an ITAP. When her ITAP will be issued, YOU will be authorized to apply for an ITAP as a dependant. All these procedures can be done without having to deal with an agent. It may be time consuming but to be honest it is no big deal. Apologies for all the acronyms/bahasa indonesia, but I think you know enough of Indonesian law to grasp their meaning and more importantly you have read enough of my posts so far to decipher my english. :icon_wink:I suggest that you also read the two links below which are threads I wrote two months ago concerning the new Peraturan Pelaksanaan UU 6/2011 which has been enacted in April. Unfortunately I didn't have time yet to complete the last part (about ITAP) of the second link. As we say in Manado, I will do it [I]sedikit ley[/I]... (one day... soon).[url=http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/33835-Peraturan-Pelaksanaan-UU-6-2011-Visa-and-Paspor-RI]Peraturan Pelaksanaan UU 6/2011 - Visa and Paspor RI[/url][url=http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/33902-Peraturan-Pelaksanaan-UU-6-2011-Izin-Tinggal-Izin-Keimigrasian]Peraturan Pelaksanaan UU 6/2011 - Izin Tinggal/Izin Keimigrasian[/url]Regards,O.[/QUOTE]Thanks O I believe I got it .If I may attempt a try at rationale it appears to me that the original intent of permitting exWNI to return on direct Kitaps (so long as they had evidence of their previous status) is a myth and not available according to updated PP 31/ 2013Two options:-1. One is to transfer her current Retirement Kitas sponsored by the Agent to be sponsored by her brother. You suggest this is extremely difficult to achieve.2. Resign from the retirement visa, which we already paid Rp8M, and leave the country and go back to getting a Sosbud (sponsored again by her brother) then applying for a direct Kitap, using her brother as sponsor, then turn that into a Kitap.The first option makes sense and I think I'll attempt that first...as far as my visa is concerned I'll just stick with my retirement visa until Ita gets hers sorted.Thanks friend for your advice, once again.Keep in touch. D
Atlantis
it appears to me that the original intent of permitting exWNI to return on direct Kitaps (so long as they had evidence of their previous status) is a myth and not available according to updated PP 31/ 2013[/quote]I am afraid, yes. At least, let's say that only few will qualify. There is a lot to say about how UU 6/2011 has been drafted and how some of the articles have been [I]negociated[/I]. Unfortunately this is something I could easily explain in a discussion while sipping a beer or three, but exposing it in a public forum is a bit more sensitive. Anyway, In between May 2011 and April 2013, the government has reconsidered slightly some of the improvement brought by UU 6/2011. Some of the stipulations may be smoothened in the future and I advise you to stay tuned, but for the moment PP 31/2013 doesn't allow much leeway concerning KITAP issued directly.Two options:-1. One is to transfer her current Retirement Kitas sponsored by the Agent to be sponsored by her brother. You suggest this is extremely difficult to achieve.2. Resign from the retirement visa, which we already paid Rp8M, and leave the country and go back to getting a Sosbud (sponsored again by her brother) then applying for a direct Kitap, using her brother as sponsor, then turn that into a Kitap.The first option makes sense and I think I'll attempt that first...as far as my visa is concerned I'll just stick with my retirement visa until Ita gets hers sorted.[/quote]By the time you start option 1., Imigrasi in Bali may be more familiar by the procedure of change of sponsor. In the past, this procedure has been a real pain in the bum for those attempting it. I have often been asked informations about it by friends of forumers but I have always been reluctant to advise them to go for it. It's a total mess, with so far only one regulation dating from 1994 describing it (very briefly). No wonder why Imigrasi officers are panicking when you tell them that you want to do it. I wouldn't say "extremly difficult" but I would say that you have to prepare yourself to hear "it's not possible", "better for you to EPO your KITAS first...", ""it's gonna be vvvvvvvvery long", "alhamdulillah Mister! it's expensive!", "come back tomorrow, the boss is out"...etc to try to discourage you. If you vcan handle it, you will succeed. Just be aware that, as much as I love to deal with pejabat of any administration, D., I would consider twice going through it myself, without having first invested in a few strip of [I]paramex[/I]. Be really ready to face, lack of motivation, incompetence and lack of knowledge. Well, some would be tempted to say that it doesn't differ from the day-to-day life in an immigration office. Believe me, it's worse.Anyway, for multiple reasons, this procedure will become increasingly popular and the government plans to release guidelines to help Imigrasi to deal properly with it. By the time you apply, things may have changed. Thanks friend for your advice, once again.Keep in touch. D[/QUOTE]Your welcome.You know how to find me should you need more informations. :icon_e_biggrin:
bundyrum
you have to be sponsered by yer wife for 2 years on a kitas...then you get a kitap..I have a kitas for 3 years..but it's retirement,as I just got married..so the idea is go to Singapore..get yer sos bud..come back and get yer wife to sponser u for a kitas for 2 years.I don't think u can go to kitap from a sos bud.I just talkd yesterday to a guy who's helpn us can't get much better ,he works in Immigrassi.and he enjoyed his Maccas..lol.I can get a kitap now..but can't work cus it's retirement visa...so I'll jus do the 2 years..with wife..Bali no Hurry...lol.cheers..
moose2015
I am urgently seeking someone who can inform me of the total cost of a KITAP - we have done ourselves, all approved & now the imigrasi rep is informing us that it is 5.5jta when all info I have previously seen states 3.5jta max & scheduled price!! Can any one please inform me of "real price!?"
moose2015
I urgently need someone to inform me of the correct scheduled price of a KITAP....we have done already & just approved AND now imigrasi rep has informed us that it is 5.5jta (not 3.1jta or at best 3.5jta as stated on some sites!) for first 5years.....any one know 'real price?' My wife is 'afraid' (malu) to question Imigrasi however this doesnt seem right and I will question that's for sure.....lol
Fred2
5.5 would include your re-entry permit
rickerw
We paid 3.5 juta 6 months ago.
Fred2
>>Penggantian Izin Tinggal Tetap Elektronik (E-Kitap) masa berlaku 5 tahun karena rusak atau hilang dan masih berlaku per orang Rp. 1.700.000>>Penggantian Izin Tinggal Tetap Non Elektronik untuk jangka waktu yang tidak terbatas karena rusak atau hilang per orang Rp. 3.000.000>>Penggantian Izin Tinggal Tetap Elektronik (E-Kitap) untuk jangka waktu yang tidak terbatas karena rusak atau hilang per orang Rp. 3.200.000>>IZIN MASUK KEMBALI (RE-ENTRY PERMIT)1. Izin masuk kembali untuk beberapa kali perjalanan yang masa berlakunya sama dengan masa berlaku izin tinggal terbatas tetapi tidak lebih dari 6 bulan per orang Rp. 600.0002. Izin masuk kembali untuk beberapa kali perjalanan yang masa berlakunya sama dengan masa berlaku izin tinggal terbatas tetapi tidak lebih dari 1 tahun per orang Rp. 1.000.0003. Izin masuk kembali untuk beberapa kali perjalanan yang masa berlakunya sama dengan masa berlaku izin tinggal terbatas tetapi tidak lebih dari 2 tahun per orang Rp. 1.750.0004. Surat Keterangan Keimigrasian per orang Rp. 3.000.000
moose2015
Heh rickerw they are asking 5.3+........I am in country of course & been on Kitas's for 15yrs....should have done this earlier however the prices sounds wrong!!!...lol
moose2015
Fred; we did all ourselves and I understand that this is non 'electronic'....all paperwork approved & completed but imigrasi official is asking bloody 5.3jta! I didnt ask for exit/reentry visa & dont feel i should have to pay this + it is not 2jta either...something is wrong here!? 3.1 was what my friend paid & I read where it may be a max of 3.5 but????What do you rekon???
Fred2
Visa 3.000.000MERP 1.750.000= 4.750.000++you now will be charged for the MERP even if you don't want it.
