Sumatra
Sorry Tin,
Unless there was some sort of organic defect present at birth or, a horrible accident which led to your friend's heart attack, [i]everyone[/i] is responsible for keeping themselves in good shape.
The body is a temple and it's brain is the keeper thereof. Overindulgence in food, drink or, smoke is inexcusable. Survival of the fittest....remember? When someone continually abuses themselves, a price will be paid.
In regards to Obarry's new health policies and I know they camouflage it nicely in misleading lawyer language, which is always open to interpretation so, allow me to decipher...
It all has to do with picking and choosing who lives and who dies, which Obarry wants determined by a central governing agency [i]for everyone[/i] (except him and his tax cheating cronies), rather than on an individual case by case basis. Blanket risk assessment from the top down.
Sounds like good fun, doesn't it?
Don :lol:
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Don,
[quote]Unless there was some sort of organic defect present at birth or, a horrible accident which led to your friend's heart attack, everyone is responsible for keeping themselves in good shape.
The body is a temple and it's brain is the keeper thereof. Overindulgence in food, drink or, smoke is inexcusable. Survival of the fittest....remember? When someone continually abuses themselves, a price will be paid.[/quote]
What a crock of s@#t! But, come to think of it, you may be right…Forget about some DNA predisposition to a heart attack, or cancer, or whatever, it's all because of overindulgence that my friend Ngurah had an almost deadly heart attack. I have to remember to tell him that next time I see him. I know that Pak Ngurah was living it up too much, typically like all Balinese do, in his small village near Denpasar. I told him so many times that partying almost every night to the wee hours, drinking in excess, plus his bad eating habits, eating like a pig everyday the wrong kind of food: pound-size juicy steaks, fries, ice cream galore, smoking like a chimney, etc, etc. SO, he shouldn't be complaining: he should have known better, and he got what he deserved. Karma I guess, Sumatra? :roll:
Maybe you could tell me what are the causes that brought on my atrial fibrillation, and I will stop immediately overindulging in whatever I am overindulging?
Given that you think that a "horrible accident" can produce a heart attack, I rest my case. :lol: :lol: :lol: For your information what you call "organic defect present at birth," is what intelligent people call in molecular biology, DNA mutations.
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Um........well, I guess it's my turn to be confused Tin.
Did your friend vapor lock from overindulgence or what? :?
DNA mutations and survival of the fittest go hand in hand. Holy snikies! I do believe you're getting the hang of this "intelligent" concept!
I'm sorry about your atrial fibrillation. Do you ingest the typical western diet? There are too many reasons for uncontrolled AF to list. The western diet is rife with msg, hydrogenated oils, pesticides and other nasties like HFCS which probably has more mercury than swordfish steaks.
This is just a conservative list of chemicals that can short circuit your hearts rhythmic electrical conduction. Better purchase an AED for personal use, they're relatively inexpensive these days.
In Winchester you use a public water supply don't you? Your skin can absorb more chlorine in one hot shower, than drinking a glass of the same water every day for six months. Chlorine is very cardio toxic and known to disturb heart rhythm. Shall I continue or, are you getting the point yet?
As a former paramedic, I can't tell you how many times freakish accidents have led to myocardial infarction because I ended up losing count, I'd have to refer to my personal notations to quote an exact number.
Don :D
chilli
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Sumatra,
If you are not careful you will squeeze the joy out of your own heart and create a heartache yourself. Try to lighten up.
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
AH, Darwin will get him too then.
Unless we as a group have some benefit of saving him. For the sake of our own genes. :mrgreen:
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Sumatra,
1) What kind of f@@##%$g hypocrite are you? According to you, the survival of the fittest is the rule, so we should let people die when they become sick. And yet, you made a living trying to save people's lives. :!: :?:
2) From your above comments, I guess you never take a shower or a bath, which I guess must be even worse.
3) Not to brag, but I know pretty much about afib, so much so that when I was attending a seminar at MGH (Massachusetts General Hospital) recently, Dr. Singh and Dr. Boucher jokingly agree that I should get a honorary doctor's degree in electrophysiology. :)
Abnormalities or damages to the heart's structure are the most common cause of atrial fibrillation. Possible causes of atrial fibrillation include:
High blood pressure
Heart attacks
Abnormal heart valves
Congenital heart defects
An overactive thyroid or other metabolic imbalance
Exposure to stimulants such as medications, caffeine or tobacco, or to alcohol
Sick sinus syndrome — improper functioning of the heart's natural pacemaker
Emphysema or other lung diseases
Previous heart surgery
Viral infections
Stress due to pneumonia, surgery or other illnesses
Sleep apnea
So, don't tell me about the "too many reasons for uncontrolled AF" (AF is [u]uncontrolled[/u] by definition). However, I would like to know where you get your info that MSG, hydrogenated oils, pesticides and "other nasties like HFCS" cause AF. I would really appreciate some professional references, which I will also forward to my doctor, Dr. Andreas Natale, who happens to be one of the top four electrophysiologists in the world, with Drs. Haïssaguerre and Jaïs (Bordeaux), and Dr. Papone (Milan). I am sure he would appreciate your inputs, and having seen his past errors, maybe he will accept to be your assistant. Just think of all the money you could make…I will meet with Natale on May 19, in Austin, TX, so this gives you some time to gather your journal references.
Finally, to show how little you know about the subject, in the case of AF attack, one does not use an AED: this is a sure way to get a stroke. An AED is only recommended in the case of a deadly VF (ventricular fibrillation) episode, when there is no other solution to save the patient.
lumumba
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
I can’t wait to find out how it will end :roll:
[quote]I am sure he would appreciate your inputs, and having seen his past errors, maybe he will accept to be your assistant. Just think of all the money you could make…I will meet with Natale on May 19, in Austin, TX, so this gives you some time to gather your journal references.[/quote]
I like it :P :lol: :P
L.
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Professional references?
[quote]Super Spice Secrets: Can This Miracle Spice Stop Cancer, Alzheimer's and Arthritis?
By Dr. MercolaF or more than 5,000 years, turmeric has been an important part of Eastern cultural traditions, including traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurveda. Valued for its medicinal properties an...[/quote]
?
chilli
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
[quote=Sumatra]
What's wrong with the preventive maintenance model applied to human physiology?
Don :twisted: :D :twisted: :D[/quote]
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH IT and so much right with it, however, there is no need to shove it down peoples throats. No one likes being dictated to and to suggest to someone that they created their own illness is cruel.
btw ever read the "biology of beleif" or "molecules of emotion" ?
Sumatra
Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat !
Geez Tin,
There's no need to get so angry, I'm going to feel real guilty if you start having chest pains.
The person using an AED has no idea what caused the victim to vapor lock, whether it's AF or VF is irrelevent and I say it's easier to treat a stroke than death.
You're so hooked on allopathic medicine, you can't think outside of the box. However, you do admit that ingestion of certain chemicals will cause or exacerbate AF including;
allopathic medications, caffeine, nicotine and alchohol. What makes you think copious ingestion of MSG, hydrogenated oils, pesticides or, HFCS are any different? (Look up the professional references online they're too numerous to list here, you could start with
http://www.mercola.com and work your way up.) What about the polutants that are spewed into the atmosphere daily, overactive thyroid, metabolic imbalance, lung disease, cancer (of all kinds)....etc. Hospitals are full of people doctors and researchers made sick in the first place.
We've had a tremedous increase in these conditions over the past twenty years, you as a researcher, should be able to see with only a cursory observation "cause and effect" relationships but for whatever reason you're not.
Being a medic is a thankless job and I haven't been one for many years. I do bathe daily in filtered well water, not the chemical laden vomitous you call "water" in Winchester.
Don :) :twisted: :) :twisted:
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Well Bert,
The guy is a doctor are you? Don't just take one article at face value and belittle it, do more reading and view it as a whole. Just because the pharmacuetical industry can't isolate a single component from a natural compound and patent that component as a medicine for the sake of profit, doesn't make it quackery, as it seems you're attempting to imply with your remark.
Allopathic medicine certainly has it's place like for instance, if one is born with a bicuspid aortic valve no amount of diet or, lifestyle changes will make it a tricuspid valve and at some point in time, it may have to be replaced.
Likewise with traumatic injuries, I've seen ER docs perform some outright miracles but the everyday maintenance of one's body is up to the individual. You just can't subject yourself to a lifetime of chemical abuse and expect allopathic medicine to clean up the mess with yet more chemicals added to the mix. That kind of rationalizing doesn't even make sense.
Doesn't it make more sense to head the bad guys off at the pass, than to chase them all the way through the mountains and down to the sea, just to find out they have a boat waiting for them?
What's wrong with the preventive maintenance model applied to human physiology?
Mercola.com is just a starting point, until the "newest deal" starts to apply censorship filtering technology, the internet will continue to be a treasure trove of information and disinformation, it's our responsibility to separate the rice from the chaff.
Don :twisted: :D :twisted: :D
tintin
Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat !
Angry? Not at all, besides it's bad for AF. My posting was just to show you up as a guy who makes it up as he goes along, and that your "knowledge" on any topic is rather limited and definitely dogmatic. So, let me correct some of your statements regarding AF, for the benefit of the other readers of this string who may be interested.
- AF does not produce chest pains (which could imply a possible coronary thrombosis).
- An AED is nice to have around in the case of VF, given that only a minute or so of ventricular fibrillation and you are history. On the other hand, AF does not kill and is never an emergency: one can remain several days in AF without problem. In the case of VF, one collapses almost instantly, whereas with AF, one just feels (most of the time) the irregularity of the heart beats, with some nausea.
What makes you think copious ingestion of MSG, hydrogenated oils, pesticides or, HFCS are any different?
Simple (though it may not be for you,). Intensive testing has been done on all the possible causes of AF, including dietetics, and no relation has been found. However, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol can, in some individuals, exacerbate, but NOT cause AF.
In my particular case, I did take some medicine to control my AF, until their efficiencies wore off. In the mean time, the ablation technique was developed and improved (Dr. Hassinguerre pioneered it in 1998), and I underwent a PV ablation few years ago.
I did check briefly the website you suggested,
http://www.mercola.com. Thank you very much, but I keep clear of the tooth fairy, witch doctors, and homeopathy (Bert just gave us a sample of the website). :lol:
Now, if you don't mind my asking,
When you travel, I assume you don't bathe, since outside of your house, I have never heard of any filtered well water available for this hygienic activity. And since
Your skin can absorb more chlorine in one hot shower, than drinking a glass of the same water every day for six months
do you take that chance or do you return home promptly? :lol:
And more important, how do you breathe? Obviously the polluted air is not worthy of your holly lung. Do you walk around with scuba tanks? :lol:
I must say, with you, one is never disappointed... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bert Vierstra
Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat !
Well Bert,
The guy is a doctor are you? Don't just take one article at face value and belittle it, do more reading and view it as a whole.
Doctors can be fricking nutcases. Are you? View it as a whole, don't make me laugh.
As soon as someone puts Doctor in front of his or her name, I should shut up or something?
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
Quack, Quack,
Quack.
Believing may have a function in survival of the fittest my friend. But it doesn't make things true.
http://www.google.com/search?q=mercola+quack
Allopathic, oh boy. A term used by quacks....
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Tin man,
I never said AF causes chest pains but it can cause unconsciousness and in this case a rescuer wouldn't have any idea whether it was AF or VF.
Hmmm.....medicines that wear off, that's interesting. PV ablation is an excellent therapy, I'm glad it worked for you, it didn't work for my uncle and grandfather.
The rest of your post is too riduculous to answer.
Bert & Company,
I suppose you're right, people are going to shove whatever swills and pills down their throats that they want to. It's been proven conclusively that in the case of breast cancer, radiation, chemotherapy and surgery only prolong one's life by a meager 18 months(Dr. Ralph Moss, researcher). In most cases, it's a woefully painful prolongation of life. Why do people still do it, instead of dying with dignity? Because their doctor's keep telling them it's the best thing they can do, take the medicine. What's the real reason? To insure the good doctor's can continue to have a financially comfortable existence. Go ahead and do whatever you want, it's human nature.
Don :twisted: :twisted:
Bert Vierstra
Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat !
Because their doctor's keep telling them it's the best thing they can do, take the medicine. What's the real reason? To insure the good doctor's can continue to have a financially comfortable existence.
Yes, the "Allopaths" are out for your money. Better take some turmeric. Its a complot.
http://richarddawkins.net/article,3456,Richard-Dawkins-interviews-Prof-Michael-Baum,Richard-Dawkins-Michael-Baum-RichardDawkinsnet
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
I, also, am a doctor, and I never missed reminding the girls when I asked them to undress on our first dates... :lol:
AF [u][b]NEVER[/u][/b] causes unconsciousness so I don't see why a rescuer would confuse VF and AF (well, maybe YOU were confused, which probably explain why you quit being a paramedic in the first place)
Performed by top electrophysiologists who have lots of practice (practice makes perfect), PV ablation is successful 85% of the time on the first trial, and following a subsequent touch-up, 95%. So, maybe your uncle and your grand father could give it another trial. There was a reason why PM Berlusconi came all the way from Italy to see Natale at the Cleveland Clinic for this procedure. Why didn't he go to Dr. Papone, in Milan? Like I told Natale, it's probably because being in trouble with the Law and so close (like any self-respecting Italian politician) to the Mafia, maybe he was affraid of an "accident."
Yes, anti-arrhythmic medicines do wear-off through the body adapting to them, including through the heart's "remodelling" due to the on-and-off AF, even with the medicines.
Finally, I disagree with your statement that
[quote]The rest of your (my) post is too riduculous to answer.[/quote]
I am sure we all could profit from how you handle your healthy bathing away from home, and certainly how you manage to breathe in the Boston polluted air. :lol:
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Sumatra,
[quote]It's been proven conclusively that in the case of breast cancer, radiation, chemotherapy and surgery only prolong one's life by a meager 18 months(Dr. Ralph Moss, researcher)[/quote]
WRONG AGAIN!!!
My aunt had breath cancer some sixty years ago, when she was 45 years old. She had a mastectomy w/o radiation or chemo. She died of old age, in her sleep, 37 years later.
My sister had breath cancer also. She had a mastectomy + a short chemo (I don't think she had radiation, but now it's also automatically prescribed). She was in remission and live a care-free life until 14 years later, when the cancer came back. She then started chemo again, and survived some 3 years.
So, if I were you, I would ask your Dr. Ralph Moss's medical certifications. :lol: :lol:
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
I felt ashamed of myself for not remembering more about my sister's illness. So, I checked my files and found out that she did even better than I first thought.
1983. In a check-up, a lump, which upon analysis turned out to be cancerous, was removed from her right breast. At that time, she had a radiation treatment, and she was OK until 1998.
1998. Fifteen years later, in her yearly check-up, another growth in the same breast was found. The doctor told her not to worry and not to change her plans to come to Bali to visit me with her husband. Upon her return to France, she had a mastectomy + some chemo.
2002. A check – up showed she should start chemo again.
December 25, 2005. She passed away.
So, my sister lived a full, happy life for twenty two years after she got first diagnosed with breast cancer, and she had a happy life until 2005.
And like I said, your doctor is full of prunes (and you also for spreading alarmist, false informations). :evil: :evil:
Sumatra
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Dr. Tintin,
AF [i]can[/i] cause fainting and near fainting incidents. (look it up) Breast irradiation does cause heart/lung damage (50% of the time), piercing the breast in a biopsy, surgery for removal of tumors or, crushing breast born tumors with a mammogram all spread the cancer.
The cancer therapies available today are a crap shoot at best but mostly they're damned false hope pedaled by greedy oncologist's who are backed up the criminal AMA and FDA.
Dr. Ralph Moss is the premier expert on the efficacy of various treatments used in cancer therapy, I suggest you actually read his research before screaming balderdash and poo poo.
Both of the relatives I mentioned are dead now but I doubt they could've afforded the level of care you received from doctor's Natale and Papone.
Your sister was quite fortunate. My grandmother and several aunts haven't been so fortunate, I was witness as one aunt and another uncle literally wasted away to skin and bones before death, as my mother cared for them. They were probably on the wrong side of a financial line drawn in the sand, I suppose you do get what you pay for.
What kind of doctor were you pray tell?
Don :)
tintin
[b]Re: Barack Obama, an Ex Bali Expat ![/b]
Sumatra writes,
[quote]AF can cause fainting and near fainting incidents. (look it up) Breast irradiation does cause heart/lung damage (50% of the time), piercing the breast in a biopsy, surgery for removal of tumors or, crushing breast born tumors with a mammogram all spread the cancer.[/quote]
I don't have to look it up. I have studied this branch of medicine since 1996 – that's more than twelve years. AF does not cause fainting, unless one has serious heart failure to start with.
In your dreams. A biopsy, removal of tumors or mammograms do not spread cancer. Please quote medical sources to uphold your statement.
[quote]The cancer therapies available today are a crap shoot at best but mostly they're damned false hope pedaled by greedy oncologist's who are backed up the criminal AMA and FDA.[/quote]
Yes, they are a crap shoot. But the criminal AMA and FDA have nothing to do with it. I would venture that most of the encologists, and doctors in general, are honestly trying to do the best for their clients. We'll really get somewhere when we start treating a disease at the molecular level (we're getting there).
[quote]Dr. Ralph Moss is the premier expert on the efficacy of various treatments used in cancer therapy,[/quote]
That's funny, since Dr. Ralph Moss is not even a medical doctor.
In any case, I am sure that the words you put in his mouth, namely that " …in the case of breast cancer, radiation, chemotherapy and surgery only prolong one's life by [u]a meager 18 months[/u]," is a lie, your lie designed to fit your negative outlook and personality. What do you say about the two personal examples I gave you? I would say they are statistically very significant.
[quote]Both of the relatives I mentioned are dead now but I doubt they could've afforded the level of care you received from doctor's Natale and Papone.[/quote]
Again, you are wrong. Dr. Natale charges what the insurance company will reimburse him for this given procedure. You obviously ALSO don't know how insurance companies work. The only difference with other doctors is that I had been schedule with Natale ONE year in advance (but in reality, I only waited 3 months for an opening), whereas I could have gone to MGH and only waited 3 – 4 weeks, and the cost would have been the same.
[quote]Your sister was quite fortunate. My grandmother and several aunts haven't been so fortunate, I was witness as one aunt and another uncle literally wasted away to skin and bones before death, as my mother cared for them. They were probably on the wrong side of a financial line drawn in the sand, I suppose you do get what you pay for.[/quote]
Well, most of the time, dying is not a pleasant sight (it surely was not in my sister's case, after she developed pleurisy). My sister lived in Paris, and in France, like in any civilized nation, medical care is free, and France's medical care happens to be top in the world, certainly way above the US medical care, where you don't get what you pay for (It's about twice as expensive as any place in Western Europe).
