Ipanema
I have read somewhere that the Indonesian government will not allow adoption of children.Does anybody know if this is correct or is it just Bali? I think I read the Balinese will not allow adoption because of religious up bringing etc but what about people living on Bali.
Bert Vierstra
I think you mean the adoption of Indonesian children by foreigners....Yes, I believe that is true....
froggy
Heck i have plenty of kids, give me your address and I will ship a few!! but really, I am not an expert on this subject and prob. shouldnt be trying to answer but,, it seems all the kids are pretty well taken care of by a family member if something happens to one of the parents, I think there are more kids in Jakarta that have no parents or adult care,, the locals in Bali are very, very child orientated and it would be , I think very , very difficult to officially, legally adopt a child.. but on the other hand if you lived in Bali, it would be very , very easy to hire a woman with a child or children and you can help her and do like a mother&aunt combo thing if you know what I am saying??? Im sure you will be getting more answers on this thread shortly from some of the seasoned ex-pats or locals.. anyone??? My wife is leaving today and our pembantu cried all day, and she is insisting on going to the airport, she loves our kids, wish we could bring her back with us.... I heard the culture shock is out of this world for them, and they get really, really homesick,,, I can see why, I miss bali and the people very much already.. but I'll be back soon... Frog
Ipanema
Yes Bert I did mean that.FrogI have read on other forums that a lot of Australians take clothes, schoolbooks etc over for orphanges, people post that they visit orphanges.
froggy
Thats strange, they must hide it very well...After being there for awhile, I figured out the ladies I usually always see asking&begging for money with their kids on their waist looking all sad with a outreached hand , was just a rackett for tourist... They get picked up and spread out by some drivers and they are collected each day.. more of a business type situation... not saying the lady doesnt need money, just the way it set up is kinda fishy......I have never seen organized begging before!! is it the Bali begging mafia? will one begger get on another beggers turf?? seems like they have their areas down like a paper route,,!! Iknow the locals tend to keep children with imparments kinda out of site..but back to orphans- I wonder if most of them tend to be Javanese? girls come over to work get pregnant? I find it very hard to believe the balanise would leave a child or the child has no family member/ compound to live in??like I said I didnt see it,,, hell my pembantu cried, cried this morning at the airport , she would have raised all my children if I had left them,,.? hey, yea, wait a minute, turn that plane around!! its not like it cost a great deal of money to raise a child if you are a local,...or I wonder if clothing , food, education, seem like a large expense for them, I guess it depends on where they go to school, and what they wear.., hey sounds familiar, just that we are on a different scale.. How about adopting a nice fat American kid,, hell we have plenty, Prob. more than anyone,, its impossible here to adopt,, bullshit red tape,, and if they did make a profecient adoption process, then all the case workers would be out of jobs. Kinda like why engineers change parts on cars every year , hell they have to account for thier time somehow..so they(fix) things that dont need fixing. thus making it hard as hell for the average Joe to work on.. well rambled enough, hope someone with fist hand knowledge will post soon, anybody?? Hell, wheres Roy when you need him,, I miss his posting's- good or bad, Frog
Ipanema
I have been travelling to Bali since 1981 and I haven't seen any orphanges but then I couldn't speak the language and it probably just looked like a school.As far as I know some beggers in Kuta are organised and work in teams but not all.And I think it would cost a lot of money to raise a child in Bali especially when you have no income.But I am no expert and these are just my opinions and observations.I agree Frog I hope someone with first hand knowledge wll post soon. Maybe there aren't any currently posting on this forum that do have first hand knowledge.
froggy
Ohh there are plenty , they just havnt jumped in yet, Bert, Tin Tin, sanurian,,,
Sanurian
Hi [b]Tina[/b]...I have read somewhere that the Indonesian government will not allow adoption of children...[/quote]Unless the laws have changed fairly recently, I don't think that's the case. However, as you would probably imagine, the process is by no means an easy one (nor should it be). The following (brief) information is from the USA Embassy in Jakarta web-site at:[url="http://www.usembassyjakarta.org/consular/IVADOPTIONS.html"]http://www.usembassyjakarta.org/consula ... TIONS.html[/url]* Prospective adopters must be between the ages of 30 and 45.* The couple must have been married for at least 5 years.* The couple must be residents of Indonesia for a minimum of 2 years and have a permit issued by the local authorities (Rukun Tetangga, Rukun Warga, Kelurahan, Kecamatan), and a letter from their Embassy in Jakarta (statement of domicile).* Couples can be either childless, have their own natural children, or have previously adopted an Indonesian child.* The couple should believe in God.* Both parents must be able to appear in Court.* The adoptive child must be less than 5 years old.* The adoptive child must be in the care of a registered and authorized social welfare organizationRecent legislation also stipulates that an adoptive child must be of the same religion as the adoptive parents. Where the religion of the child's natural parents is not known, the child will be deemed to be Muslim.[/quote]The following link has lots of other useful links related to orphanages:[url="http://www.myadoptionlinks.com/Indonesia.html"]http://www.myadoptionlinks.com/Indonesia.html[/url]And if that's not enough, here are a few more:[url="http://www.carryforkids.org/"]http://www.carryforkids.org/[/url][url="http://www.filosbali.net/BaliOrphanages.htm"]http://www.filosbali.net/BaliOrphanages.htm[/url][url="http://www.webpastor.com/balikids.htm"]http://www.webpastor.com/balikids.htm[/url][url="http://www.balihati.org/wedo.htm"]http://www.balihati.org/wedo.htm[/url][url="http://www.bali.com/charities.html"]http://www.bali.com/charities.html[/url][url="http://www.yakee.de/orphanage/bali.php"]http://www.yakee.de/orphanage/bali.php[/url]Moving on a bit now, you state that:...As far as I know some beggars in Kuta are organised and work in teams but not all...[/quote]Unfortunately, that [b]is[/b] true (and not only around Kuta). For example, I have seen, on many occasions, Balinese groups from Kintamani plying traffic lights around Sanur and Nusa Dua only to be picked up at the end of the day in expensive-looking vehicles. And before you get me wrong here, I do [b]not[/b] mean to suggest that all the "pretend/employed beggars" are from the Kintamani region. There is a whole other contingency of Javanese "beggars" originating from Kedonganan (Jimbaran), etc.It doesn't surprise me at all that there are unscrupulous individuals making money out of these practices. How much the "beggars" actually get is anybody's guess. There are even some women who rent babies and put on acts, both at traffic lights and in front of bars/restaurants. Sad but true. And sometimes you can see some very well-dressed "beggars" who are quite obviously not as poor as they pretend. Even some local school-children occasionally get in to the act - put on some "rags" and "sad faces" and wait for hand-outs. :shock:
Tinkerbelle
Hi Tina, I also have been visiting Bali since the 80's but was young and partied then ha ha. There are plenty of orphanages there my social club here in Perth helps about 3 with food education clothing etc. The main one is called Giri asih in Negara and Venih Kasih in Singaraja. A lady called Rosa in Indonesia is contacted if any of our members go over there and she takes you to the orphanages and explains by email before you go what is needed where. We have photos at our club of the kids and the work thats being done there. We are sending some builders over in May to build a front shop kiosk for them to sell phone cards. The main aim is them becoming self sufficient.
Ipanema
Yes Tink I too partied the 80's and 90's Do you have a web site for your club. Sounds interesting.Sanurian, thanks for links and information regarding adoption and beggars.From the quote in your post I can tell why I have heard a couple of stories regarding adoption which while seemed different now makes some sense.
Tinkerbelle
Hi Tina, here is a lovely story you might want to read from one of our members Roger on his trip to Giri asih. We do not have a web site sorry just a small social club in Perth doing our bit for Bali.Posted by Perthdodgy on Monday, 11. October 2004 at 17:20 Bali Time:This is the story of my visit to the Giri Asih orphanage and others on the day.This journey started before I even left for my holiday on Bali. It was at the suggestion of Kev, who was going to Bali for his first time that he wanted to see more than just the touristy side of Bali. As a result of this request I started planning a visit to the Giri Asih orphanage.I approached John Hawkins of the Indie Bar social club that actually sponsors the kids education at Giri Asih in regards to what would be suitable to take as gifts for the children. I had wanted to take practical gifts that would be of use to the children rather than appear with a handful of lollies to give out and so become another whitey visitor who becomes another rubbernecker without bringing any practical help to these kids. The response that John gave me was that anything is gratefully accepted but that school / educational based supplies would have the greatest long term impact.At this stage I re-established contact with Templers (Pete and Barb) , from Adelaide, whom I had met in Bali last year as a result of contact via the Bali travel forum. It was thru this forum that that the social club came to choosing to sponsor Giri Asih.Peter and Barbara asked if they could join in on the trip to GA as they were looking for an orphanage to visit this year. I agreed that it would be more beneficial to join forces and resources.Kev and me flew into Bali on Aug 6 and immediately got into contact with Pete and Barbara. Pete and Barbara had already established contact with Rosa, who is the lady co-coordinating orphanages throughout Bali. We are due to meet Rosa on Monday Aug 8th at the Stadium Cafe, just south of Kuta square, where her French husband works as a chef.On the Monday evening at 6:30 pm we got to meet with Rosa to establish what was needed at the orphanage and what we would need to buy to top up the supplies that we all had brought over from Australia. Rosa had suggested that we do our shopping at Makro, which is a bulk warehouse that retails to the public. Rosa had also offered to use her discount card to allow us to purchase more with our meager resources. We made an appointment for Wednesday evening to go to Makro and Rosa would drive us there and back and act as a guide for us.Wednesday Aug 10th Rosa picked us up from the hotel where Templers were staying at, and went off to the Makro store. This store is absolutely amazing! It sells everything from fruit and veges to clothes to electronic goods. A Phillips home sound system or a 68cm TV for $200 aud, mountain bikes worked out to $38 each. We ended up purchasing white socks, Blank lined exercise books, toothpaste, sanitary pads for the girls and a few barrels of chuppa chups as treats for the kids. All up we spent 1,462,025 Indonesian Rupiah which works out to approx $225 Australian. This was made up of a hundred dollar donation from the Indie bar social club and the balance put up by both me and Pete. Most of the shopping was done in normal timeframe but trying to get the right exercise books proved to be more of a hassle than we expected, that took over an hour and a half but in the end we got what we were after, which is blank lined exercise books that the kids can write in.This was added to the supplies both me and Pete had brought from home. Pete had brought, 31 backpacks, 1 soccer ball, 12 tennis balls, 2 cricket bats, 2 tennis rackets,4 Frisbees, 5 pks of 30 super bounce balls,115 ballpoint pens, 110 pencils with erasers on the ends,20 normal pencils, 3 pks of 30 coloured pencils, 2pks of 50 coloured markers, 16 pks of 4 crayons, bucket of jumbo sized coloured chalks, 28 erasers, 16 rulers, 4 normal scissors and 4 craft scissors as well as towels , soft toys , hairties, 3 hairbrushes, 10 toothbrushes and about a dozen English / Indonesian dictionaries.I had brought 5 basket balls , 5 soccer balls , 10pks of 3 rulers , 10 pks of maths sets, 10 sets of geometry sets, 5 boxes of 30 ballpoint pens, 10 pks of 50 coloured textas, 10 pks of coloured pencils, 3 calculators, 3 ball pumps, 10 pks of 8 toothbrushes.So with the combined resources of both of us we have more than enough supplies for the children of Giri Asih and have some leftover for the other orphanages.Rosa then asked us if we would mind taking a detour thru Sanglah Hospital as an employee of her husbands cafe' has stacked his motorcycle and has no family to help support him while he is in hospital. She wants to drop off some snacks and goodies for him so that he doesn't starve while he is there.WOW!!! What an eye-opener that visit to the hospital is.The hospital system in Indonesia is totally different to what we normally expect from a hospital here at home.this is one place you do NOT want to end up in!It seems that you only get treatment for life threatening injuries. If you need any drugs or medications , you do not receive them unless you pay for them in advance, ie no money no treatment. So effectively your family supplies everything from the linen on the bed to your PJ's to your meals. That's right , the family brings in the food and cooks it for you and feeds you. They also wash you and do the physiotherapy if needed. How do I get the point across if you have no family to look after you in hospital and to pay for the treatments and medications then you may as well not bother going to the hospital for treatment cos you just won't get it.The amenities that I saw in Sanglah were so basic that it would take us right back to the 1930's in the standard of hospital care. When the bomb went off in Kuta and all the injured were taken to Sanglah, there is no way in the world this place was ever able to cope with the influx of people needing help. This place would have been totally overwhelmed with the dead and the dying. When you get to see the place first hand it just drives home just how lucky we are to have a medical system that by rights we have no reason in the world to complain about. Nowadays I get so angry when I hear people slagging off our hospital system here at home and I just wish these moaners and complainers could go and see what I saw at Sanglah. This is something that will stay with me for a long long time to come. Kev was virtually speechless the whole time we were there.I managed to get a slight peek at the burns unit that the Aussie govt has built and I must say that it is of western standards but I can't help but feel that it is a little like closing the gate after the horse has bolted. At least the locals who suffer burns will be able to get real treatment in proper conditions for their burn but then again it comes down to the old no money no treatment scenario so if it will be used all that often , god only knows.If you ever talk to a local who has to go to the hospital to visit someone , ask if you can go along, and have a look at the real world for the Balinese there. You will be as shocked and as stunned as we all were. None of us really said much on the walk back to the car.On the Morning of august 15th Rosa picked us up from the Mc Donalds on Kuta beach to go to the GA to distribute these supplies. Kev has bailed out of the orphanage trip which I think had something to do with our visit to Sanglah hospital and so it is just down to me , Pete and Barb and Rosa who is driving her own car for the trip. We made a point of paying for the fuel for her and it still works out cheaper than hiring a van and driver but in hindsight , we may have been better off to hire the transport. The orphanage is about 120 km away from bustling Kuta but the trip to get there took allmost 3 hours due to the fact that there is so much traffic on this road that nothing travels over 60 kph at the best of times. If you think the traffic in Kuta and Denpasar is bad , wait till you travel the road up to Gilimanuk where the ferry travels over to java. You can see Java on the horizon , it is that close. The traffic is horrific, between the trucks and the high speed tourist buses , the place is like an overloaded raceway. The actual orphanage is on the main road from Kuta to the port where the ferries travel over to the island of Java and as so is actually very easy to find although it is not easy to get there due to the traffic congestion that must be seen to be believed.We arrived there at about 11:30 am to find that Rotoract (the indo version of Rotary) was also there distributing supplies.When we arrived we unloaded and Rosa took over the proceedings and started to distribute the goods to all the individual children. All the goods have been put into small gift packs that were given to each child as they were called up. Each gift pack was made up of a pair of white socks, a toothbrush, a tube of toothpaste, 2 small balls 2 pens, 2 pencils 4 exercise books, a backpack a ruler and some were lucky enuff to get a large ball (which they are responsible for) or a pack of coloured textas which they were to share with the others. All the supplies we brought were given to all the children we had met. Of course Pete had to raise merry hell by grabbing a handful of superballs and throwing them amongst the kids and the bloody things bounced everywhere and all the kids started scrambling after the balls. Good on ya Pete , that lightened up the rather otherwise staid and organized presentation that was happening.The children themselves are absolutely delightful. They are always smiling, always came up afterwards to say thank you for the gifts even if they couldn't speak any English. The kids came across as being very appreciative of all they receive as they have so little.I went for a bit of a wander around the place just checking it out for myself , just to satisfy my own curiosity as well as taking the opportunity to sneak a quick nicotine fix while I could.Even though two of the dormitories have been supplied and built by a Dutch company there is still one dorm where the smaller children sleep and live, this dorm is of such a low standard you would not even consider using it as a junk shed, and we have kids living in these conditions. When you compare the poorness of our poor with the poorness you see in a 3rd world country such as Indonesia , our poor are very well off and have no real reason to complain. Apart from the 2 new dorms all the buildings at the orphanage are in such a state of disrepair they are well overdue for replacement. Walls are cracking, ceilings falling in, windows falling out. They have about half a dozen chickens for an egg supply and the occasional source of protein, as well as having a young cow that grazes the yards to supply them with milk and a calcium source for healthy bones. They also have a seedling program supplied by Rotoract so that they can grow their own vegetable to supplement the meager rice supply that is provided by the govt 4 times per year.The communal area where the presentation was taking place has a corrugated iron roof the deep red/brown colour of rust as it is just rust that is holding it all together. There were patches where the woven reed type ceiling is starting to fall in.From the main road to the buildings is a bit of a small ravine maybe 10 meters deep. Crossing this ravine is a small bridge/walkway type of structure with a corrugated iron roof covering which is also little more than rust. The state of this walkway is unstable at the least and downright dangerous would be closer to the mark. There are boards missing in places and there is guardrail missing in other places. It is also not really stable as it moves when you walk over it and we have school kids using this everyday.As a standard of living that they have it is very difficult to describe but suffice to say the standard is extremely low and can only be seen to be believed.We got to meet Dessy who is being sponsored by the Indi social club and the club has covered the costs of her tourism school cost in the form of an scholarship type thing, will be by now be studying at tourism school so she can get a job in the hotel industry and as such improve her chances of a better future. With all the school supplies we have brought all of these children will have the chance to do better at school and flowing from that will be the chance of a better future for all these children.When we were leaving, Dessy (with the big eyes) farewelled us with the blessing of health and happiness. My only reply that I could make was that the way to make us the most happy was to do well at tourism school. Dessy is very nervous about going to tourism school and needs all the encouragement that she can get. Dessy made a point of specially thanking all the members of Indi social club for helping her for the chance of a better future and she promises to do well at the tourism school.After a couple of hours it was time to leave and go to the next orphanage as this was going to be a tour of four places that Rosa looks after. We arrived at the next place with the couple from Adelaide that were also at Giri Asih so I get the impression that this was going to be a big organized trip with lots of territory to cover. Anyway we got to the next place and the croweater couple, who we met at Giri Asih, also pulled up with their driver but their car was sounding like a truck due to a blown muffler. At least they heard us coming so there was not going to be a surprise visit.This couple do some serious fund raising for this place , thru a local school back in Adelaide I think, but they rolled up with heaps of rice , seedling packets for the veggie garden, and a heap of other stuff for the kids. What was amazing was that this couple cleared all the school debts for the kids and the lady who looks after them had tears streaming down her face in gratitude because she had no way of paying the school debt.While we were there me and Pete noticed a series of ponds all interlinked with literally hundreds of goldfish kinda fish it. When Pete asked what the fish were for they reply was stunning. Not a word was spoken but the gesture was unmistakable with the gesture off the hand to the mouth meaning they were for food. I dunno about you but I reckon goldfish are horrible eating but when you are poor you accept protein from every source you can. Very resourceful these people are!Something else I have noticed is that orphanages often run out of rice although they get quarterly deliveries from the govt warehouse and I found out the reason is that as only rice is supplied and no veges or meat or sources of protein , what they do is sell off a portion of the rice supply to be able to buy veges and meager amounts of meat for the protein value. So by these orphanages growing their own veges and chooks and fish then the supplied rice will last much longer than otherwise. Another problem with a lot of places is that they lack refrigeration to be able to store perishable food for longer periods of time but that causes a problem further down the track with larger power bills that they struggle to pay as it is now as they receive bugger all financial funding from anyone.The kitchen at this particular place consisted of just a bare tiled room with one small table to prepare the food but there was no sign of a stove or any cooking facilities but then again we didn't get to look everywhere around the place tho.As time went by we moseyed on to the next place on our itinerary for the day. Now this was a catholic orphanage situated next to the first ever catholic church that had been built in Bali a long long time ago. The place is set up very European style in its architecture and in the method of how they do things. This place was set up in the northern Italian come southern Austrian way of doing things. So I kind of knew how things were to be done and what to expect and believe me I wasn't disappointed.When you first arrive the impression is given of a very neat well maintained institution and you are met by the nuns there and shown in. We had got there during the midafternoon and all the kids there were having their afternoon nap. Whilst we were all sitting around talking and enjoying a slice of cake and a container of drinking water, there was suddenly a line of children passing thru the room to greet us even tho we had specifically requested that the kids not be disturbed during their afternoon nap. Now I know thru my family experiences of European church methods that all these kids were told to get to greet the visitors! Blind freddy could have seen that with the sudden appearance of all the kids at once, some of them obviously still half asleep.The conversation then turned to a straight out question if we could offer any financial assistance to this place. I know that all places are struggling to varying degrees but this place gets the govt rice deliveries as well as some support from the Catholic Church and this was well reflected in the standards of the buildings, the state of the lawns, the lush vegetable gardens and the various sounds of animals that they have on the property. This was in stark contrast to the sheer poverty of the previous place we had just come from which had consisted of sheer dirt yards and ramshackle buildings. We politely declined on the basis that we were supporting other places and this was just a visit with Rosa. This was politely accepted.We were then informed that the children would like to sing us some songs. It's now I'm thinking yeah sure it's their choice! It was all so stage managed and like I said I've seen it all before in Europe. The children sang a collection of religious songs in both Indonesian and in English. After the performance most of the children racked off to the privacy of the own rooms I presume but a few stayed back to talk with us and to improve on their English skills.When we were ready to leave we were again asked if we could leave behind a small donation and to be honest after the singing performance we felt obliged that we had to give something and of course we all did. Probably what I am objecting to is the stage managed show and then expecting a donation afterwards. I never enjoy feeling obliged to contribute for something that I did not ask for.The children? Immaculately dressed, polite and delightful as well.Then we were off to our last visit of the day. By now it is getting very late in the afternoon and we realize it is going to be well after dark before we are going to get back to our respective hotels and what makes it worse is the lack of suitable liquid (read beer) refreshment we have had today. The system doesn't react all that well to the sudden denial of alcohol all that well.This next place we went to was a real eye opener for me and for someone who considers themselves quite open to different cultures and priding myself on knowing a little on a lot of subjects I came to learn some new things to add to my knowledge base.This place was is a Moslem orphanage so the first thing I had to do was put away my own prejudices because I like to think of Bali as the Hindu island in a sea of Islam and would never want the Balinese to lose their own special form of Hinduism that they have modified to suit their circumstances, so with doing this I was pleasantly surprised at what I discovered.When we arrived there, both carloads of us, all the kids came out to greet us as in the other places but I was expecting a handshake as we had previously received but instead of shaking our hand in greeting as we expected what they did was place our hand to their foreheads. Now I was quite taken aback at this, this I had never experienced before. Now I'm not to sure exactly what this signifies but I take it as being a sign of respectfulness and humbleness. If I am wrong about this then my apologies.This place also qualifies on the poor of the poor scale even down to the outside fire with the pot on top where they cook their meals. The electrics in this place are shocking as there is no wiring to speak of but they have extension cords strung up everywhere as a replacement. This even extended to the fluro light mounted on the palm tree out the back. There was the mandatory vege garden, handful of chooks and a cow, so all appears normal there.We all entered the room where the proceedings were to take place and we all made sure to take of our shoes as the residents there did although we were told that we didn't have. I take this as being a sign of respectfulness when entering someone elses home. The room where Rosa was handing out the gift/education packs was actually their class room and there was not one scrap of furniture in the room. The children sit on the floor when they attend in-house religious classes. The only thing to indicate that it is a class room is the blackboard on the wall covered in Arabic writing. Now comes a curiosity bit from me. Why is it that all the Islamic studies where-ever you see them are done in Arabic instead of the peoples mother tongue in this case Indonesian. I find this is a little like us doing bible studies in Hebrew which is a foreign language to me although the bible was originally written in Hebrew. Can anybody answer why this is so, with all the studies being in Arabic? I've got no idea why and would be interested to find out.The joy on the kid's faces is once again unmistakable when they receive their goodies as well as a ball or play toy and a chuppa chup as well. Kids are the same the world over eh!We got to meet a delightful little boy there who is also being helped by the couple from Adelaide. Now from what I can gather these kids are going to a normal govt school, which explains the religious studies room, and it seems that if you have some form of disability or disfigurement then you are not accepted by the school to attend. So much for everyone getting an equal chance in life eh! Now this delightful although slightly shy little fella has had no education at in his 10 short years on this earth because he was unfortunate enuff to be born with a cleft palate or otherwise known as a hairlip. When he can see that you are not disturbed by his appearance he actually becomes very friendly and to a point quite affectionate. The couple from Adelaide were organizing his pre-med checks, trying to allay his fears, before he flies to Adelaide to get his cleft palate corrected by surgery. This will mean the world of difference to this little lad (he's 10 but looks as small as a 5 yo) not only to his self esteem but also to his education opportunities of which he has quite a lot of catching up to do when he begins to attend school. I really hope he does well!I also snuck outside for the illicit nicotine fix and ended up engaging the supervisor in conversation, although his English wasn't flash and my Bahasia is absolutely hopeless I ended up having quite an interesting conversation with him. He was the only one who actually tried to talk with us, but when he did you could tell how grateful he was for any and all the help that he could get. The most disturbing aspect of our conversation was the difficulties of his place getting support solely on the premise that because they are Moslem, nobody wants to touch them with a 10 foot pole in regards to support. This actually made me reflect on myself and examine my own unknown prejudices that I didn't know I had. I cant help but think and also wonder that in the future wether the small fella with the cleft palate will see us as friends who helped or as infidels. This train of thought leads to a huge can of worms. This indicates to me that we can do more good by helping than by hurting. If we do the right thing by them , then they will do the right thing by us. Everybody is human , regardless of religion, and should be helped if they need the help.It was now approaching 5:30pm and it was time to get going back to Kuta. We have the joy of a 3 hr drive back due to the road traffic and I can tell when we got back at after 8pm we were glad it was all over.It was a bloody huge, draining day!Would I do this trip again? Well I don't really know the answer to that, I'm more of a party animal than a humanitarian although I do have that humanitarian streak in me, which is why I became a nurse for 9 yrs.If I did do it again then I would organize my own transport and just go to the places of my own choices rather than the big tour of quite a few places. It can get overwhelming at times.Would I recommend anybody else to do the sort of thing I did?Oh hell yes!Go for yourself and have a look and have your mind and you senses blown away.Have yourself question your own ethics, prejudices and moral judgments.It will make you appreciate just how well off our own spoilt children are.Many thanks to Templers (Pete and Barb) for all your help and assistance in making this trip possible.I couldn't have done it without you!Oh and what did I do when I got back to Kuta?Had a feed and went out untill 4am , partying of course!!I've got a standard of misbehavior to maintain
Ipanema
Thanks Tink great read and what an adventure.
Thorsten
Thanks Tinkerbelle,an interesting read !On my flight to Singapore three weeks ago, I was seated beside a German lady who told me she has visited her 18 yrs old daughter on Bali.The daughter had just finished school and would volunteer now in a Catholic orphanage in North-West Bali for six months, she got the job via a Catholic organisation in Germany which supports this orphanage.For the woman it was the first time in Bali and obviously even the first time overseas, she was very excited, so a lively conversation developed.Although I have known about the Christian community in this part of Bali, I was surprised about the Catholic orphanage, I got curious and asked her about the kids - where do they come from, about the organisation of this orphanage and the influence of the Catholic Curch?The lady told me, that most of the kids there are actually not [i]really[/i] orphans, most of them would descend from families, where parents became divorced or one part of the parents had died and the new partner would not accept or want the kids from the previous marriage!Given the fact that the orphanage is not limited to Christian children, I was astonished and could hardly imagine, that a Balinese Hindu would ever hand over his/her child to the welfare of an Catholic organisation, raised by nuns in the thesis of the Catholic Church, for a Muslim this should be unthinkable as well!The conversation drifted into a discussion about the (sometimes dubious) role of NGOs in developing countries in general and I could not conceal my scepticism in respect to a Catholic institution raising Balinese kids, I tried to elaborate the importance of religion as the basement for cultural and social life in Balinese community, then I told her about the Helen Flavel Foundation and about the kids I sponsor.The lady was very interested and I showed her some images on the display of my digi cam, by coincidence she also got to see some pics of Kadek's nieces in the hotel pool, she said the priest of the orphanage would have a swimming pool too, even with a springboard and he would allow kids to use it for a little fee!!!Food for thoughts -eh?Best regardsThorstenPS: I've never seen this orphanage personally, this is just a summary of a conversation in an air-plane, but the lady sounded reliable to me.
FreoGirl
Often 'orphanages' are actually more 'children's homes'. From the contact I've had with orphanages on both Bali and Lombok I've found that a good number of the children have parents.The reason they are in the home is because the parents are too poor to look after them. They have no means to provide education, and in many cases a proper diet.There are some very poor areas on Bali and Lombok where this happens.It does not have to be because a parent died or remarried, although that can be a factor. Sometimes one or both parents go to Malaysia to work and are never heard of again.Also, there is no real child welfare organisation that can look after abused children. On occassion family or village heads will intervene in a child abuse case, and the child will be placed in a children's home. As to adoption - the large majority of the kids I've seen in these places are well over 5 years old. So they are there for their childhood if Sanurian's post is accruate.I do know at least two westerners that have adopted Indonesian children, although both live in Lombok, and both are married to Indonesians.
balimudder
My balinese wife and I (American) looked into adopting. We were told that the only way was to adopt one of the babies abandoned in the hospitals right after they are born. So this means within about a week because if no one adopts the baby it goes to an orphanage. But no one is allowed to adopt from the orphange so the child stays there until they are old enough to live on their on. There are some 60 and 70 year old still living in orphanges in Denpasar. Also, the woman who we were told to contact at the hospital was only there 3 times in 2 months when my wife called there everyday. She supposedly was there from 8 til 12am. We have since adopted 2 girls from her family whose parents died.
Sanurian
Hi [b]balimudder[/b]...if no one adopts the baby it goes to an orphanage. But no one is allowed to adopt from the orphange...[/quote]Two things first off:1. I have never adopted an Indonesian child, and2. Meaning I am [b]not[/b] an expert in these mattersHowever, I have never seen any "rules/laws" that stipulate a child cannot be adopted from an orphanage. Who told you that?In the case of Bali, I can see where some extra confusion comes into play. (Actually, it's not only Bali but the tricky part relates to the definition of who is an "orphan"?)Some parents declare their children as "orphans" when they can't afford to pay schooling fees, etc. But the "orphans" still have parents. Some couples have a missing partner (husband or wife, for whatever reasons) and again, can't cope with the financial strains, so put their children in an "orphanage". "True orphans", [i]ie[/i], children with [b]no[/b] parents, are another scenario again.I can easily imagine situations where one or other, or both, parents put their children into orphanages for the time being (on "hold", so to speak). So when it comes to adopting one, it can easily become a very convoluted process. I'm sure you know what I mean by that.If you look further into the adoption process as portrayed on the US Embassy site I quoted before:[url="http://www.usembassyjakarta.org/consular/IVADOPTIONS.html"]http://www.usembassyjakarta.org/consula ... TIONS.html[/url]..you can easily see how complicated it is. You can also see that it's [b]not[/b] impossible to adopt a child from an orphanage.:cry:
Thorsten
I cannot help myself, but sometimes I'm very sceptical when it comes to orphanages and also to adoption.I always bear in mind that this orphans/ adoption complex is also a very profitable market for some people and abuse of the system is sometimes programmed, so I appreciate that high hurdles been set up before it comes to an adoption, especially in so-called developing countries.When desperate parents are more or less forced to park their children in orphanages, simply because they cannot afford to provide them food, roof and education, then the whole system is sick, why the hell feed the kids in orphanages instead for supporting the parents, why is money available for the orphanage but not for the child in misery?Was it Madonna, who "hijacked" this little African boy last year and took him in her private jet to London?Kids are sold all over the world for good commissions, there is a market for this and corrupted authorities, pseudo-charity organisations and even very well reputable international organisations are involved in this system, which is sometimes criminal, sometimes mendacious, unnecessary, harmful, but also sometimes good for the "orphan" and the adopting family despite of the money flow.Orphanages are necessary in many cases and in many cases they are not!Why is the Catholic Church hosting Balinese kids in an orphanage, when there are still parents around, where is the sense in this instead of supporting these kids at home and will all the generous supporters in Europe or somewhere else in the world know about the reality?Does anybody know, what is the annual Government support (speak money) for an orphanage per child in RI?How many NGOs around the world are "taking care" for kids, mainly to justify their existence and how many doubtful welfare projects are created, only to collect money and to create a system of addiction?Don't get me wrong, I don't want to discredit countless honourable organisations, projects and an army of volunteers putting a lot of effort into the intention to improve something on this globe and I appreciate this a lot, but often this (what I call) charity industry is making the things even worse than actually improving something.Was it one or two years ago, I read a remarkable interview with a minister of Kenya, he demanded to stop [i]every [/i] foreign developing aid or welfare program for his country!The interview was mind blowing when he described a spiral of foreign aid and local addiction, amazing how he portrayed the damage for the national economy [b]due[/b] the influence of developing aid programs and also how he was able to verify his point with numbers.Sorry would love to provide a link, but unfortunately I cannot remember anymore.Best regardsThorsten
Sanurian
Hi, ThorstenI agree with you when you say:...When desperate parents are more or less forced to park their children in orphanages, simply because they cannot afford to provide them food, roof and education, then the whole system is sick...[/quote]It certainly is a "sick system", as you say, but please remember that it's not confined to Indonesia. Many orphanages in western countries have their problems too....Does anybody know, what is the annual Government support (speak money) for an orphanage per child in RI?...[/quote]I'm not sure about this but I'd be inclined to say very little (if anything). Time to do some "research" on this to find out the "facts". Like, where and how many "government sponsored" orphanages are there in this country?...why is money available for the orphanage but not for the child in misery?...[/quote][b]What[/b] money is available where, exactly? It seems to me that the bulk of orphanages throughout Indonesia are set up by foreigners and more or less run by them. If some of them have affiliations with "Christian" groups, so be it. At least they're doing something. Ain't nothing perfect in this world. :shock:
Bert Vierstra
Well, a good start would be to google for Panti Anak or Panti Sosial Anak....
Bert Vierstra
(On a lighter note) More Indonesian Orphans:[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6404425.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6404425.stm[/url]
