tintin
The following is a letter to the editor of the Winchester Star, the weekly newspaper of my town, in this week's edition. The author's name is obviously edited out.[b]A 'reckless and cynical pick' for VP of the U.S.A[/b]Fri Sep 12, 2008, 04:08 PM EDTMcCain's choice of Governor Sarah Palin as his vice president is utterly reckless and cynical, a claim that was echoed by two prominent conservatives in St. Paul when they were speaking candidly.Palin is no substitute for Hillary Clinton and she is certainly no Joe Biden - both of whom are fluent and experienced on a wide range of domestic and foreign policy issues.McCain passed over far more qualified men and women at his convention in an attempt to shore-up his floundering campaign. And it has done so but at what cost and what risk to our country? Selecting the vice president should not be a contest of personality ... the stakes are too high.Can you imagine if Obama had made such a pick? Just having Tim Kaine on the short list drew scoffs from Karl Rove who claimed he lacked the credentials for the post.We have much to learn about the woman that McCain has plucked from obscurity and the media is right to fully vet Governor Palin. The McCain campaign obviously did not. They have refused to discuss the vetting process and have not allowed Palin to take questions from the press. If she is not ready for a press avail, how can she possibly be ready to be a candidate for this office? This is not Wasilla Alaska!To be fair, Palin is gutsy, a good speaker, charismatic, telegenic and she will be a quick study as the McCain campaign rushes to school her in domestic and foreign policy.So much for the importance of experience - McCain's first campaign theme.For someone who has been out of the country one time, with a passport obtained last year, she has much to learn about the world. And McCain's assertion that her foreign policy credentials include living in a state that is near Russia and next to Canada is mind-numbingly stupid.Palin has virtually no national experience, and her stand on the issues is far from mainstream or in line with most women I know.She wants to teach creationism in schools, outlaw abortion in cases of rape and incest, and believes that Iraq is "God's task."And since when did putting the word "executive" in front of experience add exponential value?The more that surfaces about her background, policies, record and family affairs, the worse it gets. It's impossible to make the case that she is ready to be our second in command but the GOP is straining to do so. John McCain is 72 years old, with four bouts of melanoma in his medical history. I am terrified of the prospect of a Palin presidency ... we all should be.For all the talk of "country first," McCain made a purely political decision to infuse some energy in his lack-luster campaign. I realize the GOP has been demoralized over the last four years and the base was lukewarm to McCain from the start. But he had far better choices for this most important position.Country did NOT come first with this pick ... not by a long shot. McCain's own ambitions came first, a charge he had levied at Obama. What does this tell us about McCain's judgment and decision-making not to mention hypocrisy?Before Governor Palin took center stage, the McCain campaign scoffed at "celebrity" pols, Hillary's allegations of sexism, and had a love affair with the press who have been more than kind to McCain.And can you imagine if Michele Obama had belonged to a succession group as Todd Palin did until 2002? The videos and hate America speech from the meetings of the AIP (Alaska Independence Party) would be all over cable news. With the Palin pick, McCain caved to the social conservative wing of his party, so much for being his own man.And what we didn't hear from St. Paul was telling by nature of its very omission. The convention was "fun" for the red meat crowd with all of it's vitriol and lies about Obama, no surprise as McCain has employed all the dirty tricksters from the Bush Cheney campaign, but where was the beef?We did not hear anything about GOP plans for social security, healthcare, job creation, the economy, foreclosures, and global warming. I heard no big ideas, no policy proposals beyond tax cuts and tax credits, the GOP is a two-trick pony when it comes to the economy.Well ... there was their one BIG idea "drill baby drill."And the party platform is the most radical and hard right it has ever been. As McCain's campaign manager stated, "this campaign is not about the issues." Clearly McCain cannot compete on the issues so he wants to keep voters focused on the narrative. How's that looking out for America?McCain and Palin are more of the same policies of Bush and Cheney. We need a REAL change not a campaign slogan adopted because the other ones weren't working. And to all those of us who work in the community on behalf of children, students, animal welfare, the poor, the homeless, the unemployed, the elderly, the sick, the disabled and with countless other causes, we are offended by the swipes levied by Palin and others at the GOP convention.What McCain and Palin don't realize is that "real change" comes from people who organize and work in their community. John McCain doesn't get it and Sarah Palin is more of the same.[/quote]
Bert Vierstra
Dear People,If you find an interesting article on another webpage, plz don't copy it in total.Just quote a part of it, and provide a link to the original...thanks
Jim Thorpe
Roy,It isn't that I don't agree with you regarding the Georgia policy, it is that you didn't know that it was the same policy as Obama's. You speak of the founding fathers, the constitution, etc. but this hyper partisanship is over the top. This is why nothing important gets done anymore. You need the other side to support the big ideas; national healthcare, tax reform, lobbyist influence. But who trusts or wants to work with someone that just said you want to kill babies, that you are Nazis, etc. You have dirtied the pool we all have to bathe in... SG, I saw that poll and thought it was interesting. I have never disagreed that other countries dislike George Bush.Tintin, what makes the writer any more important than you or I?Democrats are agreeing that Obama's chances are being hurt by this disinformation:[url="http://www.nypost.com/seven/09122008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/abcs_bungles_128726.htm"]http://www.nypost.com/seven/09122008/po ... 128726.htm[/url]Centralist papers are saying that she is not the rabid dog the far left is describing her:[url="http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-11-palin-cover_N.htm"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/e ... over_N.htm[/url]If I was a strong McCain supporter I wouldn't say anything but I continue to tell you that the american public is sick of this attack on what is a probably a decent lady...Is she perfect, no but neither is Biden, Obama or McCain. The numbers are continuing to show the backlash.[url="http://www.gallup.com/poll/110263/Battle-Congress-Suddenly-Looks-Competitive.aspx"]http://www.gallup.com/poll/110263/Battl ... itive.aspx[/url]Roy, you continue to say that Bush has a low approval margin and I continue to respond that the democratic congress is even lower! Take a look that the Gallup poll again, 20% approval, this is the worst congress ever. The spillover of the mass attack on Palin is now endangering the democrats hold on congress. Obama continues to shoot himself in the foot with the newest commercial saying that McCain can't use a computer or send e-mails...But they didn't say the reason why is because of the severe beating he received as a POW he can't physically use a keyboard or even tie his shoes. Didn't they think these things out? Mistake after mistake.SG- I can and have shown that others, democrats and republican, are saying some good things about Palin,too. But the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is showing that what I am saying is correct...many here feel that the attacks are unfair and it is changing their opinion of Obama. Here is part of an interview with Mark Penn, a major democratic strategist, saying what I have been saying... [url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/11/politics/politicalplayers/main4442492.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4442492"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/ ... ME_4442492[/url]"I think here the media is on very dangerous ground. I think that when you see them going through every single expense report that Governor Palin ever filed, if they don't do that for all four of the candidates, they're on very dangerous ground. I think the media so far has been the biggest loser in this race. And they continue to have growing credibility problems. And I think that that's a real problem growing out of this election. The media now, all of the media - not just Fox News, that was perceived as highly partisan - but all of the media is now being viewed as partisan in one way or another. And that is an unfortunate development. CBSNews.com: So you think the media is being uniquely tough on Palin now? Mark Penn: Well, I think that the media is doing the kinds of stories on Palin that they're not doing on the other candidates. And that's going to subject them to people concluding that they're giving her a tougher time. Now, the media defense would be, "Yeah, we looked at these other candidates who have been in public life at an earlier time." What happened here very clearly is that the controversy over Palin led to 37 million Americans tuning into a vice-presidential speech, something that is unprecedented, because they wanted to see for themselves. This is an election in which the voters are going to decide for themselves. The media has lost credibility with them. "This guy certainly isn't a conservative complaining about bias...But again, don't listen to the guy who continues to get the elections correct and who has been correctly calling what is happening here almost on a daily basis.. Who has been literally surrounded by the candidates for almost 3 years. I am saying it again, Obama's supporters are going to lose the race for him unless something big changes the course of the election. The rabid, hyper-partisanship is driving the moderates into McCain's camp. Continue to compare moderates and conservatives as ignorant pigs, Hitlers, mass murderers. Continue to play right into the bigots hands when they say that the foreigners never liked us in the first place and then you prove it by writing the things you do on this forum about the U.S. But for a big bunch of the U.S., the people actually have friends that vote for the other party...they see that their sister isn't a baby killer for voting for McCain....they see that their dad isn't supporting a return to slavery because he won't vote for Obama...and all that trash the far left liberals are throwing at them will seem to them as lies.
Jim Thorpe
SG- I haven't seen anything from a non partisan source that says she wasn't vetted properly, Do you have a link?Thanks!Here is an interesting blog by a current democrat...[url="http://concerneddemocratsformccain.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-not-vetted.html"]http://concerneddemocratsformccain.blog ... etted.html[/url]
SG
SG- I haven't seen anything from a non partisan source that says she wasn't vetted properly, Do you have a link?Thanks![/quote]I don't have the time today but later I'll dig back. There was WaPo, NYT, CNN and a bunch more. CNN carried a list of crucial folks that hadn't been talked toThat link only makes sense if you assume the stuff was hard to find, otherwise it backs the pretty widely accepted failure to vet. Half the stuff they came up with took 3 minutes with google.
SG
But the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is showing that what I am saying is correct...many here feel that the attacks are unfair and it is changing their opinion of Obama.[/quote]Ha, if the rash of media reports in the last 24 hours are anything to go by, and the slowly changing poll results back to blue or statistically even, quite the opposite is true. Palin is slowly becoming the Dem's best weapon to take out McCain. She's utterly hopeless and should never have been thrust anywhere near the VP slot.Attacks? Please show me a personal attack on McCain like the Sex Ed one which says "Endorsed by Barrack Obama"?Jim, how you can continue to support a man who despises you so much to do this for personal or political gain. Or a party that allows 4000+ of it's own sons and daughters to die to line a few corporate pockets. Corruption and evil at the highest level.
SG
But who trusts or wants to work with someone that just said you want to kill babies, that you are Nazis, etc.You have dirtied the pool we all have to bathe in... [/quote]How many dead Iraqi babies are acceptable [b]not[/b] to dirty the pool? Or don't they count?Sorry Jim, but these are core issues and Roy is right. It's about morality or lack thereof.
Jim Thorpe
Here is the Washington Post link that seems to have started a bunch of the others....it may be widely accepted in your group but it isn't in others...In fact the washington post article just says that she was vetted late, not that she wasn't vetted. The second page of the article shows a pretty good vetting process..[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/09/02/ST2008090203591.html?sid=ST2008090203591&s_pos=list"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... s_pos=list[/url]She has been in the mix for quite a while so I would be surprised that she wouldn't be vetted. My understanding is that Limbaugh (not a fan, don't listen to him) has mentioned her for a couple of months.Especially since she is a governor with an 80% approval rating... I am surprised by this because all it does is make Obama even look less vetted by a sceptical public, again going with the media is mistrusted theme.
Jim Thorpe
Since when have I said I support McCain?
Jim Thorpe
Despises me? John McCain? You mean McCain sits in his house and wrings his hands (after cleaning the blood of the babies he just put in the blender) saying " Oh how I despise that Jim Thorpe of Iowa."I don't think so. How do you know that he despises me? Or anyone else? I can make a good case for Obama despising people me. An even better case for some members of this forum despising me, but that doesn't make it true. Demonizing your opponent is a bad for everyone. Let me say this:I believe that you truly believe in your stances.I don't think you are a bad person for having those stances.Joe Biden is not a bad person. Hilary Clinton is not a bad person. And you know what? Republicans, in general, aren't bad people either. Neither are democrats. Almost all of us believe that we are improving the world but trying to do it in different ways.I know that we link to a bunch of articles that no one actually reads but here is a great site, with a great article...If you don't like the article you may like the site... [url="http://edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html"]http://edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html[/url]
Jim Thorpe
But who trusts or wants to work with someone that just said you want to kill babies, that you are Nazis, etc.You have dirtied the pool we all have to bathe in... [/quote]How many dead Iraqi babies are acceptable [b]not[/b] to dirty the pool? Or don't they count?Sorry Jim, but these are core issues and Roy is right. It's about morality or lack thereof.[/quote]Yes, this is the core issue...so did George Bush say " Today I want to kill Iraqi babies"? Or did he say that "Saddam must be taken out and the heck with collateral damage"? Or did he say " Saddam has killed a million of his countrymen, has not responded to 17 U.N. resolutions, has attempted to kill my father, invaded his neighboring country ,threatened his other neighbors and while I regret doing so, I believe this is the best course of action" ?While maybe not exactly, I think the 3rd one is closer than the 1st one.When Clinton bombed Kosovo, did he do so because he hated them? No, he did it because he thought that was the best thing to do. When he lied under oath was he saying that he was above the law? That he was spitting on the basis of our entire legal system? No he was trying to hide the fact that he was getting a blowjob.Both the politicians may be less than what I want in a president and they are both careerist politicians and tainted but I don't think either of them are evil or that they despise me.
Roy
Obama continues to shoot himself in the foot with the newest commercial saying that McCain can't use a computer or send e-mails...But they didn't say the reason why is because of the severe beating he received as a POW he can't physically use a keyboard or even tie his shoes.[/quote]Well, that's a relief! That means he can't operate the "football" so he could never launch the nukes! :P Well, the legislative committee back in Alaska has now issued a subpoena to Palin's husband in regards to the investigation ongoing there as to whether or not she unlawfully fired the commissioner of public safety for not firing the state police officer married to her sister and involved in a contentious divorce.That committee promises its findings to be released by mid October at the latest. I guess then we'll find out for sure just how good or bad a job McCain's people did in vetting Palin.
Jim Thorpe
Roy, Wow...You may not like McCain but to make fun of his injuries from his POW days is a bit much... :roll: SG, I don't think I said that Obama attacked McCain in the ads...I said, or meant to say, how unprepared is his campaign? A google search of 5 seconds will give you a bunch of articles about why he can't use the computer. I am not upset with the ad, I am amazed that they didn't think of the why McCain doesn't use the computer! This is like attacking someone for not sending flowers for mother's day only to find out that his mother was killed years earlier saving another child. His campaign is just being ran so poorly at times.
Roy
It would seem to me Jim that any reasonable and intelligent person like yourself, who is truly undecided, wouldn't care a bit about what is included, not included, accurate, or inaccurate about either candidate's campaign ads. What would seem reasonable to me is that an undecided voter would be waiting for the debates to see what each candidate has to say about the issues most important to them.So, you can say you're undecided as much as you want, but it's clear you are not undecided. But that's OK...I still love you! :lol: In fact, I'm wearing my Iowa tee shirt as I write, AND drinking coffee out of my red Iowa coffee mug! Alas, that great bourbon is long gone! :cry:
Thorsten
Jim,no I didn't call you a dumbass, I don't think you are one, you are only a hardcore Republican, but you are entitled to do so.When Bush's fraud in Florida brought him into the White House, I got really surprised, first I thought he had no chance versus Al Gore, and then I got surprised that the American people simply accepted this trick down there, no protests - nothing.Well I won't get surprised anymore, in reality - the majority of American citizen are ignorant to political facts at home and even more in respect to the rest of the world, when SG describes that McCain would despise American voters, then this is understandable, because the nomination of Sarah Palin as VP is proving this right, for me it is an offending toward the intelligence of American people and that's why I came out with this casting show thingy.The message is clear - we are like you, so vote for us, but hell, when every hockey mom can get into the White House, with no qualification at all or any kind of competence, then the down fall of the USA is already sealed.Go to France Jim and tell the people, sorry guys, but your pensions have gone and the next day you will see burning cars in the streets, when in Germany one big bank after the other would collapse at least the minister of economy must resign and more heads will be rolling, you don't have any kind of political culture in your country and that's the main problem.Every four years there is a huge show, alone the pre-elections Clinton vs. Obama left more the impression of basketball playoffs than from serious political work, but maybe this is owed to American mentality, they rather like to see it as a sporting event and the media is exactly reflecting this.The whole campaign is not about the issues, it is only the battle man vs. man, a lousy theatre with no substance at all, how to explain a voter that the candidate, who was attacked by big parts of his own party for months, is now going to be the super president?The media is serving this exhibitionism and hypocrisy, every single word is dissected, twisted, analysed, interpreted or misinterpreted, every single comment is used to stitch another meaningless article together, they are so focused on details, that the forget the whole.The American voter is overwhelmed with so much useless information, no wonder many get confused and resigned.8 years Bush have been a catastrophe for the USA and for the rest of the world, even this is simply ignored by a huge part of American voters and this is always amazing me!Amazing that the presidency of Bill Clinton is today mainly associated with Monica's blowjob, or the shameful impeachment theatre - he was a great president for the United States and also a great president for the partners overseas.You are seriously comparing Bill Clinton's role due to the war in former Yugoslavia, with Bush's Iraq war Jim?One thing these wars do have in common, they're both illegal under people's right, but here ends the compare.Clinton's intervention in the Bosnia and Kosovo war was a brave and necessary step and he had the support of all European countries, his great diplomacy reached to keep Russia neutral and this was absolutely the maximum anybody could expect in this case.With this corrupt and criminal wimp Boutros Boutros-Ghali on top of the UNO there was never a chance for a UN resolution to legitimate this war, so this was handled by the NATO with the connivance of Russia.Madeleine Albright did a tremendous job in this conflict, this was a mile stone in US foreign policy after WW II.Change, change, change,who will change seriously American policy, an old, sick man against his own degenerated party with the hockey mom on his side?Here anywhere in Europe, after 8 years of such a miserable policy, the other party could nominate a chair and it would be elected, but when the Democratic Party really would have the intention to change US policy, then they should have gone together for this goal united, this battle between Clinton and Obama caused a lot political damage to the credibility of this party in my point of view and you can see this also in the results of the polls.Best regardsThorsten
BaliLife
And that indicates how little McCain cares about America and those middle Americans you talk of Jim. Not only not care, he despises you. You are just there for fodder for the corporations that pay his bills and the military industries that the GOP is so closely aligned with. He despises you so much he will add a woman to the ticket who is thoroughly and dangerously unprepared and inappropriate for the job, just because of the vote catching wow factor.And Obama did none of that, his VP choice was thought out and responsible and that's a massive and overwhelming difference. Throw in those sleeze ads, which have sunk as low as you can get (and all sorts of of media have pulled them on it) which say 'endorsed by John McCain' and you have a candidate who will do anything to get in and I would guess would be despised by the John McCain of a decade ago, before he sold his soul, as much as the current John McCain shows disdain for middle America.[/quote]exactly SG - hit the nail on the head..many here feel that the attacks are unfair and it is changing their opinion of Obama. Here is part of an interview with Mark Penn, a major democratic strategist, saying what I have been saying... [/quote]of course jim - that's the repub's brilliance - put a woman up as a running mate with a pretty face, a toxic tongue and sh*t for brains - let her slam obama and biden and know that any retaliation will be seen as unfair.. (by retarted soap-opera viewers..)ct
BaliLife
by retarded soap-opera viewers..[/quote]clarification.."by semi-retarded full-time soap-opera viewers.."ct
milan
There we go again with insults. Can't we disagree without using inappropriate words? It must be a sign of frustration and repression in one's real life to have to tongue-lashing by using swear words, etc., on the Forum. This is a debate and a discussion. Not a Jerry Springer show.
Sumatra
[/quote]Perhaps a number will do so but they have been told stories by both parties so long that they no longer believe anything the politicians say...I also wonder how many voters will vote against McCain/Palin because they disagree with their policies not knowing that Obama has the same policies.[/quote]Excellent point Jim,AND IT SEEMS TO BE THE POINT THAT KEEPS ESCAPING EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM.Exhausted old rhetoric, slightly different tactics, similar policies = [b]SAME OUTCOME[/b]. If you take the time to trim the fat off of both steaks, they just become two rotten pieces of meat cut from the same diseased flank.I shouldn't write posts on American politics when I'm hungry, it kills my appetite. :cry:Roy,If enough people could be persuaded to vote third party it wouldn't be wasted votes. Unfortunately, our state-controlled media is beating the drum of personality, instead of common sense. Ron Paul's campaign hasn't even been elevated to a side-show attraction yet and probably won't be, he's a viable alternative candidate that's been completely ignored due to extreme media bias.Dig deep everyone. Do a little research on who "owns" the media in the US and then you'll have a much deeper understanding about why the rest of the world loathes us with such passion.Don :(
Jim Thorpe
Roy,I did enter this with a chance at voting for Obama but I have been moving considerably away from him in the last 2 weeks. Having had McCain as a Senator when I lived in Phoenix, I have never been a fan. I was hoping for more.Thorsten,Not to fight old battles but most of the democrats I know don't believe that Bush stole the election. That idea has been pretty much shown not to be true.Actually, I don't consider myself as much of a republican as a libertarian...Small government, religious freedom, equal rights. There are many things on both agendas I support, there are many I don't. Lately I believe that the democratic party has been giving us the poorest choices. My first vote for president was for Barry Commoner.I also agree that perhaps there should be changes in the way our candidates campaign. I was contacted by my first candidate almost three years ago, that makes a long season. I also have had the chance to meet many of the candidates in very small settings so you can ask them important questions.Balilife - You continue to put down anyone that supports Palin but obviously the spin you put on her is not the spin that she is selling. No brainless people can make it to governor with an 80% approval rating. So how many people not democratic are dumb? It seems that over time it has been about anyone. Perot, Reagan, Bushes, Dole, etc...all have been portrayed as idiots, cowboys, dangerous, or all of the above. People aren't going for it anymore. Even if it was true this time there has been too many cries of wolf. Sarah Palin isn't any dumber than the normal politician and just saying it doesn't make it so. Don't underestimate her intelligence. SG- you may feel that Obama's choice was well thought out but many don't. Do I really need to link to all the democratic sites that have panned his pick? In some democratic circles there has been a call for him to step down. This possibility is availble on the prediction markets... [url="http://www.intrade.com//?request_operation=main&request_type=action&checkHomePage=true#"]http://www.intrade.com//?request_operat ... Page=true#[/url] It is too early to tell but I don't think anyone on this forum thought that Palin would drive McCain's numbers up so high. But if he wins, it will be considered a stroke of genius.A couple of years ago I read a story about the differences in psychological preparation of the fighting men in WW2. The american side presented the Germans as smart and hard to kill, to respect them as trained killers. The Germans talked of German superiority, that americans were soft and easy to kill. When the battles became intense, the americans were prepared mentally for the challenge...the Germans much less so..."How could these soft americans be matching us or even beating us?" The author's opinion was that it was better to accurately portray your opponent. I think you are doing yourself a disservice if you underestimate Palin.Roy, glad you still use the Iowa stuff! I will have to see how I can get you some more Iowa Whiskey!