gilbert de jong
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Hi,
very interesting reading....but little offtopic maybe :wink: ,hihihi.
friendly greetings...Gilbert.
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Dr. Tintin,
I never said Dr. Moss was a medical doctor, he's a researcher. Do some reading, the data he's collected is quite compelling.
So compelling in fact, that when I confronted one of the top cancer doctors at Dana Farber in Boston (who's name I will not reveal) with some very serious questions I'd formulated after reading nearly all of his data, she blew a gasket after about fifteen minutes and blurted out, "Well, I suppose it's all just a crap shoot then!" and left the room in a huff. Not what I'd expected from a supposed professional for sure.
I came to the meeting well prepared with some very serious questions for her and she became very flustered when she couldn't give satisfactory answers or, even minimally refute any of Moss's research. If this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is. This was far from the first cancer doctor I'd had a meeting with.
Most of these oncologists don't even believe in the treatment regimens they're prescribing for their patients and when pressed for details, they either admit dejectedly that Moss is right or, they get pissed-off like the doctor a Dana Farber. Why is that Dr. Tin?
Conventional treatment, alternative treatment, I guess it's all just a "crap shoot" so there is no wrong choice, just a bunch of salesmen and women hawking their wares to unsuspecting, often desperate rubes.
Don :(
chilli
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Bert, the link/interview is something I have heard one million times. I studied complementary medicine 4 years (Kinesiology).
Interesting how the interview ended with him saying that he knows about cases where homeopathy didn’t work.
We also know of cases where conventional medicine didn’t work either, right ?
and the patients are no longer alive to tell their story.
There was an American General Practitioner who wrote a book
“The Medical Mafia” / Guylaine Lanctot, M.D,, she was taken to court by the American Medical Association and she won.
The Chiropractic association was also taken to court, two courts in the world, U.S.A and New Zealand and they also won.
Gilbert, friendly greetings to you also, Yes, it is off topic. but how much of Bali can we keep talking, we fill in the time too sometimes No? :wink:
Roy, copy and paste this on your blog too and stick it where it best suits you once your done. :arrow:
Medan
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
[quote=Bert Vierstra]Professional references?
[quote]Super Spice Secrets: Can This Miracle Spice Stop Cancer, Alzheimer's and Arthritis?
By Dr. MercolaF or more than 5,000 years, turmeric has been an important part of Eastern cultural traditions, including traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurveda. Valued for its medicinal properties an...[/quote]
?[/quote]
Hi Bert,
Just wondering how well you know about Dr. Mercola?? I’ve been his follower for awhile. One thing that I know about him that all his research is 100% backed up by actual double-blind placebo controlled studies from reputable researchers all over the world, yes even about the spice that can cure cancer or alzheimer's. BTW did you read his article yet??? The information is not from him but from the study, he puts all data together and presents it to his readers. If you did take the time to read it, he does provide source verification.
Your choice of conventional medicine doesn't make the research he's quoting quackery.
Everyone has their own preference. We haven’t used conventionnal medical care in years, all we've done is change our diet and add some excercise, the only time we see the doctor is for a yearly physical exam which is always clear.
In the office where I work, the people are sick all the time and we used to be sick right along with them until we completely changed our diet and eliminated as many toxins as we could from our personal environment. There has to be something to it because all the changes we've made have worked out quite well for us.
Liz
chilli
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Hi Medan, I am in agreeance with this. I have spent too many years doing my own study and have too many personal experiences of my own.
Conventional medicine does its best to fix illnesses and surgical procedures with which it is respected.
Preventative medicine is about "preventing" the illness .
And it is true, too many illnesses, Alzheimers, Attention Deficit Disorder, Autism etc are to do with heavy metal toxicity. Many specialists and doctors are working in these fields here in Australia.
So i celebrate the fact that conventional medical practitioners are embracing the so called alternative ways also and why not ? The important question is DOES ALTERNATIVE/NATUROPATHY/HERBAL MEDICINE HURT YOU ?
after all isnt Ayurvedic and chinese medicine thousands of years old ?
But my point is; we do not have to convince anyone.
Everyone to their own ! :)
Bert Vierstra
Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat !
Liz, there is nothing wrong with healthy living.
I know Dr Mercola well enough after having seen this:
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm
That story is dangerous, VERY dangerous and misleading. I find it sickening.
Mercola has all the properties of a quack. "Kicking" against some form of (not perfect) establishment and offering a better and easy (made) believable alternative, where psychosomatics, common sense and tricks (of the mind) take care of getting followers. (and an income)
Can people feel better after getting homeopathy ? Yes. Can people feel better after doing some Mercola? Yes. Can people feel better after prayer? Yes Do prayers get answered? Yes.
Its still quackery, and God doesn't exist.
No harm done, unless Mercola's try to make you believe that "conventional" medicine is useless, and only meant to take your money, and / or make irrational and misleading (marketing) claims. It has cost lives.
Live healthy Liz, but think healthy too.
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Eh Don,
Guess what? I have friends at MGH who are medical doctors: they only carry out medical research and teach…they are called researchers. They are also called "Dr." There are researchers as well at the same hospital, only with Ph.D., and they are NEVER addressed as "doctors." If they insisted to be so called, they would be laught out of the hospital. :P
Putting the title "Dr." in front of a name is an old trick favored by all the charlatans who want to add authority to their opinions and the crap they pedal. Nine people out of ten will immediately assume that this "Dr." is a medical doctor, if he/she talks about health, and wont bother to verify if the title is indeed that of a medical doctor. If one is not a medical doctor, calling oneself a Dr. confuses people. But that's the idea in the mind of these types of "Dr.": they are mostly unsecured persons, with an inferiority complex, wanting desperately some attention and recognition.
Finally, your story about this Dana Farber oncologist having a tantrum sounds, to me anyway, as a tall tell. Given how difficult it is in the US to get an appointment with a doctor, even for an emergency, why would a busy doctor at this prestigious hospital waste her time (15 minutes) with you to discuss alternative treatments? You obviously did not have this discussion in the course of a personal medical appointment. If you needed medical help from an oncologist, by your own admission, you would have contacted Moss or one of his likes, not a doctor at Dana Farber. :roll:
I am sure that if any of Moss' remedies were shown to be REALLY effective, i.e. shown by the SCIENTIFIC method, some bio company would have contacted him long ago to make a deal he couldn't refuse. :lol:
Medan
Tin,
Just wanted to let you know, I was with Don with Dr. Partridge also other friend that was diagnosed with cancer.
Liz
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Dr. Tin,
It's quite easy to get appointments with oncologist's, they're no different than any other doctor, they must keep the consults flowing in order to make their clinics profitable.
So, is your "Dr." designation merely a showpiece to impress or, does it have any medical teeth to back it up so to speak? You've piqued my interest now.
There are many doctors of philosophy out there, whom I'm quite sure have earned their degrees. These doctors need not be medical doctors as long as they possess a proficient expertise in gathering and interpreting data on a given topic. It's strange a learned man such as yourself would deny plain common sense.
Dr. Partridge was her name and she became quite distressed when she couldn't refute any of Dr. Moss's research or, bolster her own assertions for convincing a person to endure the idiotically, barbaric cancer therapies her and her colleagues are pedaling. The way she talked, it was almost as if she were trying to convince herself, as much as she was trying to convince me.
The bottom line, which she so eloquently intimated eventually was that cancer treatment was all a crap shoot anyway.
Don :shock: :(
tintin
Medan,
[quote]Just wanted to let you know, I was with Don with Dr. Partridge also other friend that was diagnosed with cancer.[/quote]
Sorry, but I didn't quite understand what you meant. You were with Don when he met Dr. Partridge, and also with a friend who had been diagnosed with cancer?
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Don,
My poor deluded friend. I NEVER put a "Dr." in front of my name, for the previously mentioned reasons (you should learn to concentrate when you read). As an example, on this Forum for 3 years, it came across in the course of the discussions that I am the recipient of a Ph.D. in nuclear physics, but I never have had this little appendix preceding my name. My only active involvement with the medical profession, was long time ago (1978 -1980), when I found that a particular detector for an astrophysical experiment of mine could be applied to get finer resolutions in heart imaging. This lead to a collaborated with a team of medical doctors at MGH and Dana Farber.
You are the only one who has included the "Dr." with my name, for an obvious derogatory purpose (in your mind, that is), and if you would care to be totally correct, it should be "Dr. Tintin,"+ TIN-TIN. :evil:
Yes, you can get appointments with any medical doctor, that is if you do not mind waiting for it. So, let me get it straight: you made an appointment with an oncologist, Dr. Partridge, for the only purpose of confronting her with the Moss' theories of alternative medicine? WOW, you do have a problem, and it has nothing to do with cancer! It would have been more appropriate for you to have made an appointment with a doctor at the McLean Psychiatric Hospital, in Belmont. :cry: :lol:
If I had been in Dr. Partridge's shoes, you wouldn't have been more than one minute in my office (and I would have billed you for an "extended" office visit to teach you to waste my time).
Which brings another significant detail in your bull s**t story: you had previously written
[quote]"Well, I suppose it's all just a crap shoot then!" and (Dr. Partridge) left the room in a huff.[/quote]
I am sure that Dr. Partridge, being in her office, would have asked you to get out (more or less politely), as it was not her who was trespassing in HER office, but you.. Dr. Partridge happens to be a Harvard professor of medicine, so I am sure she knows how to handle smart-ass students like you… :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Tintin Ph.D.,
I put the Dr. as a prefix, not knowing what kind of doctor you were and because I was being a smart ass.
Moss never advocated any alternative treatments for cancer, he only provided the end results of all treatments combined, cut and dried just the facts, devoid of any opining favoring one treatment over another.
I was never a smart-ass student though, I was only making sure my best friend in the whole world made the right choice about treatment. I was quite driven to get to the heart of the matter, to shine light on the truth and I didn't particularly care whether or not I was pissing someone off or, hurting their feelings. To myself at the time and still now, I considered the situation a matter of life, the quality of that life and perhaps an all too early death.
That meeting with Dr. Partridge was a victory for truth. There were several other oncologist's whose ire I raised with my probing questions about absolute risk and actual efficacy of various treatment options. They all know god damned well the answers to my questions but the statistics on the scorecard clash thunderously with an optimistic financial outlook for their clinics, hence the anger response. Now that's a primary example of "delusional thinking" on their part.
No doubt there's quite a few frustrated, angry and guilt-ridden oncologist's who'd certainly benefit more than I would, by pouring out their hearts on the psychiatrist's couch at McLean Hospital in Belmont, about how many more patients they've killed rather than saved, with the half-ass hit and miss therapies they have on sale everyday.
Don :D :twisted: :D :twisted:
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
So now, not only did you meet with Dr. Partridge, but also, concurently, with some of her colleague oncologists . That must have cost you a fortune, if each one of them sent you, as they should have, a bill! :lol: :lol:
If I were you, I would stop this bull s**t story: don't you see that it does not make any sense that you could have gathered not one, but several oncologists the ire of whom "(you) raised with my (your)probing questions."
On the other hand, why don't you tell us all the details of your meeting, like 1) under what pretences did you convinced them all to gather in a room and here your b.s.? and 2) How did you get them to stay to listen to your tirade? :lol: :lol: :lol:
You [u]definitely[/u] need to see someone at McLean. Should you need a referal, don't hesitate. :roll:
Sumatra
Tintin Ph.D.,
1.) I never said that I gathered them all in one room. (it's not even possible to do that genius) These were individual consults that occurred over the course of 15 months.
2.)The consults are fully covered by insurance, all I remit is a co-payment.
3.)They stayed and listened because it wasn't a tirade. I remained quite calm and collected, I came to get some answers and wasn't the one who became irritated and red-faced over it all.
4.) Their anger stems from the fact that they can't satisfactorily answer pointed questions about absolute risk and efficacy of treatment, without stepping over the line and knowingly promoting a falsehood. Conscientious physicians loathe doing this sort of thing, even though they're allowed to do so, with dual blessings granted by the AMA and FDA.
It's terrible that I have to use a numbered outline to explain this to a scientist but you've spent so many years swimming around with these sharks, that you can't even smell your own blood in the water.
It's sad to be that closed-minded. :cry:
Don :roll:
Sumatra
Tintin Ph.D.,
Who's being the wiseguy now?
My wife's post shouldn't be that difficult to figure out for such a keen scientific mind as your own who supposedly has Indonesian friends but since you can't handle the mundane task of deciphering, allow me......,
We accompanied a dear friend to these consults, who had been diagnosed with cancer and needed help sorting fact from fiction in regards to treatment options.
Is this plain enough for you or, must I delve further into monosyllabic terminology and include a brief, sequential, pictorial of the events as they unfolded?
Don :twisted:
tintin
And now, here come my test proposed by Don…
First, you would have to excuse me, but at 6:12am, I was still sound asleep.
From the top of my head, I have no idea. :( My "camera" was tuned to Th201, and as far as I know, this is the radioisotope still in use. I could have called the wife of my last boss/colleague/friend: she was and still is in charge of operations at New England Nuclear (NEN provides practically all the radioisotopes in the US), but that would have been cheating… :lol:
So, the truth is that I ended up has HEAD janitor at MGH, from where I have retired recently with a hefty pension. :cry:
Sumatra
Tintin Ph.D.,
Here's one for you.
In 1980-1982 what new cardiac imaging agent improved the quality of SPECT images, over those images generated with thallium?
A PhD in nuclear physics, who collaborated with MGH and Dana Farber from 1978-1980 on refining resolutions in heart imaging, would know the answer to this question off the top of their heads.
[i]Think quickly now because if you don't give me an answer soon enough, that means you've been burning up your eyeballs online far too long looking up the answer to a question you should already know.[/i] Saturday 02/21/2009 6:12am eastern standard time.
Failing to answer this question correctly is a good indication that you were merely a janitor with lab cleaning responsibilites, who was nosy, had keen hearing and a clever mind.
Don :twisted: :twisted:
Medan
[quote=tintin]Medan,
[quote]Just wanted to let you know, I was with Don with Dr. Partridge also other friend that was diagnosed with cancer.[/quote]
Sorry, but I didn't quite understand what you meant. You were with Don when he met Dr. Partridge, and also with a friend who had been diagnosed with cancer?[/quote]
Tin,
Sorry for my quick and unfiltered English as I was driving in the car sending the email on my cell phone.
Allow me to correct it for your scientific mind. My friend and I were there in the room when Don was questioning Dr. Partridge and her assistant. And yes, my close friend was diagnosed with cancer. Is this easier to understand??
BTW, you mentioned before that you have a friend in MGH, We went to MGH as well but sorry, MGH is not one of hospitals I would recommend if you are looking for cancer treatment.
As Chilli stated on her post : Conventional medicine does its best to fix illnesses and surgical procedures with which it is respected.
Preventative medicine is about "preventing" the illness .
I must agree with Chilli on this one.
Liz
mimpimanis
[quote]Doctors and specialists CAN and DO sometimes make terrible mistakes.[/quote]
Yes, my mum was sick for a long time before the doctors in UK finally diagnosed cancer - too late, she died a week later.
froggy
MEDAN wrote: "Sorry for my quick and unfiltered English as I was driving in the car sending the email on my cell phone.", YIKES!!! Thats very hard and dangerous to do, I think cell phones should have gps, and when you are moving over 10-20 mph your texting becomes disabled.. great for teens! My Mom is getting over a masectomy and is doing well, she had a type of cancer that only 3% of the population gets,,,,The "GOOD" cancer I guess you could say? No chemo,Thank goodness. Our food here does suck, I try to eat healthy but its dam near impossible. Chems and preserves in everything, I felt so much better eating Bali food. Tin , your coming to Austin, Im in Austin at least once a week, great town, one of the best in Texas even though its very,very liberal.
