Maccer
Hi am Maccer from the UK,
Am looking at moving to Bali some time soon,
I must of spent hours on hours reading all the ins and outs on buying property in Bali
and i have to say in still none the wisher with all the law.
Can anyone tell me the easiest and safest way for me I to buy my own house in Bali..Pleases
ronb
Welcome Maccer. Maybe the advice that many on this forum will give is to spend time here and rent for a while before buying. In that time your ideas on which part of Bali you like, what style of house you would like, and your general feel for values will probably change.
On the specifics of contractual arrangements you will find much information in the archives of this forum.
Maccer
Thanks for the fast Reply Ronb
Well i was looking in the Jimbaran area,just a small town house 2 bed rooms.
I was living in Thailand for 2 years,but just got board with the place.
And the visa rules changing all the time.
I have been thought most of the old archives took lots of notes.
But still cant come up the easiest and safety way to own property.
Cheers
Maccer
Markit
Sorry to disagree Ron but the easiest way to buy a house here on Bali is to go to the real estate agent(s) of your choice, go where they tell you and then give them lots of money - done and dusted!
Most problems come from the ownership situation but that is relatively easy to get around and all of the estate agents will know how to help you do that.
What's tough about owning on Bali is building your own - or fun, depends upon how you are.
Nothing is safe! In the end we all die!:icon_lol:
I'm back in the UK soon if you want to have a long chat sometime then you can phone me if you want.
Regards Markit
Maccer
Thanks for the reply Markit
Been on lots of real estate agent sites,and they all say free hold,when i have read many times thats expat cant hold free hold,Then did alot more reading in to it, then all the stores come up about people having nightmares trying to buy.
Cheers
Maccer
ronb
"Freehold" just means that an Indonesian can gain freehold title. If you are thinking of using the nominee approach, then this is what you need.
spicyayam
Possibly the only "safe" way is by having a long term lease. The situation for foreigners buying prpoerty in Indonesia, is similar to that of Thailand. And from reading various stories from the web, the same kinds of problems and scams.
Markit
Um the nightmares don' come from trying to buy but from trying to keep! Joke yes, but the sense is that if you want to buy freehold here you will have to forgo some of the supposed security that we in the west are addicted too.
On the plus side I've never seen a more trustworthy folk anywhere on the planet.
But there are goodies and badies here just like anywhere.
If you do decide to take the plunge and go freehold I would advise (others will advise differently, of course) that you base your choice of Nominee on a business evaluation and NOT on being married, lovers with, friends to your choice of Nominee.
Find a local business man of long good standing in your area that is willing to help you. Check with all the locals that you can that this man (and man it must be) is respected in the town or locality. Local politician or lay priest is good but with a business grounding. Pay him well to look after you and get the right paperwork in place - go to 3 lawyers/ notaries if you must, but get it right! And above all - take your time!
Good luck - don't worry, be happy - it's supposed to be fun!
Markit
Maccer
Good day gents,
Sorry not been in touch for a long while been busy with work.
I was looking at buying a villa some time soon, but have started to think about buying some land,and then down the line building my own villa.I have found a nice size plot in Tabanan.But the estate agent say the land comes complete with all certificates and road access and is already re-zoned and ready for develoment ..Can this be true its seen to easy....I am due back on the 18th April to look other the land..Any kind of advice on what to be look out for..
Regards
Maccer
Maccer
Thanks pollyanna
Thats about the best advice i have had, i am due back on the 18th April,looks like its time to hire a bike and go meet some villagers and the neighbour.
Many thanks for the reply Pollyanna.
Regards
Maccer
pollyanna
Maccer wroteGood day gents,
Sorry not been in touch for a long while been busy with work.
I was looking at buying a villa some time soon, but have started to think about buying some land,and then down the line building my own villa.I have found a nice size plot in Tabanan.But the estate agent say the land comes complete with all certificates and road access and is already re-zoned and ready for develoment ..Can this be true its seen to easy....I am due back on the 18th April to look other the land..Any kind of advice on what to be look out for..
Regards
Maccer
This won’t seem like much but we were given some valuable advice by a Balinese friend when we first started looking for property. Take someone you trust and who speaks fluent Indonesian to visit to head of the village where you are looking. This person will not be your real estate agent. Get a feel for how they receive foreigners into the village. Get specific numbers about the fees for belonging or living in the village. Talk about any access roads. The fact that a road looks like a public road doesn’t make it one. Ask about contributions to ceremonies. Look very, very carefully at certificates. In other words, find out whether you would be welcomed into the village and treated fairly. Ensure that your bordering neighbours would be happy to have you build there. They must sign their approval for you to get your IMB. Find out how much they will charge you for their signatures. If possible talk to westerners who are already living there.
A friend of ours who made the suggestion to his nominee that they go to talk to the village leader before the purchase said they could do that later. Now that the property has been bought the village is asking $50. per week in fees and the village can make life very unpleasant for the purchaser. Some villages are far more friendly toward foreigners than others.
spicyayam
All excellent advice. Didn't even think about asking for money from our neighbor for signing the docs for their IMB! Even if you don't follow any of this advice, just don't make trouble for people! I have seen some foreigners move here and they think they know everything and go on to upset almost everyone they have come into contact. Their nominee, builder, perbekel and in turn people have tried to milk them for what they are worth. While initially I had some sympathy for them, they didn't want to listen to anyone's advice. They have since started advertising their villa for holiday rentals and of course they have none of the required licences.
jezzz12
Interesting. It all reminds me of the food chain.
balidavo
pollyanna wroteA friend of ours who made the suggestion to his nominee that they go to talk to the village leader before the purchase said they could do that later. Now that the property has been bought the village is asking $50.
That sucks , its obvious here that they are not liked - as there is an official schedual of fees to be paid yearly for resident homes/warungs/losmons/businesses/hotel/shops/etc ( eg; my area its RP250,000 per year for a house/private residence ) with voluntary amount donations (official banjar receipts are always given ) collected at major ceremony times like galungan ,nyepi , and never anymore than about RP 50,000 (up to you ) ...., and for non-hindus they can be a bit lax, or not even bother when asking for these donations ...,
Your advice about meeting the banjar first and having a talk upfront before commiting to buy is very sound advise . Even though many freedoms can be enjoyed here in Bali , the locals in "their" area still expect and appreciate the respect and well to do intentions from people , especially foregners , and a meeting up front will show these well to do intention .
If you are living here , apart from immigration dept ...., it is also a responsibility to be registered with the polisi ( differing commitments for different visa ) which then must be regestered with the either or all ; lurahan/banjar/village head /rt-wt - whatever its called in yout area.
The balinese in your local area will also ask many types of questions , to which some or even many of those questions a foregner will often feel are too intrusive , and many of those question probably would be too intrusive to ask a stranger back in the foregners country ..., but to the balinese , these questions are quite normal , and they find it suspect when someone doesnt want to ,or avoids opening up to these questions when asked .
Too often , and too many times a foregner will move into an area , build huge walls aroung their villa blocking out the world, and wanting nothing to do with anyone or anything outside of those walls ( total privacy is a concept not really understood here ) . This appears non welcoming towards locals living around your area , and often these foregners are surprised when they sometimes get the same feeling put back on them .
hanzrobby
simple if your going to live in someone else's country you abide by their laws,customs and traditions...:icon_razz:
Barekarma
hanzrobby wrotesimple if your going to live in someone else's country you abide by their laws,customs and traditions...:icon_razz:
Ah..there's the rub! If the expat does not speak the local language, or has a keen knowledge of local customs, then often they depend on the land agent or house keeper (who may not be from the local area) to give them advice. So, sometimes, it is purely due to misunderstandings that expats face local disputs. Even worse is incorrect advice. In my experience living overseas, it is not the the expats don't want to follow local customs, but they don't know what they are. Also, it is not uncommon for someone to turn-up at the door of a expat wanting money. If the expat does pay, then that appears to be the signal for every wandering 'official' to turn up to get their share, justified or not. If the expat does not pay, then they could be seen as being hostile to the local community. My own experience has been a Banjar official (complete with ID) asking for 250,000 Rp, but when asked (in Bahasa Indonesian) to produce the offical Banjar approved Order, that same fee become 50,000 Rp. I happily paid 50,000 Rp. It was a 'misunderstanding'.These types of 'misunderstandings' I know lead to expats almost to distrust any local official, which is very bad for Bali and local harmony. Having a clear, written list of what should be required, how much, and when, would be SO useful. Almost like a Mrs Beaton's Book of Bali Household Management. Is there such a thing? Anyone?
Barekarma
gilbert de jong
no there's not such a book...
all rules/traditions can vary alot between different banjars/desa's..
why just not make a weekly visit to the kantor kepala desa? bring some pisang goreng or kue, that will for sure be appreciated by them.
inho, you've hit the nail on the head "it is not the the expats don't want to follow local customs, but they don't know what they are"
balidavo
gilbert de jong wrote
why just not make a weekly visit to the kantor kepala desa? bring some pisang goreng or kue, that will for sure be appreciated by them.
good tip :eagerness: ; , even ifs its just for the initial visit ......., it shows you are genuine , and makes for a relaxing visit ..., plus it also encourages the rt or kepala desa to take time in explaning everything in detail regarding commitments and yours and their expectations and under what conditions they may apply etc
hanzrobby
maybe one of you guys should.... i love reading all the comments and googling anything i don't understand. it may be a silly way but i don't know how else to learn what some words and things mean without asking every few minutes what's that mean what are you talking about...keep it up love it
balidavo
hansrobby , rt is person responsible in your residential living area , for recording the location of home / place of abode etc .
Although in Bali this RT-title is handled within the Banjar under the kantor lurah's guidelines , the responsibility of this position still exists in the banjar ..., whereas in java and the rest of Indonesia they dont have Banjars like Bali ..., so RT is the official title for this the man , and the rt would report to the rw .
Kepala desa , is the head person in charge of the village
I think I got this explanation right
