BaliLife
so roy, what are your views on the idea of a casino in bali?
ct
chilli
[quote=Roy][quote]Roy, What would the high priestess think of a casino in Bali ?[/quote]
I’ll tell you exactly would they would think...all of them...and without a blink. They would neither think, or say anything at all.
Why?
Gambling, be it via cock fights or various board games have been part and parcel of Balinese life since anyone was able to record it. This reality has always been interwoven in Balinese ceremonies, especially temple, or odalan ceremonies.[/quote]
chilli
[quote=Roy]
For me, and in heart, I would only accept a casino on Bali (ghost palace, or Nusa Penida) under two circumstances.
The second circumstance would be [u]that Balinese are excluded from gambling[/u]. I say that because I have seen for myself the destructive forces that came into play by gambling in years past, and then only from cock fighting.
.[/quote]
Roy
In my mind, the jury is still out on this issue, and it will likely be deliberated for years to come.
While I don’t believe the casino appeal is essential for the future of tourism here, the increased dollars that would flow in have great potential to increase the health, education, and welfare of the Balinese. Of course that all assumes that a large part of the taxes from the revenues gained by such an operation can be retained in Bali...not unlike the reality of the VOA funds which ALL flow to Jakarta.
Another aspect that hounds me is the undeniable reality of Bali, as she lives in today’s world, and how she can best assure her continued future of maintaining her cultural and artistic traditions without falling as a victim. How this is accomplished in the future is not something I know, but there is no doubt in my mind that what is currently called development in Bali will yield little, or anything down the road, and that is because too much of that development is centered on individuals, and not the community at large.
Later this morning, the Balinese go to the polls and vote for a new governor. Each of the three candidates are outstanding men, and each have awesome skills, experience, and wisdom to bring to this position.
For me, and in heart, I would only accept a casino on Bali (ghost palace, or Nusa Penida) under two circumstances. That would be by a referendum majority vote of the Balinese, and within that referendum vote, an understanding and agreement of the percentage of taxes that would be maintained and used by the Balinese. The second circumstance would be that Balinese are excluded from gambling. I say that because I have seen for myself the destructive forces that came into play by gambling in years past, and then only from cock fighting.
Anyway, I raised this issue to hear what others thought about it. Truly, I think this is a matter of when, and not if.
chilli
I too have seen the destructive forces gambling has created (outside of Bali).
a wise person would say no to the idea of a casino.
what is that saying, "absolute power corrupts absolutely" !
Thorsten
They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum
And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them
No, no, no, don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parkin' lot
:roll: :( :cry:
milan
Thorsten writes:
[quote]They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum
And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them
No, no, no, don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parkin' lot
[/quote]
By Joni Mitchell.
Roy
Of course given that Made Pastika is the new Governor of Bali, this discussion is entirely moot.
BaliLife
Duplicate post removed - sorry
BaliLife
Why, is he against casinos and the like Roy?
Roy
When he was chief of police in Bali, he all but eliminated gambling (cock fighting in particular) because of the social problems it was creating. While cock fighting is still allowed at bona fide temple ceremonies, it is generally under the supervision of local police and the amounts that can be bet are supposedly limited.
The story goes that as a young boy, was orphaned as a result of his father’s high gambling debts. Years ago our neighbor hung himself over his debts accumulated from gambling. Made Pastika is most definitely not a supporter of gambling.
While I try to stay out of local politics, IMHO Made Pastika will make an excellent governor. He also has an excellent international reputation, and during his term of office I won’t be surprised to see some significant changes made to improve the conditions of the average Balinese. One thing is almost certain, that being that the days of shady real estate development will soon be over. Those folks who are involved should start packing their bags.
chilli
This is good news.
BaliLife
[quote]One thing is almost certain, that being that the days of shady real estate development will soon be over. Those folks who are involved should start packing their bags.[/quote]
one would hope - clearing out the garbage will be best for all parties, except the garbage themselves of course..
froggy
I run a "beer shack" casino, and can tell you first hand that I have the locals come in, most can afford it , some cant, thats in any location all over the world, my system only uses cards that keep track of all players incoming and outgoing cashflow......nothing wrong with locals playing , but a manager or owner needs to know when to say no to a customer,,, I have actualy had a lady dump her change out of her purse onto my counter, she was asked not to come back,........she was identified as a true addict and I am not in the buisness of taking rent or electric money from people,,,, a large csino will not care who waste money,,, so I disagree witha mega casino, and opt for private smaller establishments, lets face it , there are a few rich bored people in Bali, and the "entertainment" can do alot of good other than sit and earn interest in a Hong Kong bank account or the like..... my 2 cents,,, so , who wants to go in with the me on a small 50 machine location? i use computers, and they will pass law there, its complicated but it does...
BaliLife
Sorry froggy, I'm out on that idea.. I hate poker machines - that's the only thing I hate about vegas - that seems to be where moms and dads go to lose their kid's futures.. The prob with low end casual places is they attract the kind of people who can't afford to gamble at all or who develop habbits that pretty much ensure they'll never be able to afford to feed their families again..
High class establishments can keep out a large group of the desperates with dress codes, atmosphere conditioning, higher table limits, etc. I disagree also about the mega casinos not being able to do as much as the smaller casinos. Let's face it - none of them probably care too much about addicts and its very hard to help someone not wanting to be helped - but I honestly think you see more deadbeat gamblers (per head) in the bar type joints you describe than in the mega casinos..
Ct
Ipanema
[quote=froggy]I run a "beer shack" casino, and can tell you first hand that I have the locals come in, most can afford it , some cant, thats in any location all over the world, my system only uses cards that keep track of all players incoming and outgoing cashflow......nothing wrong with locals playing , but a manager or owner needs to know when to say no to a customer,,, I have actualy had a lady dump her change out of her purse onto my counter, she was asked not to come back,........she was identified as a true addict and I am not in the buisness of taking rent or electric money from people,,,, a large csino will not care who waste money,,, so I disagree witha mega casino, and opt for private smaller establishments, lets face it , there are a few rich bored people in Bali, and the "entertainment" can do alot of good other than sit and earn interest in a Hong Kong bank account or the like..... my 2 cents,,, so , who wants to go in with the me on a small 50 machine location? i use computers, and they will pass law there, its complicated but it does...[/quote]
Can you explain what a 'beer shack' casino is please. Never heard of it.
BaliLife
I think it might be a delicate way of saying 'a dive'. They're all over the US - pubs that resemble sport bars, where would-be gamblers go to die, penny by penny.. You see them with handfulls of tickets, looking as miserable as a newly castrated dog.. It represents the end of a miserable life - a place where most patrons can lay claim to being both chronic alcoholics and chronic gamblers, except they've already lost the car, now they're just finishing off the $12 left in their kid's piggy bank..
RSL clubs in NSW with pokies are bad enough, but they're like Disneyland compared to the holes in the US..
I'm back at Penninsula for Fish n' Chips.. And surprise, surprise - it was Warung Italia for lunch today - they're extending their place to have a woodfired pizza bar in the next few weeks, awoo hoo!!
Ct
froggy
So Made Pastika hates gambling, great! So I have a chance? really it depends on if indonesia has a set of sweepstakes laws ,,, here we have Gambling laws, lottery laws, bingo laws,sweepstakes laws etc... If indonesia has a set aside sweepstakes law, my system conforms 100% ..... Guess I need to get in touch with a indonesian attorney ( hey this sounds familiar?) and get him to forward my operation system rules and regulations to Made Pastika.... Btw, Department of Transportation here wouldnt let me bring in Bali scooters,,, red tape ,red tape OMG red tape :shock: ...
BaliLife
Hi Roy,
Very interesting. I also think think the economic benefits are inarguable - if handled correctly.
On another note, I only picked up on the particular ceremony you were referring to in Ubud last night on my flight back. Garuda had a big section of their inflight magazine explaining what was happenning and who he was - it was a very good read. Did you ever meet him?
Ct
FreoGirl
I hate Pockie machines as well, I would hate to see them in Bali. I also am opposed to a Casino development in Bali, whatever the model.
What Bali has going for it, is that it is unique to the experience to be had elsewhere in the world.
There are way too many developments all over the world, where the tourist may as well be in one as the other, they are so alike. (I fear the development proposed in Lombok will be yet another like that).
Bali does not need a casino to attract tourists. A casino just makes Bali the same as other offerings. Bali needs to continue to trade on it's uniqueness, emphasis the culture and environment. Bali already has a wonderful 'brand'. Say 'Bali' in so many parts of the world and it conjures up a feel of the exotic. That is what should be pursued.
