Visa / Car ownership

tel522

the ktp is useful and in fact if you have a wni sponsored kitap you must have a ktp or you will be liable to a fine at the catalan cipil.not forgetting you need a ktp for a 5 year sim.

ronb

The Bali Government decided to restrict car ownership in Bali to only those that were Bali residents so decreed only Bali KTP holders could purchase a new vehicle. There was no intent to restrict ownership of new cars to Kitas/Kitap holders....but most foreigners do not apply for a KTP (Orang Asing)...which is available.Tel522 has indicated he/she has a KTP and was thus able to buy a new car. I'm not sure the same restriction applies to buying new motorcycles/scooters.[/QUOTE]You have to be on a KK to get a KTP. For those with Indonesian spouses, this happens I guess. For expats on retirement visas there is nothing to indicate which family you could join. I am currently towards the end of the process to get an unlimited KITAP. One step seemed to make it necessary to get a KTP. I currently have a temporary short-term paper one, but when the KITAP comes through I should then get the regular 5-year plastic thing. But this needed a KK, and the Gianyar government guy we were dealing with rang my landlord (the guy who owns the property we are leasing long-term) and got his permission for me to be on their KK.As I have already said, I think the Bali government wants the KK when you are buying a car, but a KTP directly links to a KK (many digits of the KTP number come from the KK number). So theoretically I could now own a car BUT I think it would increase the tax my head of family pays on his car - so maybe not a good idea.

tel522

[MENTION=1522]ronb[/MENTION] I am currently towards the end of the process to get an unlimited KITAPif you get your unlimited kitap the ktp will follow ie unlimited

ronb

tel522

for your kitap , ie 5 year = 5 year ktp , unlimited kitap = unlimited ktp

Fred2

My name is the only one on my KK, I think they start us off at the top and if we have children they would be listed on our KK.

davita

I was just guessing the KTP could be 5 year- I guess I will find out in the coming weeks. Just did the finger printing in Renon yesterday. How many records of my fingerprints do Immigrasi now have I wonder?[/QUOTE]Typically the RI Gov't never thinks of all the parameters when making law and rules then has to do a flip-flop when they find they didn't do due diligence. The same with the dilemma of KK and KTP for retirement visa holders...I think they just lumped it in with the laws pertaining to a spousal visa, which would have family connections (i.e. KK),RonB...I also wonder why so many fingerprints...I thought they were just showing off their equipment but last time the reader was stuck together with duct tape...so I doubt that was correct. After reading "Snowing in Bali" I assume some come to Bali with fingers filed to make fingerprints indiscernable...just a thought. The great train robbers did that....I read they stuck their fingers in acid to avoid detection at borders.

odez999

Is this some sort of new rule for KTP for "bule" spouse who are on KITAs or KITAP ? No one told me when I was making KITAs last year that it was a must !?Actually I just remembered in 2014 when I applied first time for KITAS in Renon (Denpasar) ... her KK with family members was sufficient ! In 2015 when I needed to extend my KITAS for 1year gain ... that same KK was not enough/valid she had to made KK with only her name !Now in 2016 for KITAS or KITAP should I need to be on that KK as well !? And how or where is that done (with what papers I should be added to KK) !?Every year they change rules . I do not understand how these so called Investors invest in here !? It is impossible to stay legit all the time !We are almost 3 years in marriage. I made 2 KITAS (2014 & 2015) I am still on KITAS (by the October 2016) Am I able to apply for KITAP right now or KITAS again is my only option !?

davita

tel522

[MENTION=10576]odez999[/MENTION] when you have kitap , then you must have a ktp application in at the catalan cipil or they can fine you , but its a useful doc , as davita said the full process is on living in indonesia forum.

odez999

Yea but does my name has to be on Karta Keluarga next to my spouse already or you get ability to be added to KK after you get KITAP (5y stay permit ??) ??And ... I consider worth mentioning:[B]Who can apply for an ITAP? (from expat.or.id)[/B]Indonesian Law is, in fact, quite clear. But as in many cases in Indonesia, this is more a problem of getting the right text of law with all of its amendments to clearly understand who can apply for to an ITAP. [B][U]Once you get the right context[/U][/B], everything becomes very clear and the only remaining difficulty is to explain the law to the ones who are supposed to know it: the Immigration officials, who in many cases seemingly ignore the law. Once you get past the lower echelons, things are much smoother, because at the higher levels (i.e., KanWil or DitJen), they know the law regarding ITAP issuance.Concerning ITAP, here are the two main articles of Law No. 6 of 2011 on Immigration that you need to keep in mind:[I][B]1. Pasal 54 / Article 54[/B][/I][COLOR="#FF8C00"][I](1) Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagai rohaniwan, pekerja, investor, dan lanjut usia;b. keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;c. suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; dand. Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia dan eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda Republik Indonesia. [/I][I]*A Permanent Residence Permit may be given to:1) a foreign national who holds a Temporary Residence Permit as a religious cleric/missionary, expatriate worker, investor, or retiree;2) a member of a mixed marriage family;3) the husband, wife, and/or child of a foreign national who holds a Permanent Residence Permit; and4) a foreign national who is a former Indonesian citizen or held dual citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia and another country.[/I][/COLOR]and[B]2. Pasal 60 / Article 60[/B][COLOR="#FF8C00"][I](1) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf a diberikan setelah pemohon tinggal menetap selama 3 (tiga) tahun berturut-turut dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada Pemerintah Republik Indonesia.[/I][I]*For an applicant as intended in Article 54 paragraph (1) letter a, the Permanent Residence Permit is issued after the applicant has stayed for 3 (three) years consecutively and signed a Statement of Integration to the Government of the Republic of Indonesia.[/I][/COLOR]Basically, Article 60 means that an [U]ITAS can be transformed to an ITAP[/U] and that this transformation of status can be given after a demand of the foreigner with the condition that he/she has already stayed a [U]minimum of three full successive years[/U] in Indonesia since the date that his/her ITAS has been issued.[B]Pasal 59 / Article 59 - regarding extensions[/B][COLOR="#FF0000"](Article/Pasal 59 on Indonesian missing !!!)[/COLOR][COLOR="#FF8C00"][I](1)A Permanent Residence Permit is issued for a period of 5 (five) years and may be extended for an unlimited period insofar as the permit has not been cancelled.(2)The holder of a Permanent Residence Permit for an unlimited period as intended in paragraph (1) must report to an Immigration Office every 5 (five) years and is not subject to a fee.[/I][/COLOR]This is the article of law which lists the category of ITAS holder that could be entitled to be issued an ITAP. They are:a. investorsb. rare foreign expertsc. top foreign manager of a companyd. foreign churchmen with religious duties[COLOR="#00FF00"][B]e.[/B][/COLOR] foreign spouse joining an Indonesian husband or wife more infof. legitimate child who holds a foreign passport joining an Indonesian parentg. foreign spouse of a foreigner holding an ITAPh. legitimate unmarried foreign child (under 18 years old) joining a foreign father/mother who is an ITAP holder.i. Former Indonesian willing to regain Indonesian citizenship as per Citizenship law number 12/2006j. Retired foreignerHowever, [U]belonging to one of the above categories may not be enough[/U]. If you read [U][B][U]point (3)[/U] [COLOR="#FF0000"](I can not find this "point 3" above, probably is missing Pasal/Article 59 !!??)[/COLOR], it says that the change of status (from ITAS to ITAP) must consider the benefits that this foreigner brings to the nation in terms of national development and must consider the human aspects.[/B][/U] This is for the very least highly subjective, and apart for the one belonging to the category [COLOR="#00FF00"][COLOR="#00FF00"][B]e.)[/B][/COLOR][/COLOR], f.), g.), h.) and i.) it may well remain a demand without automatic approbation.If your change of status is accepted, you will receive an ITAP which allows you to remain in Indonesia for five years - which may be worth all the paperwork hassles.[/QUOTE]This point 3 refers on: Pasal 59 / Article 59 - regarding extensionsBut seems like somethig is missing.They are mentioning "it says that the change of status (from ITAS to ITAP) must consider the benefits that this foreigner brings to the nation in terms of national developmen..." But I can not see anywhere in Indonesia or English where something like that is stated !!??But this is quite significan paragraph. If you asking me it should be bolded. It is much more important to show it that what kind of documents are required by them for issuing it (since that changes on annual basis) !So in the name of "getting the right context" (and right law) could someone explain it to me !?

tel522

I would suggest you look at living in indonesia forum , where all your questions will be answered , your name must be on kartu keluarga before you can progress to ktp.

davita

And ... I consider worth mentioning:[B]Who can apply for an ITAP? (from expat.or.id)[/B]This point 3 refers on: Pasal 59 / Article 59 - regarding extensionsBut seems like somethig is missing.They are mentioning "it says that the change of status (from ITAS to ITAP) must consider the benefits that this foreigner brings to the nation in terms of national developmen..." But I can not see anywhere in Indonesia or English where something like that is stated !!??But this is quite significan paragraph. If you asking me it should be bolded. It is much more important to show it that what kind of documents are required by them for issuing it (since that changes on annual basis) !So in the name of "getting the right context" (and right law) could someone explain it to me !?[/QUOTE]It should be noted that the advice in (expat.or.id) ref. is given by volunteers, and some professionals, but only to [B]assist [/B]expats intending to live in Indonesia, therefore, some information may be amiss. If a legal explanation is necessary a lawyer should be retained.With regard to the question 'conditions for extensions re: benefits a foreigner brings to Indonesia'..... like much in Indonesian rules....it doesn't appear to be defined. My agent, who processed my retirement Kitap said, or sounded like..."furgetabootit".

tel522

yap your right it is voluntary , but with the help of living in indonesia forum and perca I did every doc to kitap and ktp .

odez999

With regard to the question 'conditions for extensions re: benefits a foreigner brings to Indonesia'..... like much in Indonesian rules....it doesn't appear to be defined. My agent, who processed my retirement Kitap said, or sounded like..."furgetabootit".[/QUOTE]Yea I know that. But from legal side and your rights you are at their "mercy" .. and they are being "merciful". I just wanted to clear that. Do not get me wrong even many west countries is the same.I just wanted to cleared context of it all. Coz many people are being mislead with their rights in this country ...when they marry Indoonesian citizen.I find many pasals/laws in many segments of legislative which basically give them "right" to interpret it as they wish .. and people should have in mind that they can play that card anytime against any individual. People should have in mind (especially foreigners) that their rights are equal to 0. Start with that premises, which in many instances aint too far from truth. And I asked in here rather than on indonesia expat coz implementation of law (even law itself sometimes) differs from island to island. Different papers Indonesian would need to provide to get passport in Denpasar different in Surabaya. You can imagine then how is it for foreigner.It is all quite complicated and messy. Just like this KK (family tree paper) and taxation car ownership tied to it an potentional mess it could bring (and it is already bringing).Soon there will be a booklet "How to own a car in Indonesia" ... so simple that we needed to write explanatory book about it.It is good to write in here about it coz people coming in here asking for advices, thoughts upon subject from time to time ... General percepcion among expats livin in Bali about some topics ... I mean that is what is my point of interest as well. I would like to know facts and figures .. and thoughts upon subject from various people.Help each other (locals included) that is the whole point ... right ? Since those clerks who are paid to do to so aint doing their job.Whenever I need to get informed with some subject (trivial as what papers are needed for this or that) it requires at least 3 or 4 visits to get the checklist of papers neccesary needed right ! Even then, not even year after I am not sure that same "rules" will apply. :icon_wink: ..same in my own country thou ...:tongue:

Markit

tel522

hey mr markit , I was trying to help odez , I thought my english was pretty fair , maybe im the crazy one ha ha

odez999

I haveta say I understand sweet **** all here. Perhaps am stupid/drunk/crazy (choose) but if you want to add to the sum of human knowledge as we here all do(?) then Odez23342 and Tel4820007909 can you possibly condense your post down where someone like me that is stupid/drunk/crazy (choose)has a hope of understanding what you are saying?[/QUOTE]Nothing "much" ... just same old same old .. far from simple in Indoensia ... perfect mixture of fu*kup laws (intentional and unintentional) to get you on the edge of sanity by following all this laws and its flaws ... (car ownership included)

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