milan
Definitely, I copied and pasted as otherwise I wouldn't have left the word "Editorial" or "Kualalumpur" on the first post. The purpose of this is to inform those foreigners who do not follow the local or Asian papers/news in general. And so I did what I did, what's the big deal? Also, it is due to the fact that the moment I leave the name of the source of where I got the info from, Bert is going to say just leave the link only. But many do not choose to go to the link (which I sometimes do) and since this info is important for those foreigners who come to this Forum to really read it and not skip the link, I [b]copied and pasted[/b]. Sooooo????? What is wrong with that?. It wasn't meant for you as I know you'd get it from local news anyhow. Why is it that it's all about you? I guess it's an issue to come after me again. Honestly, I didn't expect that. After all the more info the better and info is power, don't you think and so I'd love to share with those who just come in and out checking up this Forum. Heck, but if someone just loves to pick a fight with me like you, either you are not content with the life you have or at all cost you want me out of this Forum. I have no choice now but to second Roy for the adjective he's given you. Apparently he is right. I never wanted to go to this direction but you keep needling me so remember, you started, I didn't, so here we go. I feel sorry for you in a way as I have never had an issue with you but somehow you feel the need to ahve one with me. What is your problem???I'm busy, ok? Go and spend some time with Marty instead.At least Indonesia condemned and proved to the world thay they mean business and that is to have condemned and put the terrorists to death whereas India, according to what I heard on some Network, they never took those responsible to extreme measure of punishment. And thus the result is what has occured there since yesterday.
SG
In other words, by all accounts of government, women have played a larger role in Indonesia than they have in the US, which seems very much at odds to that quoted survey finding.[/quote]Women have led Pakistan too but that doesn't mean it's a garden of tolerance as the current events in Mumbai may well be further evidence.The Indonesian government, and the MUI, need to take substantial steps right now to knock this sort of thing on the head or we will have another bomb in Bali or elsewhere and the cycle of intolerance and violence will continue. Even if these surveys are vastly overstating the percentage of teachers who buy into and teach this stuff, its still far far too many.
SG
At least Indonesia condemned and proved to the world thay they mean business and that is to have condemned and put the terrorists to death whereas India, according to what I heard on some Network, they never took those responsible to extreme measure of punishment. And thus the result is what has occured there since yesterday.[/quote]What, on Rush Limbaugh or some FoxNews broadcast? That's some penetrating insight into 60 years of complex Indian political and religious conflict there....
mimpimanis
I said copy & paste was wonderful - what's the problem with that?Go and spend some time with Marty instead[/quote]Marty was at school when I wrote that - and right now he's having a nap, so I am fine here thank you :lol:
milan
Which goes to one of my points on the US Presidential Election that regardless who is the President, the terrorists do not take that into account. The fact that the terrorists in India specifically asked for the Americans and the Brits just adds up. (I'm Obama supporter now).What, on Rush Limbaugh or some FoxNews broadcast? That's some penetrating insight into 60 years of complex Indian political and religious conflict there....[/quote]No, it was from some guests who are terrorist analysts on (I don't remember as I switched between Fox, CNN, BBC and Al Jazeerah).
milan
Marty was at school when I wrote that - and right now he's having a nap, so I am fine here thank you [/quote]Alright, then go take care of Made. Hey, do I have to tell you what to do? Use common sense, you're big enough... :) :wink:
mimpimanis
Made is doesn't need any "taking care of" he's a grown man. Anyhow he is in Lombok right now.But telling me what to do with my son & my husband makes me go from irritated with you to pissed off with you.
milan
Vice versa! From peace that I have to the feeling of hoplessness with you. You somehow want to fight and there's nothing I can do. It reflects upon your inner conflicts and anger that is present within you. Take care of that instead. Thanks for your report on Marty and Made.
SG
Which goes to one of my points on the US Presidential Election that regardless who is the President, the terrorists do not take that into account. The fact that the terrorists in India specifically asked for the Americans and the Brits just adds up. (I'm Obama supporter now).What, on Rush Limbaugh or some FoxNews broadcast? That's some penetrating insight into 60 years of complex Indian political and religious conflict there....[/quote]No, it was from some guests who are terrorist analysts on (I don't remember as I switched between Fox, CNN, BBC and Al Jazeerah).[/quote]So if they'd executed a few people none of this would've happened? I'm thinking the only network which would come up with this sort of illogical nonsense would be Fox. Either way, I'm completely confused by what exactly your point is, Milan.
milan
SG:So if they'd executed a few people none of this would've happened? I'm thinking the only network which would come up with this sort of illogical nonsense would be Fox. Either way, I'm completely confused by what exactly your point is, Milan.[/quote]My point is that at least you see some kind of "closure" in that those terrorists in Indonesia have received the ultimate punishment. Just like the US, GB, I hope Indonesia as a result of their intelligence, security and judicial system, so far - and I hope to God that these heinous crime will not be repeated. If you keep on pointing to Fox (as you're so zoning in to that channel so vehemently) then I can't argue but even as the guest on Aljazeera (10 minutes ago) says, the problem with India is that incidents/events like this have gone unpunished/forgotten after a few months -and then it's back to business as usual makes these kinds of indiscriminating attacks on people all the more violent and succesful. Now it's 10 simultaneous places, I mean, didn't it used to be three?
SG
My point is that at least you see some kind of "closure" in that those terrorists in Indonesia have received the ultimate punishment. Just like the US, GB, I hope Indonesia as a result of their intelligence, security and judicial system, so far - and I hope to God that these heinous crime will not be repeated. If you keep on pointing to Fox (as you're so zoning in to that channel so vehemently) then I can't argue but even as the guest on Aljazeera (10 minutes ago) says, the problem with India is that incidents/events like this have gone unpunished/forgotten after a few months and then it's back to business as usual makes these kinds of indiscriminating attacks on people all the more violent and succesful. Now it's 10 simultaneous places, I mean, didn't it used to be three?[/quote]Sorry, I'm even more confused now. Maybe it's just me but a) India does have a record of executing terrorists b) it's been fairly tough on all these sorts of things traditionally with a fair amount of blood let and storming of hostage situations c) the idea that any of these sorts of people would think twice about this because of their comrades receiving what you call the ultimate punishment is just bizarre, & d) perhaps you can point me in the direction of someone who's been forgiven for such an attack..
milan
First, I said forgotten not forgiven.Second, it's so simple to understand and it doesn't take all the history as you're so inclined to do every time. Simple people understand simple things. Terrorists: punishment. Indonesia: all the world was informed and saw on global networks when they were executed and even shown their bodies carried. Third, ask those Indian columnists or some of the terrorist analysts why they say what they say. Please don't hone on me on history again.
Roy
"The Indonesian government, and the MUI, need to take substantial steps right now to knock this sort of thing on the head or we will have another bomb in Bali or elsewhere and the cycle of intolerance and violence will continue."[/quote]Patience my son, patience. :wink: 1)Indonesia has taken great steps to increase its security and to broaden its cooperation with intelligence operations with the West. Achievements in this area led to the recent downgrading of travel advisories to Indonesians by the US State Department. 2)Indonesia did indeed carry out the death penalty for the three tried and convicted terrorists of the 2002 Bali bombing...they being native born, Muslim sons of Indonesia.In my own often less than humbly expressed opinion, I think some folks ought to lay off of Indonesia once in a while, and even try to cut it some slack now and then. Or, as someone suggested on another string...leave if you can't learn to live and work within it. Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me how some few expats, while enjoying endless benefits of living here, just can't help bitching and moaning about was is in reality, a host country in which they should regard themselves as lucky to pitch their tent and call home. But even more surprising for me is the Indonesian tolerance for this bitching and moaning! But of course, that will likely never be discussed here on this forum, will it? The question is rhetorical.
SG
First, I said forgotten not forgiven.Second, it's so simple to understand and it doesn't take all the history as you're so inclined to do every time. Simple people understand simple things. Terrorists: punishment. Indonesia: all the world was informed and saw on global networks when they were executed and even shown their bodies carried. Third, ask those Indian columnists or some of the terrorist analysts why they say what they say. Please don't hone on me on history again.[/quote]Milan..perhaps if terrorists are so terrified of 'punishment' you could explain a) the suicide bomber, and b) the massive problem with terror in places like Iraq, Afghanistan and Israel all of which have draconian terror laws. I'm confused by the history part of your post..are you saying we ignore the past and simply make things up to suit. It seems so. Because having watched so called analysts much of the day I've yet to hear one come close to your argument. You've obviously missed the tension between Pakistan and India which has come close to nuclear war in the past have century..There is a fairly good summary of the enormously complex situation in the sub-continent [url=http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/index.html]here[/url]. That you think it can be solved by some high profile executions and ignoring history is just bizarre.
SG
Roy, I'll continue to offer my opinion on any country that I wish, including Indonesia. It's no argument to say that it's a host country so one should shut ones mouth. Myself I think it's my right and my obligation as human being to say what I believe. I'm also very vocal on the dark side of many other counties including your own, as indeed are very many Indonesians. One of the great strengths of America is that it's first amendment not only guarantees that right but, by implication, actively encourages it for all. And America wages war, so it says, to take that right to the places in the world where it doesn't prevail.It would be more of an insult to Indonesia not to care and say something and I think in the overall balance I'm far more positive about this country than negative but I have a right in any country that calls itself a democracy to say my bit regardless of whether I'm born there. As someone who lives in the Balinese community you too must be aware of the extreme concern about what is often seen as a slow crawl towards Sharia Law in Indonesia. It's a subject much talked about amongst Balinese I know and I've yet to be told that I have no right to comment or care.All said in the most positive way of course :)
Roy
As someone who lives in the Balinese community you too must be aware of the extreme concern about what is often seen as a slow crawl towards Sharia Law in Indonesia. It's a subject much talked about amongst Balinese I know and I've yet to be told that I have no right to comment or care.[/quote]I guess we hang in circles comprised of "different tribes of Balinese" ( :D ), as I never hear anything like this, nor have I ever heard anything even remotely aligned. Expressions of shock and bewilderment over the past two bombings, yes, no doubt about that...but a fear of an advancing Sharia law? No way. The fact is, where we live, there is also a large contingency of non Balinese Indonesians consisting of Muslims, Christians and even some Buddhists, and I've never heard it from them either. Seriously Simon, if you raised this issue of "extreme concern about what is often seen as a slow crawl towards Sharia Law in Indonesia" around Ubud, the likely result would be a blank stare. If said to the Balinese I know that this is of grave concern to the Balinese where you hang, I'd likely hear a response akin to "what are they smoking down there?" While not trying to trivialize this, I can't help it because what you wrote is just so off the top of anything kicked around here in discussions. In a nut shell, Islamaphobia is something that doesn't exist in my neck of the woods. Late tomorrow afternoon I'll be meeting with two doctors of education from Bert's neck of the woods...both are Balinese. I'll raise this topic with them, only for the reason that you've raised my curiosity. Eri and I know them very well, and they will be totally honest. Who knows...maybe I'll be shocked by their replies. Either way, I'll share them here. Cheers!
milan
Milan..perhaps if terrorists are so terrified of 'punishment' you could explain a) the suicide bomber, and b) the massive problem with terror in places like Iraq, Afghanistan and Israel all of which have draconian terror laws. "I'm confused by the history part of your post..are you saying we ignore the past and simply make things up to suit. It seems so. Because having watched so called analysts much of the day I've yet to hear one come close to your argument. You've obviously missed the tension between Pakistan and India which has come close to nuclear war in the past have century..""There is a fairly good summary of the enormously complex situation in the sub-continent here. That you think it can be solved by some high profile executions and ignoring history is just bizarre.[/quote]"I speak such simple English, why do you complicate the matters so much. I'm saying that so far US, GB and Indonesia have not had any repeated attacks since the last time it happened which in these respective country. US - not since 9/11. GB - not since 7/11 and Indonesia not since 2002 in Bali and those in Jakarta. What does this demonstrate is that the SYSTEM works! Whereas India, NO! Yet, how many bombings have that country endured since Indira Gandhi that I could remember which are not pertaining to terrorism but political as well. Why haven't they succeeded in combatting these series of violence commited by whoever their enemies are. Yes, yes, yes, we know that. Kashmir; the conflicts and wars between the Muslims and the Indians. I don't mean to ignore the past but one can just go to Wikipedia for that without having to read it here. NOPE!! It's the system! Perception is vital for simple people in that to know that Indonesia has taken their own sons to death by way of execution. That encourages people and reinforces their confidence once again to travel to Indonesia.I'm tired now. Just finished ironing 9 shirts as hubby is leaving for Algeria tomorrow (lucky you people who live in Indonesia and have maid). Soon have to go out to dinner.
bolli
..........quote>> I don't mean to ignore the past but one can just go to Wikipedia for that without having to read it here. << unquote Milan, maybe you need to try another source for information other than wikipedia. I have to go now, I need to eat breakfast and wash my armpits in my marble tub with the gold leaf faucets before I go to work. :roll: :roll:
chickchili
Well, there was those 2005 Bali bombings Milan. I don't think the system is working yet.
milan
I meant 2005, chickchilli. I saw I wrote 2002. Lapsus. Anyway, what I meant by saying the system works is that at least you saw these perpetrators were executed instead of having the case being dragged on and on without end. And Bolli, Bolli, Bolli. What would I do without the ever so poetic posts of yours. As for Wikipedia, that's not where the source of history is?... :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:
