Shadrach
harryopal wrote
Living in the suburbs in Australia away from a main road is like living in a cemetery. Few people walk around and none of the roaming, street vendors, warungs or tiny business activities which are part of life in most Asian countries. And in the evening after the sun goes down there is nothing to compare to the liveliness of markets and bright lights opening up in all kinds of places. There is transformation in some cities such as London where the sheer number of immigrants has seen some of that variety and spark but generally, the suburbs of western cities, as I say, are like cemeteries.
That's because they were designed to be dead zones. It's the same in Amerika. No parks, everyone jealous of each other, no community helping each other with a community garden. The west has been designed this way by the rich and greedy a..holes that control the goverments, city planning, roads, all you hear from the local and federal governments is just a bunch of bullshit because they are filling their pockets from the corrupt crperations that only want to pilfer all the resources for greed now. Sad because there is no love for future generations to come. Humans are the worse virus on this planet. The poor and uneducated breed like rabbits and make more and more stupid people to work like slaves for the rich. I see now the rent is getting so high that even doctors have to sleeo in homless camps. Unbelievable! Many of the homeless are not drugs addicts, just people that have been pushed to the limits by greedy landlords. I say get out of the cities and move to the country and grow your own community and gardens. Peace
Fred2
<QUOTE author="Markit"><s>[quote=Markit]</s>
Dude the "states" is America = same size as Oz, therefore "They flew in from the states" aint the same thing.
If I drive for 3 days from LA I'm fecking still in LA.
<e>[/quote]</e></QUOTE>
Last time I was in LA it only took 3 days to drive to Texas and I'm a tourist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_pw8duzGUg
Markit
<QUOTE author="Fred2"><s>[quote=Fred2]</s>
Last time I was in LA it only took 3 days to drive to Texas and I'm a tourist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_pw8duzGUg
<e>[/quote]</e></QUOTE>
Depends on traffic, but "the states" ain't Israel is it, although some in the US gov might disagree.
harryopal
Markit wrote
I will never understand how a country the size of Oz with that low a population can have anything like high rents or house prices. FFS it has the 2nd lowest population per land size of all counties on Earth, only behind Mongolia.
As Balifrog says, vast areas uninhabitable areas. Actually reckoned at about 90%. The coastal areas mostly towards the south have about 80% of the population with 70% of the population living in the capital cities. Theoretically there is still penty of room for housing but historically, since first European settlement, the useful land was seen as valuable and allotted by the rulers to the monied members of the community. Profit opportunites in development has driven most of the housing constructions. Various governments have set up housing and building programs but always lagging well behind the overall needs. Conservative governments allowed people with extra wealth to get major tax concessions buying up houses and Since the 1980's this has led to enormous increases in the value of houses and rents. Labor governments have been too frightened of losing the middle class vote if they removed tax advantages although the relatively new, Federal Labor government has been considering taxes for mutliple home ownership. Meanwhile, inflation rates across the spectrum of the cost of living and ever increasing rental costs has led to a surge in homelessness and people being unable to afford the standard of accommodation to which they became accustomed. There is an ongoing economic crisis which governments have yet to really appreciate just how serious this has become and will continue to hammer more and more people into poverty.
Please compare the fertility of Israel with Australian areas having the same levels of rainfall
Comparing the fertility of Israel with specific areas in Australia that have similar levels of rainfall requires considering various factors. Fertility in agriculture depends on more than just rainfall, including soil quality, temperature, irrigation practices, and crop selection. However, I can provide you with a general overview of the agricultural situations in Israel and some regions in Australia with comparable rainfall levels.
[LIST=1]
[*]Israel: Israel is known for its advanced agricultural practices and innovative technologies that allow it to thrive despite limited water resources. Although Israel has a predominantly arid or semi-arid climate, it has successfully transformed large areas of desert into productive farmland through extensive irrigation and water management systems. The country relies on advanced drip irrigation techniques, desalination of seawater, and wastewater treatment for agricultural purposes. These practices have enabled Israel to grow a wide range of crops, including fruits, vegetables, and flowers, and become a major exporter of agricultural products.
[*]Australia: Australia is a vast country with diverse climates, and rainfall patterns can vary significantly between different regions. While there are arid areas, there are also regions that receive sufficient rainfall for agriculture. Here are a couple of examples of Australian areas that experience similar levels of rainfall to some parts of Israel:
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*]Margaret River region, Western Australia: The Margaret River region in Western Australia has a Mediterranean climate, similar to parts of Israel. It receives around 800-1,000 millimeters of rainfall annually, which is comparable to some areas in Israel. This region is known for its vineyards and wine production, as well as other crops such as olives, fruits, and vegetables.
[*]Adelaide Hills, South Australia: The Adelaide Hills region has a climate classified as Mediterranean, with rainfall averaging around 600-800 millimeters per year. It experiences wet winters and warm, dry summers, which are characteristic of Mediterranean climates. Agriculture in this region includes vineyards, orchards, and vegetable farming.
[/LIST]
It's important to note that even though these Australian regions may receive similar levels of rainfall, the specific agricultural practices, soil conditions, and crop varieties may differ from those in Israel. Each region has its own unique characteristics and challenges when it comes to fertility and agricultural productivity.
Overall, while Israel has developed advanced techniques to overcome its water scarcity and has become highly productive in agriculture, Australia also has regions with comparable rainfall levels that support successful agricultural activities. However, the fertility and productivity of specific crops would depend on various local factors beyond rainfall alone.
Markit
It gets better (I was right :) ) I then asked to compare only the arid parts of each country.
Certainly! When comparing the arid areas of Israel with similar regions in Australia, such as the Outback or parts of the Great Sandy Desert, there are several factors to consider:
[LIST=1]
[*]Rainfall patterns: Both Israel and arid regions of Australia experience low and erratic rainfall. Israel's Negev Desert, for example, receives an average annual rainfall of around 100-200 millimeters. Similarly, many parts of the Australian Outback receive less than 250 millimeters of rainfall per year.
[*]Water management: Israel has developed advanced water management techniques to cope with its arid conditions. These include drip irrigation, desalination, and wastewater recycling. These practices allow for efficient water use and enable agricultural production even in areas with limited rainfall. In contrast, arid regions of Australia often face water scarcity and rely on water conservation methods, such as water catchment systems or underground water sources, for agricultural purposes.
[*]Crop selection: In Israel's arid areas, crop selection is crucial for optimizing agricultural productivity. Certain crops, such as drought-tolerant varieties of fruits, vegetables, and grains, are cultivated in these regions. Some examples include dates, olives, citrus fruits, and various desert-adapted crops. Similarly, in Australia's arid regions, farmers often focus on drought-tolerant crops, such as sorghum, chickpeas, and native Australian bush foods.
[*]Grazing and livestock: In both Israel and arid regions of Australia, livestock grazing is practiced, although the specific types of livestock may differ. In Israel, sheep and goats are commonly raised in the arid regions, while in Australia, cattle and sheep farming are more prevalent.
[/LIST]
It is worth noting that Israel has invested significantly in research and development to optimize agricultural practices in arid environments, which has led to high productivity and agricultural innovation. Australia, on the other hand, has vast arid regions with varying levels of agricultural development and productivity.
Overall, while both Israel and arid areas of Australia face similar challenges in terms of low rainfall and aridity, Israel's advanced agricultural techniques and research have enabled it to achieve greater agricultural productivity in its arid regions compared to some arid regions in Australia.
harryopal
Never been to Israel but am nonplussed at the term "Commonwealth of Australia." I used to naively think that it meant us common people had a share in the wealth of Australia. There was an attempt to put that into practice during the Whitlam era but by and large governments have always been reluctant to interfere with any programs that might upset the entrenched wealthy. While we nourish mythologies about who we are, the bronzed daring Aussies, successive governments have lacked the will power and preparedness to invest in on going innovations. There is the massive Snowy Mountains Hydro project and we had the wonderful CSRIO research body doing great things but increasingly funding is based on development of immediately profitable commercial programs. Forget the future. Traditionally we are mean minded and find it hard to spend money on the kind of long term research activities such as you mentioned are taking place in Israel. There are of course many individual innovative things happening across this vast country but we have lacked the collective imagination to commit funds in a way that might produce the outcomes apparently achieved by Israel. Easier to commit to billions of dollars on a nuclear submarine program. Ahh well, as Ned Kelly the bushranger said before they hanged him, "Such is life."
[ATTACH type="full" alt="1686017567548.png"]3724[/ATTACH]
Shadrach
harryopal wrote
Never been to Israel but am nonplussed at the term "Commonwealth of Australia." I used to naively think that it meant us common people had a share in the wealth of Australia. There was an attempt to put that into practice during the Whitlam era but by and large governments have always been reluctant to interfere with any programs that might upset the entrenched wealthy. While we nourish mythologies about who we are, the bronzed daring Aussies, successive governments have lacked the will power and preparedness to invest in on going innovations. There is the massive Snowy Mountains Hydro project and we had the wonderful CSRIO research body doing great things but increasingly funding is based on development of immediately profitable commercial programs. Forget the future. Traditionally we are mean minded and find it hard to spend money on the kind of long term research activities such as you mentioned are taking place in Israel. There are of course many individual innovative things happening across this vast country but we have lacked the collective imagination to commit funds in a way that might produce the outcomes apparently achieved by Israel. Easier to commit to billions of dollars on a nuclear submarine program. Ahh well, as Ned Kelly the bushranger said before they hanged him, "Such is life."
[ATTACH=full]3724[/ATTACH]
Hi Harryopal, it is very interesting your story of Australia is so similar to that of the states. What a sad reality when you see these barbarians still wanting to use Nuclear power, especially for a war machine! I don't trust it and never will. It is obvious we the common people have no control of the government controlled by the rich. The common nurse or mechanic, etc. pays more in taxes than the millionaires. If we all just refused to pay taxes and the governments wages, they would panic and cry like babies, before they would send in the military to force us too. But don't forget we outnumber them by millions. They have figured out sufficient ways to control us with fear, social media, unhealthy food, poorly designed neighborhoods, all for the purpose of mind control. It seems to be working very well, and we just just become more stupid by the day. Oh and by the way If the US stopped giving Israel millions of dollars every year things might be different. Why to they always call the Israels a defense force and the Palestinian people terrorist? Why don't they give them both and equal share? It shows how powerful they control Hollywood and the government.
harryopal
I bought a house in Port Melbourne in 1982 for $38,000. (Sold it many years ago ) The $ value converted into $ today would be $95,000 but that house today would cost just under $2 million to buy. Greed prevails, encouraged by conservative governments and not curtailed by passive Labor governments. The country is sliding into recession and, as usually occurs in times of crisis, the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. The Australian dream of owning your own home will, for the vast majority, remain just that..... a dream.
Shadrach
Andy Capp wrote
Shortage of water is usually quoted as the major constraint and certainly the area with below say 300mm rainfall is vast. But conversely the area with a moderate 600-1000mm is also substantially larger than the area in this range in UK which houses 90% of our 70m
Obviously though this is not the whole story, with soil quality and climate important factors.
The comparison with Israel is instructive, where both populated and cropping areas receive a fraction of the rainfall similar areas of Australia enjoy. But who recycle domestically and manage farming far more effectively
Australia is in part a prisoner of its demographic history. Across the other continents the potentially liveable land has been progressively tamed over thousands of years and is now quite adapted to supporting human life and endeavour. A good illustration is Australia virtual lack of attractive secondary centres concentrating all activity and population in now over crowded state capitals.
Other developed countries are now seeing steady dispersion away, not to remote areas but to more attractive old established towns and cities within the region with the capitals focusing on government, high finance/legal, opera houses! and tourism.
Australia not having these, is following a more typically Asian pattern of the magnetic mega city. Jakarta now 30 - 40m having swallowed it's neighbouring conurbations.
Housing seems to be an increasing expense and issue everywhere. The sort of new house a young family might aspire to in an outer Sydney/Melbourne suburb is probably a little cheaper than typical across SE England generally, while much cheaper than one say an hours train commute from London. And the house will be bigger (but worse built) While salaries are higher. Away from big city commute zones housing in Australia still seems cheap. Canada US & most West Europe have similar high housing costs
Governments have not helped anywhere with ever changing policies designed to favour this group of voters or that. What we all need is more houses built, anything else is merely rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic
It seems you have forgotten that the first Europeans to come there were mostly criminals and religiously persecuted people. They did the same thing as the ones that came to America. They did everything possible to wipe out the native culture and stole all the best land. What compensation have they gotten. Shoved to the worst land around while the white people live on all the best land and do their best to pollute it. The Conservative government in both countries give the rich tax breaks to the point that an average nurse, mechanic, carpenter, restaurant worker pays more in taxes. This is
outrageous.. all the government does is drag on and on, and get payed way to much money for nothing good for the land, animals, poor people. They are criminals and should be treated as such. If everyone stopped paying taxes they would have to change their policies to really work for the common person. It's time for everyone to wake up and stop being sheep!
Andy Capp
harryopal wrote
As Balifrog says, vast areas uninhabitable areas. Actually reckoned at about 90%. The coastal areas mostly towards the south have about 80% of the population with 70% of the population living in the capital cities. Theoretically there is still penty of room for housing but historically, since first European settlement, the useful land was seen as valuable and allotted by the rulers to the monied members of the community. Profit opportunites in development has driven most of the housing constructions. Various governments have set up housing and building programs but always lagging well behind the overall needs. Conservative governments allowed people with extra wealth to get major tax concessions buying up houses and Since the 1980's this has led to enormous increases in the value of houses and rents. Labor governments have been too frightened of losing the middle class vote if they removed tax advantages although the relatively new, Federal Labor government has been considering taxes for mutliple home ownership. Meanwhile, inflation rates across the spectrum of the cost of living and ever increasing rental costs has led to a surge in homelessness and people being unable to afford the standard of accommodation to which they became accustomed. There is an ongoing economic crisis which governments have yet to really appreciate just how serious this has become and will continue to hammer more and more people into poverty.
[ATTACH=full]3723[/ATTACH]
Shortage of water is usually quoted as the major constraint and certainly the area with below say 300mm rainfall is vast. But conversely the area with a moderate 600-1000mm is also substantially larger than the area in this range in UK which houses 90% of our 70m
Obviously though this is not the whole story, with soil quality and climate important factors.
The comparison with Israel is instructive, where both populated and cropping areas receive a fraction of the rainfall similar areas of Australia enjoy. But who recycle domestically and manage farming far more effectively
Australia is in part a prisoner of its demographic history. Across the other continents the potentially liveable land has been progressively tamed over thousands of years and is now quite adapted to supporting human life and endeavour. A good illustration is Australia virtual lack of attractive secondary centres concentrating all activity and population in now over crowded state capitals.
Other developed countries are now seeing steady dispersion away, not to remote areas but to more attractive old established towns and cities within the region with the capitals focusing on government, high finance/legal, opera houses! and tourism.
Australia not having these, is following a more typically Asian pattern of the magnetic mega city. Jakarta now 30 - 40m having swallowed it's neighbouring conurbations.
Housing seems to be an increasing expense and issue everywhere. The sort of new house a young family might aspire to in an outer Sydney/Melbourne suburb is probably a little cheaper than typical across SE England generally, while much cheaper than one say an hours train commute from London. And the house will be bigger (but worse built) While salaries are higher. Away from big city commute zones housing in Australia still seems cheap. Canada US & most West Europe have similar high housing costs
Governments have not helped anywhere with ever changing policies designed to favour this group of voters or that. What we all need is more houses built, anything else is merely rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic
hadodi
I am stunned! What stupid remarks on a serious matter.
Markit
hadodi wrote
I am stunned! What stupid remarks on a serious matter.
Well then shed some intelligence on us OH WISE ONE... After you've woken up.
Markit
People have been building houses, cities, towns, shops, golf courses, etc for tens of thousands of years so it aint nuthin new now is it?
All the daft arguments against building houses and dropping the rents and house prices through availability are down to one thing - greed.
America and Britain built houses enough when and where they needed them quickly enough after WW2.
The only thing holding them back is greed from old assholes like us who are sitting on a property that has risen in value probably 10 or 20 times since we bought it but we won't let our govs build for our own kids and grandkids or our houses might fall a bit in value - go figure.
Let AI run the show and I'm sure it will go much better than it is now.
ChatGBT if you're listing please come get me I'm ready...
Andy Capp
Markit wrote
People have been building houses, cities, towns, shops, golf courses, etc for tens of thousands of years so it aint nuthin new now is it?
All the daft arguments against building houses and dropping the rents and house prices through availability are down to one thing - greed.
America and Britain built houses enough when and where they needed them quickly enough after WW2.
The only thing holding them back is greed from old assholes like us who are sitting on a property that has risen in value probably 10 or 20 times since we bought it but we won't let our govs build for our own kids and grandkids or our houses might fall a bit in value - go figure.
Let AI run the show and I'm sure it will go much better than it is now.
ChatGBT if you're listing please come get me I'm ready...
Since I bought my first house. House prices in SE UK gone up 40x. Salaries about 25x.Beer and petrol (only things I can remember) also about 25x. Clothes, fresh food appliances airfares, up far less. Availability where needed is as big a constraint as pure price.
Not sure at an individual level it's greed although the illusion of rising prices always pleases voters, but those who promote fear that any development erodes local quality of life seem to win the argument over necessity and the general good.
Andy Capp
harryopal wrote
I bought a house in Port Melbourne in 1982 for $38,000. (Sold it many years ago ) The $ value converted into $ today would be $95,000 but that house today would cost just under $2 million to buy. Greed prevails, encouraged by conservative governments and not curtailed by passive Labor governments. The country is sliding into recession and, as usually occurs in times of crisis, the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. The Australian dream of owning your own home will, for the vast majority, remain just that..... a dream.
The comparison you need is a bog standard new house on a new development in the suburbs with similar in a new suburb today. Otherwise not comparing like with like. Yr ratio of 50x not out of line with what might see for say an apartment in Kensington or Chelsea over same period.
The big difference is in UK plenty of professional jobs away from London in attractive towns where house inflation has been lower. Houses here though are then more expensive than they are a similar distance from Melbourne or Sydney.
