Theo
Found this on another forum.
Four ways you can possibly get around the law against mixed-religion marriages. Some time ago Law Professor Wahyono Darmabrata of Universitas Indonesia (UI), Depok, suggested four ways those of mixed faiths could marry, they being:
# by court order
# marrying according to each partner's religion
# submitting to your partner's religion for marriage purposes, but without converting
# marrying overseas
The court order method is rare and was last done by one Andi Vonny Gani in 1989, however the revised law on Citizen Administration would make it more possible.
The second option, having two ceremonies, one according to the man's religion and the other according to the woman's, depends on a certain interpretation of a clause in the 1974 Marriage Act, however the problem of which marriage is then to be recognised by the state has Professor Wahyono stumped.
The third option is the most common, and was famously done by celebrity couple Deddy Corbuzier and Kalina in 2005. Deddy, who is Catholic, married Kalina, a Muslim, according to her faith, but did not convert to Islam. Their marriage was conducted by a celebrant from Yayasan Paramadina, which is led by Nurcholish Madjid.
In the case of Islam this method requires finding a Muslim marriage celebrant who is willing to officiate. Orthodox interpretations of Islam forbid the practice of a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man. (In the reverse case observers note that the Quran seems to permit a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman, who maintains her faith thereafter, as was done by one of Muhammad bin Abdullah's wives, Mary the Copt.)
Those wishing to follow this method, in the case where the bride-to-be is Muslim and the groom is not, had best seek a celebrant from liberal Muslim organisations such as the Wahid Institute, the Indonesian Conference on Religion and Peace (ICRP), as well as Paramadina. Having the marriage recognised by the state afterwards is a separate issue.
Former minister of religion, Quraish Shihab, is of the opinion that the matter should be of no concern to the state, but rather be left up to each religion.
Sudhar Indopa, of the Jakarta branch of the Civil Registry office, says the state is not unwilling to accommodate such mixed marriages, but defers to authorities on religion on whether the practice is acceptable.
If religious authorities do not bless the marriage then the state cannot recognise it.
Farida Prihatini of the Islamic Law department at UI however says that the Clerics' Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), has made mixed-religion marriages haram, or forbidden, and in principle other religions, besides Islam, do not allow them either.
It's unacceptable, there is no [valid] marriage, it's living in sin.
Father Andang Binawan says the Catholic church has no problem with mixed-religion marriages, provided the non-Catholic partner is willing to submit to the church's marriage laws, and commits to monogamy and life-long partnership, but need not convert to Catholicism, regardless of whether the non-Catholic partner is male or female.
The final option, probably the simplest for those with enough money, is running off to Singapore or Australia, and is popular with celebrities, such as the Muslim Yuni Shara, who married the Protestant Henry Siahaan in Perth. Indonesian civil registry offices are bound by law to accept foreign marriage certificates as valid, however Farida Prihatini views this as unacceptable.
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Taken from Indonesia Matters
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At least there are possibilities and someone from the government reassures the devide between religion and a secular government. Furthermore there will always be those 'extreme views' in life.
sander
I got married in Indonesia about a year ago. I am catholic and my wife was muslim. She converted to catholic, however it wasn't that simple.
We went to St. Francis Xavier church in Kuta and she had to go there once a week for about 6 or 8 weeks total for study (learning all the prayers etc.) and after that had to be baptized.
However all went very well and everybody was very helpful.
tintin
Hi Sander,
Did she also have to do her first communion and then, probably the next day, confirmation?
Marcel
Beste Theo,
Maakt niet uit wat je doet maar maak een contract!!!!
ALTIJD DOEN!!!
Dan is het huwelijk in balans.
In iedergeval veel geluk toegewenst
grtz
sander
Daniel,
She did not have to do her first communion. Baptism was enough.
Regards,
Sander
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: RE: Marriage protestant/ catholic[/b]
Hee, we speak English here...
But a marriage contract is advised, also if you want to buy property later on your wifes name
[quote=Marcel]Beste Theo,
Maakt niet uit wat je doet maar maak een contract!!!!
ALTIJD DOEN!!!
Dan is het huwelijk in balans.
In iedergeval veel geluk toegewenst
grtz[/quote]
Theo
I assume you mean a contract for 'gemeenschap van goederen'..
What does it mean exactly, if we married without contract, i can not buy property etc?
Bert Vierstra
I mean "huwelijkse voorwaarden", and that is also how its called in Indonesian.. :)
If you you don't have "ownership separated" by contract, everything that is bought in marriage, is owned by both. But this creates a problem for land that is bought by your wife, since you have Dutch Nationality and cannot own property in Bali directly.
Theo
Ok, so then automatically it's not mine but hers, even when I bought it?
sander
Right however, I believe its possible to make a contract at the notary about who owns what percentage of land/house property after your marriage as well but I am not 100 percent sure about it.
I had a (dutch) friend in bali who owned a house for 40 percent, his wife 40 percent and his brother 20 percent. After they devorced the house was sold and everybody got his share.
Bert Vierstra
Right.
You can not "buy" it. You can only pay for it.
But, you can supply her with a loan for it, in some form.
Ok, its not romantic, but....
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: RE: Marriage protestant/ catholic[/b]
[quote=sander]
I had a (dutch) friend in bali who owned a house for 40 percent, his wife 40 percent and his brother 20 percent. After they divorced the house was sold and everybody got his share.[/quote]
This cannot have been an official legal agreement.
Foreigners cannot directly own property, but something like Hak Pakai, can be solution if you want something on your own name.
[u][brl:28k8ixf3]http://www.bali-information.com/bali-news.php/story/17/hak-pakai[/brl:28k8ixf3][/u]
sander
[quote]This cannot have been an official legal agreement.
Foreigners cannot directly own property, but something like Hak Pakai, can be solution if you want something on your own name. [/quote]
It probably was, I have no idea.
SunFlower
[b]Re: RE: Marriage protestant/ catholic[/b]
[quote=Bert]Right.
You can not "buy" it. You can only pay for it.
But, you can supply her with a loan for it, in some form.
Ok, its not romantic, but....[/quote]
Theo with prenuptial agreement whatever property in your wife's name will remain hers, even though it's not really hers if you manage to make agreement with her in notary when you buy the land, using nomanee system that stated the land is in her name but you are the one that pay for it, with special loan form (as Bert wrote), the amount of loan usually the price of land + building price which you are going to build. Basically the land in her name but you 'own' it as you are the one that pay for it. In pre nup you can also arrage percentage of how much each other get if the marriage have to end in divorce. It is not romantic but it is good to protect both of you.. for more information about this subject i suggest you go to notary...
Congratulation for you and your love one........ :P
Dyah
yes Sunflower - marriage contract is not romantic... and for indonesian people and family is like like to say them "i don´t trust you". I know a couple that canceled their marriage, than the family is contra pre nup contract.
I´m for pre nup ... and iám sure ...it´s good for both of you.
-Dyah
PS.
To buy property in Indonesia is marriage contract usefull... or your wife must have status "single" :lol:
Marcel
Sorry bert your right ingris sekarang,
Theo
Keep remember my words,always first this contract!!!!
Don´t go for a different status of you new wife KTP.
Only the contract is the way.
And never ever let you family inlaws arrange any of this.
Do it your self ,get thet info also by your self.
Even if the wedding is maybe sooner then you have al your information
Don´t forget this
The best of luck with the wedding.
Ps if you want you could call me if you in Indonesia.
Marcel
Theo I´m not try to atack your wife or family,
But the culture is so diiferent then in holland.
This is so needed for you so your life is in balance with you and your family.
Its a power balance wich will be not in balance if you don´t have a good contract.
grtz
Marcel
Bert Vierstra
Also keep in mind, although its not very likely she ever will (after all its Indonesia), that if a woman inherits property, and you don't have a contract, she cannot own her own heritage, legally.
But, in Bali the boys get all anyway, most of the time...
Markit
After reading all of this thread I would go for the "girl friend" option.
Sounds way too complicated for a simple human couple to fight their ways through.
Don't we make our own lives difficult though?
JAMIE
Im not sure of how the diosese works in Perth , but here in the US ( and most elsewhere) non catholics cant be married in the catholic church . I have been to services in the US where a "rent a priest" is used , they follow the Catholic laws but not in the church , a hall or something like that . That being said we do something here in the US the is not condoned by the vatican , we allow girls to be altar boys ( altar servers is what they now called ) and Rome says the US is breaking Catholic tradition ? so maybe things are differant in other parts of the world . :?:
