none musilm marry an a musilm.

Becky80

Hi im English marrying my partner this year who is from java,any advice or help would be good as l know its not as easy as an English wedding.

Markit

Don't do it - is the best advise I have ever given anyone, and trust me I've given waaaaayyyy too much in the past. In case you missed that - don't do it. Thrash around as much as you can or want. Meet his family and spend a year living in his compound but do not, I repeat, do not marry him. It will be short and anything but sweet. On occasion it might work if a western man marries a Indonesian Muslim girl but the other way around... never. Sorry but thems the facts. Believe it or not I'm all for true love and happily ever after but this won't be. Ever. Trust me.

Becky80

Thank you for your advice , but l won't be taking your advice .

Smoke

[MENTION=18576]Becky80[/MENTION] Just got replies from some UK,Ozzie German and USA women who married RI men no difference for woman marrying then a man marrying . same procedures( less the alledeged circumcision which can easily be gotten around ) Many felt it was cheaper and easier to marry in Thailand or HK then deal with the religious ceremonys.Where as others just converted and married in RI once you are married there are a few helpful sites you can join. fully private for mixed marraiges in Indonesia .

Smoke

Beck I just married my muslim wife recently 2 ways to do it get a prenup b4 marriage so RI spouse can legally own land etc ( cost was 1.5 juta) get a no impedance notorized from ur consulate. basic form stating you say ur not married !( cost was about 800,000 rupiah) First way is to fly to Thailand or HK wait 3-6 days( each country has different wait period) and then wed . return with license and file marriage. problem with this is Spouses family may not approve. Second Convert to muslim ( for me it was a 5 minutes service ,repeating a few phrase) cost was a 6k stamp and 100,000 rupiah each to the 2 chosen witnesses) file application with KUA for wedding ( sooner you do sooner you get marriage book) I was able to get our marriage books done day of wedding ( need 3 months from notice) give spouse an appropiate "dowery" get married my KUA service took 20 minutes cause of my bad repeating of the phrases' get marriage books and apply for a family/spousal Kitas ps the new family will look to feed the village after your wedding pss. my muslim family the KUA and the imam know I drink and eat pork ( but not in Lombok ) actually it easy to do But Markit has a point about dont do it .. It is possible that a western female converting to muslim or marrying a RI muslim has other problems attached. I have a some western female friends that married outside of RI due to it . Not sure what or why .I will ask em tonight the reason(s)

Smoke

if you legally married outside RI you do not have to convert ( but your children will be brought up in in the locals religion) just file the marriage as soon as you can once back in RI ( i think you have a dedline for this) also you can have a legal marrage of being 2 different religions . it can be done ! harder and more expensive and more work involved [MENTION=9589]Natasha[/MENTION] thats a great point and very important about what family and community all expect once married .

davita

@ Natasha...just out of interest did you convert to Hindu and how difficult/easy was that? One of my in-law nieces converted from Christian to marry a Muslim and the ceremony, I attended, was quite strict. She has since divorced but, in Indonesia, converting back from Muslim to Christian is even more difficult....so she hasn't bothered. I would suspect that a converted Hindu would be required to undergo many ceremonial duties.

Natasha

Smoke wroteif you legally married outside RI you do not have to convert ( but your children will be brought up in in the locals religion) just file the marriage as soon as you can once back in RI ( i think you have a dedline for this) also you can have a legal marrage of being 2 different religions . it can be done ! harder and more expensive and more work involved [MENTION=9589]Natasha[/MENTION] thats a great point and very important about what family and community all expect once married .

When we applied for our marriage certificate in RI, I had to prove that I converted to Hindu. I don't think RI recognizes interfaith marriages? I believe this would also affect ability to be put on the family card/kk.

Smoke

Natasha wroteWhen we applied for our marriage certificate in RI, I had to prove that I converted to Hindu. I don't think RI recognizes interfaith marriages? I believe this would also affect ability to be put on the family card/kk.

I married in the KUA which required my conversion certificate. You can find a few religious orders in Bali and Jawa that preform mixed marriages from my research the fees are very high. I have a few friends that were married this way and are listed on the family card .

Natasha

Smoke wroteI married in the KUA which required my conversion certificate. You can find a few religious orders in Bali and Jawa that preform mixed marriages from my research the fees are very high. I have a few friends that were married this way and are listed on the family card .

So it's that a religious order here won't marry a couple of two faiths, and not that the government doesn't recognize it? I didn't know that! I always was under the impression that if I married inside or outside of RI, when we went to register the marriage in RI, we'd have to prove we were of the same faith... Would have been nice to know there were options before!! :)

Natasha

Smoke wroteBeck I just married my muslim wife recently 2 ways to do it get a prenup b4 marriage so RI spouse can legally own land etc ( cost was 1.5 juta) get a no impedance notorized from ur consulate. basic form stating you say ur not married !( cost was about 800,000 rupiah) First way is to fly to Thailand or HK wait 3-6 days( each country has different wait period) and then wed . return with license and file marriage. problem with this is Spouses family may not approve.

If she were to marry outside Indonesia and return to Indonesia, wouldn't she still need to convert to Muslim, or him convert to her religion in order for the marriage to be recognized in Indonesia? I am a female westerner married to a Balinese, I'm happy! But ya, in any mixed marriage there definitely comes extra challenges, but if you can work through those challenges, it can in fact strengthen your relationship and marriage. Just make sure you really know what your getting into, and be clear what will be expected of you once you are married.. (not only what's expected of you by your soon-to-be husband, but also the expectations from his family, community, and religious obligations), this stuff many times isn't covered before the wedding and for some, they can be in for a big surprise!! Best wishes!

Natasha

davita wrote@ Natasha...just out of interest did you convert to Hindu and how difficult/easy was that? One of my in-law nieces converted from Christian to marry a Muslim and the ceremony, I attended, was quite strict. She has since divorced but, in Indonesia, converting back from Muslim to Christian is even more difficult....so she hasn't bothered. I would suspect that a converted Hindu would be required to undergo many ceremonial duties.

Ya, I had to convert to Hindu. My husband is from Lombok, so the traditions and even ceremonies differ a little from what they do in Bali. My conversion ceremony was nothing like what they do here in Bali, all I had to do was read a text saying that I wanted to convert to Hindu at the beginning of the wedding, sign some forms and that was about it. Here in Bali I know that when someone converts usually they have to do a whole series of ceremonies and it can be quite costly. I did do the teeth filling ceremony a couple months after we got married but that was more because my husband and brothers never did it during their youth, so we did a group ceremony for that with the community. As for converting back to a religion, what I've heard from my husband for women converting back to Hindu after divorce (in Lombok), it's not so difficult, usually involves a few ceremonies and I believe probably in conjunction with re-joining the family compound and family temple.

Smoke

Hindu and Moslim are not the only religions in RI . This is where there are "loopholes" but would your husbands family accept it ? Something about raising children in RI 's religion I could have done any of the ways but wanted the wifes family "Happy" .They pray 5 times a day,live in the mosque compound and they are happy I converted. They do understand if we have children they will be moslim , but they also understand I drink Bintang and enjoy JW even with babi guling in Bali. They know when we visit I will not drink and look for pork .. That is an understanding of what the family expects from our marriage. by the way the imam handed me a Bintang to celebrate after I was married . only 1 and it was warm. But I enjoyed it in front of them anyway

Markit

This is all sweet and good but far, far away from a western woman marrying an Indonesian Muslim man. Or did I miss something? As a rule mixed marriages are much more difficult than non mixed. Duh! Due to moral/religious/family/food/fashion/sexual/toothpaste/child-rearing/schooling/going out at night with the girls/money/money/did I say money?/..... need I go on? As a rule Muslim men are far more patriarchal then western men. As a rule western women are far less able/likely to deal well with all of the above LONG TERM and guess what marriage is for fecking every - or does it just seem like that? Do not marry - thrash around all you want baby but do not marry. But what good will this do?

davita

As usual Markit..in your humorous ranting you appear to have missed the point. The OP is not only engaging in a mixed-race marriage but also a mixed-faith marriage. Both topics are therefore important to comment. I do agree with you that the OP might be jumping into the fire unless she really really understands the consequences but, as my old eyes can confirm, love is blind..:cupcake:

Smoke

Just got this from my Italian friend who lives in Denpasar with his Javenese wife if you are a foreigner you don't actually need to change religion or even have a religious ceremony in order to have a valid marriage in Indonesia. I got married at the italian embassy in Jakarta with a civil ceremony ([B][B][B]marriage celebrated by the ambassador[/B][/B][/B]), then I went to catatan sipil to have the marriage recognized in Indonesia.

davita

Natasha wroteSo it's that a religious order here won't marry a couple of two faiths, and not that the government doesn't recognize it? I didn't know that! I always was under the impression that if I married inside or outside of RI, when we went to register the marriage in RI, we'd have to prove we were of the same faith... Would have been nice to know there were options before!! :)

The 1974 marriage law brought in the concept of interfaith marriage. It was contested in a Supreme Court case.... [I]The 1974 Marriage Law repealed relevant colonial regulations only to the extent that they were inconsistent with it.[25] Previously, an 1898 regulation that expressly allowed marriage between parties of different religions had been upheld by the Indonesian courts,[26] despite Muslims generally believing that inter-religious marriages were against Islamic law.[27] Even following the passage of the 1974 Marriage Law, the courts continued to hold that the 1898 regulation applied because the new Law did not explicitly cover inter-religious marriages.[28] However, a 1989 decision of the Indonesian Supreme Court found that this regulation was no longer applicable.[29] The case involved a marriage between a Muslim woman and a Protestant man. Officials at the Office of Religious Affairs had refused to formalize the marriage because the marriage did not accord with Islamic law due to the man not being Muslim. The marriage also could not be registered at the Civil Registry Office because the woman was Muslim.[30] The Supreme Court held that “the Marriage Law did not regulate marriages between partners of different religions.”[31] In essence, the Court considered that “there was a legal vacuum, which made a clear decision on the matter of interfaith marriage impossible.”[32] The Court did find a legal basis for the marriage to be formalized, holding that because the couple had sought to register their marriage with the Civil Registry Office the woman must not have wished to marry in accordance with Islam, and had therefore essentially abandoned her religion.[33] The Court held that the couple could therefore register their marriage at the Civil Registry Office as it was a non-Muslim marriage.[34] [/I] Currently, there are 5 students of the University of Indonesia who are contesting the marriage law as being inconsistant with RI's Constitution.

Natasha

davita wroteThe 1974 marriage law brought in the concept of interfaith marriage. It was contested in a Supreme Court case.... [I]The 1974 Marriage Law repealed relevant colonial regulations only to the extent that they were inconsistent with it.[25] Previously, an 1898 regulation that expressly allowed marriage between parties of different religions had been upheld by the Indonesian courts,[26] despite Muslims generally believing that inter-religious marriages were against Islamic law.[27] Even following the passage of the 1974 Marriage Law, the courts continued to hold that the 1898 regulation applied because the new Law did not explicitly cover inter-religious marriages.[28] However, a 1989 decision of the Indonesian Supreme Court found that this regulation was no longer applicable.[29] The case involved a marriage between a Muslim woman and a Protestant man. Officials at the Office of Religious Affairs had refused to formalize the marriage because the marriage did not accord with Islamic law due to the man not being Muslim. The marriage also could not be registered at the Civil Registry Office because the woman was Muslim.[30] The Supreme Court held that “the Marriage Law did not regulate marriages between partners of different religions.”[31] In essence, the Court considered that “there was a legal vacuum, which made a clear decision on the matter of interfaith marriage impossible.”[32] The Court did find a legal basis for the marriage to be formalized, holding that because the couple had sought to register their marriage with the Civil Registry Office the woman must not have wished to marry in accordance with Islam, and had therefore essentially abandoned her religion.[33] The Court held that the couple could therefore register their marriage at the Civil Registry Office as it was a non-Muslim marriage.[34] [/I] Currently, there are 5 students of the University of Indonesia who are contesting the marriage law as being inconsistant with RI's Constitution.

So am I correct that RI doesn't recognize interfaith marriages, whether they are conducted in RI or abroad?

Smoke

no idea on 2 different faith Indonesians but my balinese toyota saleslady married her Javenese coworker last year . It was a beautiful ceremony. not sure how they did it with the catatan sipil or KUA though. Family is very very big in Indonesia and that is why I converted .The family is happy , wife is happy and I am happy

Becky80

Thanks guys for all your replies do you think l should go to an agent to help me with all the paperwork , so l know it's all correct , if so u guys know any good ones.