froggy
Theo, are you following your principles, or those that are taught to you? The farther you stand away from one denomination and thier views, the more you see... Every church tells you "THEY ARE THE TRUTH" , yes we are right and every other religion is wrong,, Figure it out yourself and what you are confortable with.... .... Tin, thats a massive amount of payout, a subsciption to playboy would cost alot less, and hurt alot less arse'....
BaliLife
i personally loved the molestation statement tin!!
ct
tintin
Jamie,
So, you are Catholic. I am sure you are a fine person. And in my above posts, I did not imply that Catholic = bad person. I was just talking about the church hierarchy, which has been corrupt for more than thousand years, starting with the crusades, not only in the Middle East, but all over Europe, and the Inquisition. And let's not forget the support the Church brought to the ethnic cleansing of the North and South American Indians in the 15th and 16th Centuries, etc, etc.
But more recently, on the subject of "molestation," I would like to summarize these obvious facts, (and this is only in one country, the USA, except one instance in Canada)...
- In December 2006 the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (Roger Cardinal Mahony) agreed to a payout of $60 million to settle 45 of the over 500 pending cases concerning abuse by priests.-
In July 2007 the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles agreed to pay a $660 million settlement to hundreds of people who claimed to have been abused by clergy.
- In September of 2003 the Archdiocese of Boston agreed to pay out $85 million to 552 victims.
- In 1997 the Diocese of Dallas negotiated a $31 million settlement with victims.
- In June of 2003 the Archdiocese of Louisville made a $25.7 million settlement involving 240 victims of sexual abuse.
- On January 3, 2005 Bishop Tod Brown of the Diocese of Orange apologized to 87 alleged victims of sexual abuse and announced a settlement of $100 million following two years of mediation.
- In December of 2006 the Diocese of Phoenix agreed to pay $100,000 to William Cesolini who claimed he was sexually assaulted as a teenager by a priest.
- In Canada the Christian Brothers have paid out approximately $35 million (Canadian) in compensation.
I am very familiar with the case in Boston, which I followed closely. Cardinal Law, Archbishop of Boston, had covered up these pedophile priests for years. When the "cat got out of the bag," he fled to the Vatican to avoid criminal procesution (with the complicity of certain Catholic bureaucrats who "forgot" to take away his passport). What did the Vatican do? Pope John Paul II appointed Law to several authoritative positions in Rome and the Vatican. And to add insult to injury, Law, now Cardinal Archpriest of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, presided a novemdiales in 2005, during the funeral mass of John Paul II.
Need more info?? :lol:
tintin
Allow me to add this very "touching" detail to my last comment:
On about April 10, 2005, several members of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, a grassroots advocacy group also known as SNAP, flew to Rome to protest saying Cardinal Law's place of honor was painful to sexual abuse victims and embarrassing to Catholics. Just as the group's members arrived at St. Peter's Basilica, led by founder Barbara Blaine, police officers escorted them outside the confines of St. Peter's Square. Blaine was unable to pass out fliers to people walking into the Mass offered by Cardinal Law.
Blaine had earlier told reporters in a press conference, "We are the sons and daughters of the Catholic family who were raped, sodomized and sexually molested by priests. At this time, we should be able to focus on the Holy Father's death, instead of Cardinal Law's prominence." The College of Cardinals responded by stating that Cardinal Law was honored as a matter of his being the ordinary of one of the most important basilicas of the Roman Catholic Church.
Bert Vierstra
Theo (and Jamie), I am sorry I didn't catch the molestation remark earlier.
Tintin, there are people getting married here. No need to get into less nice aspects of certain beliefs.
tintin
You are right, Bert. Actually, I should have looked to my own religion first, before criticizing another religion's practices. I converted to the Traditional Batak religion some twenty years ago, in a great ceremony, which took place on the shore of Lake Toba, at full moon. One of our practices consists in eating a Christian missionary at least once a year. They do not taste good, but what can one do? It's part of the rituals. :roll:
Bert Vierstra
Hmmm, must be hard to find fresh ones today....
Jimbo
Although I do not share in Tintins point of view he was by no means attacking Catholicism but rather the church that runs it. I do think however he made a mistake by apprearing to blame the whole church for the actions of some of its members...a common error when attacking.
The catholic faith along with all of the major relegions preach only good. Its some of the people who preach the bad.
I hope that no matter which relegion you marry into try and understand that goodness and you will find in my opinion that all are good and are just different paths to the same destination. Good luck to you both.
VincentOG
T Shirt as philosophical device.
Seen in JJ Market, Bangkok
Bert Vierstra
I also have an idea for a T-Shirt
My heart is too big for one woman.
Reminds me of this story told by yoga teachers. God appears in the form of a woman, and the leaders of all great religions are blindfolded and stood at different angles and have to describe what they can feel in front of them. Naturally each of them......
Sorry couldn't help myself, but at least we are back on topic :)
rakini
[b]Re: RE: Marriage protestant/ catholic[/b]
[quote=Bert]I also have an idea for a T-Shirt
My heart is too big for one woman.
Reminds me of this story told by yoga teachers. God appears in the form of a woman, and the leaders of all great religions are blindfolded and stood at different angles and have to describe what they can feel in front of them. Naturally each of them......
Sorry couldn't help myself, but at least we are back on topic :)[/quote]
Gotta love that Bert.....and there are a lot of yogis out there who would agree with you, including the well-known Bhagwan Rajneesh. 8)
Theo
Vincent, love that shirt, and also the joke, it is funny.
Jim; I totally agree with you. It all comes down to the same destination, and I am sure I will find mine in time.
Froggy; I am trying to figure it out myself. What stands out for me the most is that I do believe in God and the destination we are all heading towards, and whatever path I choose or religion, I want to stroll down that road together with my love.
Dyah
My Opa (Catholic) and my Oma (Moslem) were a big couple for me. Their love are free from any religion ... eventhough for their kids... also in my family i have protestant aunt, chatolic uncle, moslem mother, ... etc. It was so many celebration ... and i like it. It was Indonesia for many years ago... big tolerance in case religion... and now??? Very sad!
rakini
[b]Re: RE: Marriage protestant/ catholic[/b]
[quote=VincentOG]T Shirt as philosophical device.
Seen in JJ Market, Bangkok
[/quote]
Absolutely brilliant!! :P
Reminds me of a story is told by yoga teachers........God appears in the form of an elephant, and the great leaders of each religion are blindfolded and stood at different ends of the elephant. They describe what God is by what they can feel in front of them. Naturally each has a different description - but the point is they are all just describing the same thing from different angles, and that the reality of God is beyond their limited ability to experience and describe it.
I agree with Jim also - there is a "truth" to be found in all religions, once you get past the dogma.
VincentOG
Well, the T Shirt reminds of the sardonic joke I was taught as a kid growing up in an Irish household and attending a Catholic school;
Fred dies and goes to Heaven and is met at the Pearly Gates by St Peter.
“I’ll show you around” says St P.
So they take a stroll.
Heaven is a very lovely place with a lots of happy people in a very beautiful garden.
“Who’s that lot over there?” enquires Fred.
“Oh, they are the Christians. We get quite a few of them up here” replies St P.
“And who are they?” asks Fred, pointing at another group of jolly souls.
“They’re the Muslims” says St P.
“And those?”
“Ah” says St P, “Hindus & Buddhists”.
And so it goes on as they stroll around Heaven. Fred encounters Jews, Jains, Zarathustrians, Sikhs, followers of Shinto, Cao Dai and so on.
Everyone is very happy and harmony reigns.
Eventually Fred & St Peter come to a very high wall on the edge of Heaven.
“What happens behind there?” asked Fred.
“Well, those are the Catholics” comes the response. “They like to think they are the only ones up here”.
BaliLife
i dunno about anyone elses destination, but mine is hopefully early retirement, laying on a beach, a beer in one hand and a gudang garam in the other... [color=green][/color]
ct
froggy
Just give her a few credit cards and put her on your bank account,,, soon it will feel as though you are married!!! marriage is the opposite of prostitution, prostitution- you pay for your pleasures, marriage- you pay her for her pleasures,,, !!! Just Kidding ... have fun Theo!!!
rakini
[b]Re: RE: Marriage protestant/ catholic[/b]
[quote=Dyah]My Opa (Catholic) and my Oma (Moslem) were a big couple for me. Their love are free from any religion ... eventhough for their kids... also in my family i have protestant aunt, chatolic uncle, moslem mother, ... etc. It was so many celebration ... and i like it. It was Indonesia for many years ago... big tolerance in case religion... and now??? Very sad![/quote]
My husband's family is also tolerant and have mixed Catholic and Muslim couples. My husband's aunt (Catholic) married a Muslim, and she told me "I pray one time a day, he prays five times, and everyone is happy". Marriage is really about the love of two people and religion should be the least of it.
tintin
In other words, it would seem to me that ONLY lawyers are able to get married in Indonesia. :) Can you believe such STUPIDITY? But even stupider is the fact that people are willing to summit to such [i]kotoran sapi[/i]. And one wonders why the world is in such a state... :cry:
Theo,
Just take option #2. That way you both will satisfy your religious needs, and you will also get to have two celebrations, two parties, and...two wedding nights. :) The hell with the f*****g State.
My brother-in-law got to be married 4 times. Once in a civil ceremony at the Town Hall of his district, in Paris, and once at the church. But since these ceremonies took place the same day, we only had one big party that day. The third time, 2 weeks later, at the Peruvian Embassy (he is a Quechua Indian), which of course resulted in another dinner. Finally, in Cincha Alta, Peru, his home town, one month later, and again a huge party, which lasted several days! Now, I believe they are really married... :lol: :lol:
Dyah
Sound good Rakini... viva big tolerance between religions!
And for Theo, i hope you can find the best way for your wedding ...
-Dyah
