rhondo
[b]RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud[/b]
I am still at a loss to understand why people want to buy a house where you have almost no legal rights to property ownership and worse no legitimate legal remedy when you run into the likes of a "carpetbagger". Is it just exciting ? What am I missing ? Why would you not just rent some place or lease it. As for4 giving someone $2500 dollars because you put your trust in them, I think clearly as painful as it may be your trust was misguided. People you can trust rarely put you in a place where you have to trust them. Trust is based on behavior.
I love Bali. I would love to own a home there, but the idea that one of the risks is getting swindled without recourse is enough to keep me renting.
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud[/b]
[quote=Roy]Adele, if you could be so kind, I would ask you to send me a PM and inform me of the name of this children’s foundation and the woman who swindled you out of AUS $2,500.00. [/quote]
I am interested too.
Bert Vierstra
[b]RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud[/b]
Yes, just go to the Police.....
And keep us informed about the progress.
Do not publish any names on this or any other forum please....
Its a good lesson, stay away from organisations that are not accountable...
Thorsten
[quote]Its a good lesson, stay away from organisations that are not accountable...[/quote]
So how will anybody know which organisation is [i]accountable[/i] and which is not, when fraud is not published ? :shock: :?
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: RE: Possible Charity Fraud[/b]
[quote=Thorsten][quote]Its a good lesson, stay away from organisations that are not accountable...[/quote]
So how will anybody know which organisation is [i]accountable[/i] and which is not, when fraud is not published ? :shock: :?[/quote]
First of all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, just publishing names is not such a good idea.
Secondly, I meant : You should not give to organisations that cannot open their book keeping for you.
Bert Vierstra
Ofcourse we can publish a list of charities that are accountable and those that are not....
Maybe we find a complot of elderly ladies that are financing their holidays / stay on Bali by doing good :)
Thorsten
[quote]First of all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, just publishing names is not such a good idea. [/quote]
That's right and therefore I wrote:
[quote]I think, who ever has knowledge (and I’m talking here about knowledge not suspect)...[/quote]
I was not talking about rumours, gossip, suspects or hearsay, [b]but[/b] when somebody will cheat me and I can document this, [b]then[/b] I will not hesitate ot make it public !
best regards
Thorsten
Roy
[b]RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud[/b]
Adele, if you could be so kind, I would ask you to send me a PM and inform me of the name of this children’s foundation and the woman who swindled you out of AUS $2,500.00.
While I can understand your reluctance to provide this information publicly, the problem with the description in your post is that it sounds a lot like several organizations here, so that leaves me wondering, (and likely others too) which one you are referring.
As for this property swindle discussion, I thought this topic had been beaten to death here over the past years. Anyone who is serious about property acquisition in Bali should do an in-depth search on this forum as all elements, including the legal requirements needed, types of leases, notaris versus attorney, and ways to protect one self have been fully exhausted in the past.
Stories such as Alice’s are quite rare in Bali, and in eight years I have never met anyone here who had a similar story so long as they kept their head on straight and followed proper legal procedures.
Thorsten
Hi Adele,
due what you wrote, your intention to support children and their families I would suggest to contact either Helen Falvel (HFF) or Noel Allen (rotary), both organisations are 100% trustable and doing a great job in Bali, so you will not regret!
Both are not taking one single cent for administration fee, so every $ will directly benefit the people who need it!
best regards
Thorsten
Thorsten
[b]RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud[/b]
Hi Adele,
sorry to hear about your lost of money, it is very annoying and disgusting when certain people abuse the noble intention of others to help for their personal benefit.
I consider this as a double theft, firstly at the sponsor who’s willing to donate this money, secondly at the people in need which will not get this proposed support, this kind of fraud is even more harmful since it will leave doubts due the credibility of other, correct working organisations and create a bad image which will stop other potential sponsors to help.
I think, who ever has knowledge (and I’m talking here about knowledge not suspect) about an organisation or person who’s misusing the generosity and helpfulness to support and improve the life of people in need has also a [b]responsibility[/b] to name this in public!
Sometimes it’s an open secret, that an “organisation” is abusing the system for years, everybody knows about in the region, lots of people made already personally experiences due this, but at the other hand there is this lethargy, what can I do, why should I get involved in this, what can I change, it’s not my business, I’m living here and don’t need problems due this! Especially this lethargy enables these frauds to continue, in fact they are not stealing the money from the sponsors, they are taking the money from the children, from the people to those this support was actually meant!
Fraud is one thing, fraud under the umbrella of a charity organisation is another thing, losing money and personal disappointment is annoying but not so dramatically, but at the other side will be people in lack of medical treatment, in lack of clean water, in lack of education, in miserable life conditions, homeless, sometimes starving, dying.
Adele, I guess you wouldn’t hand over somebody you don’t know 2,500 $ in cash without a receipt a kind of contract, the receipt of a bank transfer or anything else, so when you can prove your donation in any way then make this case public and stop this scam, I’m quite certain you was not the only one!
Best regards
Thorsten
Adele
[b]RE: Lost my House to a Balinese in Ubud[/b]
Dear Thorsten, you are right but I will speak to Roy and Bert first to see what they think about me speaking pubicly about this. This women has done it before on a smaller scale AUS$200.00 to a friend of mine. She does not live in Bali but manages to get to Bali between 2-4 times a year and she is only on a disability pension herself (one wonders how she can afford so many plane tickets) I was very stupid about transferring her the money but she said some of it was needed urgently and I would get the rest when I got to bali two weeks later of course this didn't happen. I have bank records of this transaction, and am thinking of taking this to the federal police because I am certain this has happened plenty of times before, I can't be the only one hey!
a leap of faith
Charity scams operate all over the world. The problem, as anyone raising funds for a legitimate charity will tell you, is that potential donors are increasingly sceptical about the legitimacy of an organisation or its effectiveness because of stories like the one in this thread.
My advice for anyone wanting to donate a large sum to a charity is:
1) Seek clarification of their charitable status from the regulatory body in the country from which the operate- such as the Charity Commision in the UK
2) Contact the charity directly and ask for their annual report and accounts.
3) Go and talk to them in their head or regonal office.
Charities need support, don't just write them all off as scams.
and.. for goodness sake if you are going to support a charity in Bali or anywhere in the developing world how about giving your money to organisations that meet the needs of children before you give to yet another animal charity.
.. unless it's one that advocates the wholsale slaughter of stray dogs in Bali!
.. just a personal view.. ok ....i'm gone :-)
Bert Vierstra
[b]Re: RE: Possible Charity Fraud[/b]
[quote=Rafeal][quote=Bert][quote=Thorsten][quote]Its a good lesson, stay away from organisations that are not accountable...[/quote]
So how will anybody know which organisation is [i]accountable[/i] and which is not, when fraud is not published ? :shock: :?[/quote]
First of all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, just publishing names is not such a good idea.
Secondly, I meant : You should not give to organisations that cannot open their book keeping for you.[/quote]
Bert,
You say that you must be innocent until proven guilty with regards to this Charity scam. This happened in Indonesia and not in America, so why would you say the scammer(s) should be innocent until proven guilty. [/quote]
Because I say so. There is Indonesia, there is the US, and there is me 8)
People are free to pick-up on my "Bali Charity Review" suggestion however...
Roy
Hey “Leap” it’s great to hear from you again! We have to careful about the “wholsale slaughter of stray dogs in Bali” as they make such tasty sate! :P
On a serious note, as “Leap” points out, charity scams operate all over the world, and his advice is rock solid. Charity scamming in Bali, while not particularly rampant, is an ongoing problem. When you think of it, in Bali, it is particularly difficult to avoid all together, especially when visiting the island, as we are under Bali’s magical spells when we are here. Unless we spend our entire stay in the five star resorts, the chances are, while getting around Bali, that we will be exposed to poverty in one way or another.
The worse thing about “charity scams” in my view, is that one of the most noble aspects of our humanity, our heart felt desire to help other people, is violated. For me, that is even worse than having your home robbed.
Let’s take up Bert’s challenge and each of us contribute to a list of bona fide charity organizations that are either based in Bali or have significant operations here in Bali. I would suggest that contributions to this list only comprise of those organizations where you have first hand experience and knowledge of the folks behind the organization, as well as meeting all the criteria set forth in “Leap’s” post, i.e. you have seen their annual reports/accounting, or they are posted on their web sites. Once this list is finished, then Bert can set these all up under his proposed “Bali Charity Review.”
Here are three I can strongly recommend, but of course, there are many, many more:
The Helen Flavel Foundation
http://www.helenflavelfoundation.org/
The Rotary Club of Bali Ubud
http://www.rotaryubud.org/
Bali Hati
http://www.balihati.org/
Adele
To "a leap of faith"
You wrote the following and..
"for goodness sake if you are going to support a charity in Bali or anywhere in the developing world how about giving your money to organisations that meet the needs of children before you give to yet another animal charity."
I just want to clarify that the Foundation that duped me told me it's primary objective was about making the poorer village childrens life better, with schooling, medical aide, food and clothing. Being a mother of 5 children myself, this is why I found myself drawn to this foundation in particular. It is sad because I sat my children down when I told them I had saved this money and I asked all my five children what we should do with it. The amazing thing was they all agreed to give it to charity, no arguing for x-box or playstaion games it was because my children wanted to help other children just like me. And to have that money (that could of supported my own children & others) used for greed makes me sick. I am a single mother of 5 children, I am not wealthy, I don't have support of any of my ex-husbands financial aide, I don't sit on a nest egg that I got from a huge divorce payout, I work and provide enough for all of us to get by on. I also do charity work here in Aus for Lifeline a suicide help phone line. I am not saying these things to blow my own trumpet but to let you know what kind of person I am. I do know that somewhere, sometime Karma will visit her doorstep one day and she will regret the ugly things that she has done in her lifetime or the next one.
orang gila
Re: RE: Possible Charity Fraud
Charities, it's always hard to be really sure just where your $$'s are going to end up.
After Bomb 2002, Wife & I became involved in a Charity by default, things just got out of hand, and we ended up having money's being sent to us, which was a bit scary, worried about having to be completely transparent.
We decided never to ask for donations, preferring to suggest to potential donors / sponsors that they purchase product rather than hand over cash.
This way, we don't have to stress about accountability, the widows don't expect handouts and their self esteem is raised because they are being productive.
In brief, we asked the donors / sponsors if we could utilise the funds to set up what we hoped would be a life long business for a small group of 2002 bomb widows. This project is now AdoptA Co-Op (
http://www.adopta.info ) a garment factory completly controlled the the widows themselves.
Wife & I remain Mum & Dad, and have no control over the operation, apart from setting up a retail outlet for the ladies at Candi Kuning market.
We are so happy that what was once a charity is now a small enterprise.
Cheers
Adele
Dear orang gila,
that's just awesome what you have done for these poor women who became widows out of such tragic circumstances. Good for you! I support a local balinese family of three, and was able to buy a couple of sewing machines and material etc, so they now sell garments out of a retail outlet and markets etc and at hotels. from small things big things can grow.
Roy
Charity in Bali is always a tough choice and “Orang” has made a decisive turn about in how charity in Bali is most often effectively handled.
I think that all of us, the regulars to Bali, or the ones who make Bali home have at one time or another been disappointed with what we thought was a charitable contribution.
Much as successful living on Bali is not easy, it is also not easy to be assured that our contributions are really making a positive impact on this place that we all so love.
With that said, I am going to make some comments that may upset some folks, but I’m going to make them anyway, if only because I have been there, done it, and learned later of my own mistakes that I would dearly love to see others avoid.
-Sponsoring a family in Bali.
Wosh! That is number one on my list of what NOT to do! I understand how this all happens, but this is number one on my list of bogus charity in Bali. This happens a lot with newly arrived tourists, driven to explore Bali, and most often not willing or able to listen to the sound advice they have read about, or heard.
I’m not being critical, but rather, I’m being honest. It is an undeniable fact that once here in Bali, all visitors, especially first timers, or other “rookies” get caught in the trap of “knowing Bali” most likely due to the fact that they met...Wayan, Made, Nyoman, Ketut....on and on.
I honestly cannot explain why it is that so many first timers to Bali end up completely trusting what were total strangers to them just a few days ago. While I have written in the past about the “intoxication of Bali” this blind faith still blows my mind.
It seems like there is nothing like a visit to a family compound, and endearing comments, that will so steadfastly adhere a tourist to a Balinese family...to the extent that their pocketbooks become opened.
For most Balinese, who retain their dignity and pride, there is no “open season” on the Tamu. For others, there is, and one has to keep their senses on full gear, or succumb to a following recognition that you’ve been “had.”
There are NO long term expats on Bali who would disagree with what I just wrote. Moreover there are VERY few that haven’t learned this the hard way.
InAdelaide
I back up Robs post, anyone who lives in Bali or comes here regularly will learn a lesson, for me it was only $300 that I sent to a girl that I thought i was helping with her education. Its just marketing, if you ask 100 bule for help a % will help and thats what they do...if only 3 give out of 100.....$900 ..easy way to make a living. I never give now if people ask , I just explain I have 3 grown up kids in Australia I need help first...I wont even give money to the kids begging on the streets of Kuta , I would prefer to buy some aqua for the guys I see pulling the rubbish carts around in the mornings they have a hard life . There is however a guy that I see sometimes dragging himself along on crutches, his legs are bent like willow trees , I dont kow his history but I have given him 50,000 rp. If I can afford to help someone I will.
Adele
So what should I do Roy! I know perhaps I have been over taken by the magic that is Bali, but should I just stop the support? It is quiet possible they get support from others but I am not sure and I have fallen in love with this family and would feel very bad just cutting off my help. The reason I chose to buy sewing machines etc and not just hand over money was so they could become self employed and independant and not just rely on handouts from me. Now I am confused as to what to do?
