A Casino in Bali?

Roy

This was idea was recently volleyed back and forth a little on another string, and it’s been a topic of discussion and consideration around here for some time...with Nusa Penida most often cited as the likely location. In recent years we have seen the impact of the huge expansion of gambling casinos in Macau, and soon, the first of two casinos will be opening in Singapore. Given the amazingly successful results in Macau, and the staggering revenues that can be expected, is this a potentially good idea, or equally potentially disastrous idea for Bali?

SG

I heard much discussion over this but wasn't the central government absolutely against such a thing for a variety of reasons not least of which is the inevitable change it would bring to Bali and the law & order / corruption issues in a nation where such is a major issue anyway. I for one would hate to see a casio here in Bali..ever

goldminer

Apart from the corruption issue, how are the majority of the population of islamic indonesians going to take to a casino. Gambling is forbidden by islamic law.

Roy

[quote]Gambling is forbidden by islamic law.[/quote] So, maybe that could be the perfect excuse for selecting Bali as the excusable home...for a casino. Then again, another "religiously correct" way of getting around that concern, the Monaco principle, could be enforced...meaning no local citizens allowed to gamble...only tourists.

BaliLife

A fantastic opportunity for Bali and Indonesia if managed correctly. I will post a more thorough entry later today on why I suggest such, but am currently in a restaurant and my wife will stab me with a fork if I don't put this thing down. Ct

Roy

Enjoy your dessert BaliLife, but before you go on too much about “managed correctly”, which I will assume means sans corruption, the gold letter C for corruption are the navel rings worn in the under bellies of both Las Vegas and Macau.

SG

[quote=Roy]the gold letter C for corruption are the navel rings worn in the under bellies of both Las Vegas and Macau.[/quote] Indeed, as one who has sat in Bugsy's chair in Vegas, let us not forget the origins of that adult Disneyland.

BaliLife

Ok, what I mean by "managed properly" is about ensuring that it leads to ongoing investment, sustainable government revenue and that it isn't done completely half arsed as are so many things in indonesia.. (Look at the new waterfront development at Dreamland - rolling garage doors lining the walkway - its an embarrassment to the nation). What Bali really lacks is big money. I'm talking about the type of money that gets attracted to Vegas, Maccau and Singapore. Sure, a few indonesians have built and own hotels there, but they're few and far between - in reality there's not a lot of BIG MONEY in, or being drawn into Bali. Multi billion dollar investments act like blood in an economy, it stimulates economic activity and the government should use the tax revenue generated to develop infrastructure, schooling and health, etc. Do I think the government of indonesia or bali are capable of pulling this off? No, from what I've seen, the government of indonesia has never implemented a strategy, plan or proposal that's anything more than pre-mixed gravy on a defrosted schnitzel. Why's this? Well perhaps the old saying, you throw peanuts, you get monkeys. All of the most talented indonesians are working in private institutions - they're not working on the bettering of indonesia - their chartered to represent the interests of shareholders. It is the elected officials of this country that are chartered to represent the interests of indonesians, and quite frankly - I'd suggest they're not up to it. They'd end up converting some half ass fallen down hotel into a makeshift casino which would only attract a few gamblers from jakarta, bandung and surabaya.. Now, look at the process singapore used in assessing the casino plans, furthering them and ensuring singapore benefits as a whole. Like I've said in the past, the Singapore government are master planners - Indonesia's government couldn't plan how to wet a sock in a swimming pool. So, you want it done right? Start asking Singapore, "what should we do?".. I would like to see a world class casino in Bali. I would not like to see a less than world class casino in Bali. Ct

milan

Switzerland is "managed properly". And what about Genting Highlands in Malaysia. That too is "managed properly", except the state of the place is inenviable, but organised, nonetheless. I doubt likewise, Bali could deliver. Jakarta had it - (at Jakarta Theatre, Ancol,etc., that almost any place you went, jackpots machine were installed and even massage parlours a' la' Thai were mushrooming all over the Centre of Jakarta city). And all was managed very smoothly and swingingly as the then Governor was a Western-minded individual until his post was abruptly taken away. That alone shows that Indonesia could cater to this megaprofit businesses as long as it is run within the country's capital city still and not in the secondary cities just as yet. Menado would be another strategic place for this if allowed. Just my two-cent of opinion.

Roy

[quote]Now, look at the process singapore used in assessing the casino plans, furthering them and ensuring singapore benefits as a whole. Like I've said in the past, the Singapore government are master planners - Indonesia's government couldn't plan how to wet a sock in a swimming pool.[/quote] Are suggesting that there is NO corruption in Singapore relating to these casinos? :lol: :lol: Normally I might say, "surely you jest." But then, that would allow you a come back, "my name is not Shirley!" :lol: Are you sure? :P

chilli

Roy, What would the high priestess think of a casino in Bali ? What does the matriachal system think of it ?

chilli

Given the amazingly successful results in Macau, and the staggering revenues that can be expected, is this a potentially good idea, or equally potentially disastrous idea for Bali?[/quote] I think disastrous idea for Bali.

BaliLife

No I'm not suggesting such Roy - but I'm confident no individual in the Singaporean government received a personal kickback for a particular decision. Whatever was agreed to, the justifications for agreeing to such are available to the public, I'm sure. Also, I point out that the companies that won the bids are world leaders in gaming - attracting that investment to such a small country is a major achievement and it will benefit Singapore immensely. I just hope as I said, if it's done in Bali, that it be done in a world class manner. I'm opposed to the random installation of poker machines. Actually one city that has failed in it's bid to build a world class casino is Vancouver. They've essentially created an environment where some crappy pubs get some poker machines installed and all of a sudden they're screaming "Casino, Casino!". That's not a casino, that's a place for drunks to gamble. I'd like to see a casino in Bali being integrated into a 5-star hotel and being made into a resort. Ct

Roy

[quote]No I'm not suggesting such Roy - but I'm confident no individual in the Singaporean government received a personal kickback for a particular decision.[/quote] AND it's [b]ME[/b] wearing rose colored glasses????!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock: :shock: Now I have to wonder, which also means ask...how often are you in Singapore? And, who the heck do you talk to when you are there? :wink: There is an old line amongst marketing professionals, like me, and it goes like this...“if you can’t dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your BS.” You’re taking the baffle to new heights here, and when all is said and done in Singapore, look out! :P In truth though BaliLife, I like you. In a way, you kind of remind me of when I was much younger . But please, don’t take that as condescending...much as it sounds, as I’m serious. By serious I do mean that I like you, and that you really remind of myself many years ago. Yah, I know, it still sounds condescending, and possibly horrific, but right now, I can’t put it in better words that might make you understand that I’m not being condescending. If you can take it on faith (oops wrong word there), or just trust, it would be a lot of fun for me to buy you a drink someday and just talk.

BaliLife

:wink: no i don't take it as condescending roy and yes i agree, sometimes people who are on opposite sides of the fence, can share a lot in common.. despite the arguments we've had, and the arguments i'm sure we'll continue to have, i too look forward to one day having a laugh over a drink.. i'm in singapore at least a week or so every month, sometimes more if needed - i have a business there and am on an EP.. ct

Roy

[quote]Roy, What would the high priestess think of a casino in Bali ?[/quote] I’ll tell you exactly would they would think...all of them...and without a blink. They would neither think, or say anything at all. Why? Gambling, be it via cock fights or various board games have been part and parcel of Balinese life since anyone was able to record it. This reality has always been interwoven in Balinese ceremonies, especially temple, or odalan ceremonies.

Roy

BaliLife, I gave up being really pissed off a long time ago. It just isn't worth the wear and tear, and besides, it can add wrinkles to one's face! :D Great then. Consider drinks on me as an invite, and of course, the misses is invited as well.

BaliLife

:) done..

Ipanema

Well I have the place for the Casino. It is know as the Ghost Palace between Pacung and Bedugal. I have been through that place several times and just cannot believe that it has been abandoned. The last time I was there I came across a pile of papers that someone had tried to burn but was not totally successful and I found a set of plans and time sheets. That place just takes my breath away. Some links http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8qtJ2aPqWI (About 4 mins into the video) http://www.thebalitraveller.com/gallery ... image_id=5

SG

I watched a Casino go into Auckland...allegedly one of the world's least corrupt cites...best not to comment on that right here, beyond saying that the perception is largely accurate but planning was [i]manoeuvred[/i] for the casino, if you will, even there. It's caused quite some issues amongst those who can least afford it..amongst mothers who leave their kids in their cars for a day, amongst folks who are dealing with loan sharks outside the door. The odd suicide...that sort of thing. That said, I've had a couple of great nights there...and some very large corporations have made a shit load of cash out of it.