noodles
Most expats actually living in Bali can meet me face-to-face anytime they want. [/quote]JC, Seem not to have met you before. 8)
JohnnyCool
Best wishes for the New Year, gilbert (and everybody else, of course)...very true JC, meeting someone in person gives a whole new dimension to things..recently met with a couple of members and I must say it was a positive dimension that was added for me.[/quote]Are you [b]sure[/b] you [b]didn't[/b] meet me there? :D([i]I added that because some of our posters seem to be getting hung-up about "identity" issues.[/i]) So JC maybe we should meet too...I have an idea we could go 'fishing' at mamas.[/quote]1. Mama's is a very long way from Buleleng (for you).2. I currently don't hold a "fishing" licence.3. Maybe in the next month or two.4. Do you look anything like your avatar?...you never got back to me if you got the inside scoop from Yani, remember?[/quote]I [b]do[/b] remember. I haven't followed up her original email reply to me for several reasons:1. Her original reply to me was somewhat, how should I say, "cryptic"?2. She asked me if I was an existing [i]Bali IDE[/i] customer3. What difference should that make to my original questions?4. I thought I'm on the 5th year of my Retirement KITAS. Maybe I'm wrong.When I collected what I believed was my last [i]Retirement KITAS[/i] visa, I asked the Immigration official what do I do at the end of this year (2010)? (I have been dealing with this Immigration official for many years.)Imagine my surprise when she told me I can extend it for another year! Unless I've miscounted how many years I've been here already on this particular visa, (possible but unlikely), I still don't know what's really going on. I [i]thought[/i] I would have to take steps to become either a "permanent resident" of Indonesia, or an Indonesian "citizen".Is "Indonesia" building yesterday tomorrow, or the other way around?I guess only time will tell. 8)
mimpimanis
I thought I would have to take steps to become either a "permanent resident" of Indonesia, or an Indonesian "citizen".[/quote]I would be interested to know how you get on with this as I am planning on doing the same.
gilbert de jong
Are you sure you didn't meet me there? [/quote] :lol: , aahhh you were that guy hanging in the dolphin statue :wink: . just joking JC. Personally I don't care how many ID's one has, I just like to keep it friendly (unless a poster pushes my buttons more then once 8) )1. Mama's is a very long way from Buleleng (for you).[/quote] true, but I visit the south on a regular basis, altough not for fishing..not yet that is :lol: .aah your license is temporarily suspended maybe even indefinitly, depending on how it goes in the next 2months (if I read and understand you ok).Do I look like my avatar? lol, well I don't wear a helmet all of the time, but yes my avatar is me..you can check the pics at the string "foreign landownership" by Matt.about the retirement visa (KITAS)...you can go for 2 x 5 years, dont know if the filenumbers of the first 5 years will be the same as for the second 5 years, I think so.. how else could they check if one is on their first 5 years or second 5 years...Before you can become indonesian citizen (WNI) you would have to go for a KITAP first.KITAP is the permit to live here for 5 years without extending each year (resident). when you apply for extending your kitas, you also apply to change that 'new' kitas into a kitap. after having that kitap for 5 years, you could become Indonesian.Is "Indonesia" building yesterday tomorrow, or the other way around?[/quote] well either way could work here, I just know that it aint today :lol:
JohnnyCool
I would be interested to know how you get on with this as I am planning on doing the same.[/quote]The bottom line for me, about this, is that I don't [b]really[/b] know. My understanding is that after living in Indonesia for five years on a [i]Retirement KITAS[/i], you can apply for "permanent residency" (that [i]might[/i] be called a KITAP, but don't quote me on that).I also [i]think[/i], if you've lived in Indonesia for a total of 10 cumulative years, you can do the same. Not sure about the details because they seem to be difficult to find or understand, if you do manage to find them.In theory, "visa agents" [i]could[/i] and [i]should[/i] be able to spell out the details. The only ones I've asked have only managed to confuse me even more. Your experience [i]might[/i] be different.I [i]think[/i] there can be a bunch of other factors involved, such as if you're a western female married to an Indonesian ([i]might[/i] be "easier"). A Western male married to an Indonesian for a long time also has [i]some[/i] "advantages".Personally, I have [b]no[/b] intention to take out Indonesian citizenship, ever. [i]Permanent Residency[/i] is OK, the way I see it, so far, for [b]me[/b].When and if I get more concrete information about this, I'll let you know.Meanwhile, I have until next November to think about [i]my[/i] situation. A [b]really[/b] "last" one year renewal, or what...?Wish it wasn't so ridiculously hard to get what I consider to be fundamentally simple and accurate information.[i]Best wishes for the New Year[/i] 8)
JohnnyCool
I [i]might[/i] have been [b]inside[/b] the Dolphin statue....aah your license is temporarily suspended maybe even indefinitely...[/quote]Nope, I didn't say that. I said I didn't have one....about the retirement visa (KITAS)...you can go for 2 x 5 years, dont know if the filenumbers of the first 5 years will be the same as for the second 5 years, I think so.. how else could they check if one is on their first 5 years or second 5 years...[/quote]Now you mention it, I hadn't thought about that.Many Indonesian government departments have computers these days. Many I've seen "in action" don't work properly. So, [i]some[/i] hope there.Most I've seen are still running pirated software, even in police stations. On the rare occasions I've had to go and report myself, I've jokingly offered to fix their computers. [i]"Oh, I could, for free, but I don't have a visa to do that."[/i]Everybody "laughs", me somewhat nervously (and trying to remind myself that joking with police is not always a good thing to do)."Two-faced laughter" doesn't turn me on. :D
gilbert de jong
My understanding is that after living in Indonesia for five years on a Retirement KITAS, you can apply for "permanent residency" (that might be called a KITAP, but don't quote me on that).[/quote]when applying for your [u]third[/u] (also on 4th,5th,6th etcetc) KITAS, one can apply for a KITAP, KITAP is residency for 5 years and not permanent. There is no such thing as permanent residency, also not after living 10 consecutive years in Indonesia.I know this because recently I have researched the whole procedure on KITAS-KITAP-WNI for a friend of mine :) .
Jimbo
Gilbert is correct that you can get a KITAP after 3 years but this is rare and it is normally 5 years. After this you can apply for Indonesian citizenship or you can keep renewing. Up to you.The living in Indonesia Expat forum has full detail in its visa section.
JohnnyCool
I know this because recently I have researched the whole procedure on KITAS-KITAP-WNI for a friend of mine[/quote]Researched it where, precisely?How about sharing it with us, either publicly (on this forum), or privately through PM?I prefaced my original comment with a clear "[b]I don't really know[/b]". I still don't. Anecdotal "information" is available on many websites and forums. Some of it purports to be "authentic". Few, if any, can claim to be "up-to-date".I've heard numerous stories of how [i]Bule X[/i] managed to do some kind of deal with authorities or agents. Also heard horror stories where some "deals" broke down and people were apprehended at the airport on their way out for "irregularities" in their paperwork.I've asked this before but will repeat myself by asking once again:[b]When will the Indonesian Department of Immigration spell out the details in a way that is easily accessible, understandable (unambiguous), and universal in its interpretation by all the immigration offices throughout the country (let alone their foreign equivalents)?[/b]Until that time, there will always be a continual flow of misinformation, even from well-meaning people, and endless confusion.After more than 15 years of living in Indonesia, with a wide assortment of visas under my belt, and hundreds of advices from all kinds of expats and government officials, I remain confused to this day.I was once ordered to leave the country, ([i]in absentia[/i]), but the matter was sorted out. I hadn't done anything "wrong" exactly - Immigration Office A in Town X told me that because my sponsor at the time came from Town Z, I had to go there to renew my visa. Immigration Office B in Town Z told my sponsor that in their opinion, that was bullshit. During this, my visa [b]did[/b] actually run out, technically speaking. The officials in Town Z went out of their way to re-instate me, so to speak. Everything turned out fine, in the end. I still have a copy of the order for me "to leave Indonesia immediately", which was never executed. Anybody want to buy a copy?That fiasco happened maybe eight years ago. I have since left and returned to Indonesia many times without incident.For the curious among us:Town X was JogjakartaTown Z was Bandung Where's "Town Y"?Town Y is Denpasar, BaliThat's another story in itself. Some other time. 8)
gilbert de jong
Researched it where, precisely?[/quote]The info I wrote, I got that straight from the head of kantor Imigrasi Pemaron, Singaraja. And is up to date, well a couple of weeks ago I was there.The reason why I asked about the process..you might ask? well, because my mother is currrently changing her retirement Kitas (third year extension) into a Kitap. And there was another member on the forum who doesn't hold a retirement kitas but another kind of kitas, who I offered to find out more about the procedure of the whole process to eventualy changing to WNI.I prefaced my original comment with a clear "I don't really know". I still don't. [/quote] what is it that you [u]still dont know[/u], but would like to know?How about sharing it with us, either publicly (on this forum), or privately through PM?[/quote] Didn't I already do that, a few post back? but if there's anything unclear just let me know, I will try to write it down in a another way. And the friend I promissed to help received a PM 2,3 weeks ago.friendly greetings, gilbert.
mimpimanis
Yes I did and thank you very much Gilbert :)
gilbert de jong
:lol: ...didn't wanna say who, because I didn't know if that would be ok, but know the cat is out of the bag sort of speak :D . oh and like I said before, it was no problem and my pleasure to help.
mimpimanis
Yes, it is no secret. I mentioned it - already when Johnny Cool said about converting.Your info has been the most useful I have had so far. :D
