Natasha
I have a question for those on a spouse sponsored KITAP/KITAS - what happens if your spouse dies before you? I know this is a morbid question, but what happens in such a situation? Does the visa become invalid? Can another family member sponsor you for KITAP? Can your child who has Indonesian citizenship sponsor you for KITAP, even if they aren't an adult? Or do you have to get on SOSBUD for the rest of your life to stay in Indonesia? I'd be interested what others on spouse sponsored KITAP plan to do in such a situation, and what the options are (if any?). My husband and I are young and healthy, but it's important to think these things through for the future.
Fred2
good question, I think there is a 10 year rule, after that you no longer need a sponsor. l will have a look and repost.
davita
I have a question for those on a spouse sponsored KITAP/KITAS - what happens if your spouse dies before you? I know this is a morbid question, but what happens in such a situation? Does the visa become invalid? Can another family member sponsor you for KITAP? Can your child who has Indonesian citizenship sponsor you for KITAP, even if they aren't an adult? Or do you have to get on SOSBUD for the rest of your life to stay in Indonesia? I'd be interested what others on spouse sponsored KITAP plan to do in such a situation, and what the options are (if any?). My husband and I are young and healthy, but it's important to think these things through for the future.[/QUOTE]This situation actually happened a couple of years ago and made the news. Poor old guy just lost his WNI wife and was facing deportation. He was given some ministerial right to remain while they converted his Spousal Kitap to a Retirement Kitap....but I have no clue if this situation has been resolved by the Gov't. for future instances. I'm on a Retirement Visa and so is my wife...if I die before her (I'm 78+ and she's 57)......she can still stay.Edit: just read Fred2 but believe that only refers to divorce.
Natasha
This situation actually happened a couple of years ago and made the news. Poor old guy just lost his WNI wife and was facing deportation. He was given some ministerial right to remain while they converted his Spousal Kitap to a Retirement Kitap....but I have no clue if this situation has been resolved by the Gov't. for future instances. I'm on a Retirement Visa and so is my wife...if I die before her (I'm 78+ and she's 57)......she can still stay.Edit: just read Fred2 but believe that only refers to divorce.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your reply Davita. What a nightmare, I had a feeling this would be the situation. My concern is my husband and I growing old here where we build a life here, and what happens if I'm 90 and he suddenly dies? Technically I'd be forced to sell our home within a year, and be sent back to Canada. That kind of thing is easier when you're young, but imagine if your really old and you're told after your life partner dies that you've got to go, and get rid of your home and move across the world? I'm dizzy just thinking about it!!
Natasha
good question, I think there is a 10 year rule, after that you no longer need a sponsor. l will have a look and repost.[/QUOTE]Please do let us know. I'm happy I brought this up.
tel522
there has been a discussion about this very subject on a tandem forum, living in indonesia , but there seems to be differences of opinion , im on a spouse sponsored kitap, I understood after 10 years married ,divorce or death of the sponsor , would not affect the kitap ie stay for life , but during the discussion there was some differing views .I would appreciate some clarification also
Fred2
UU nomor 6 tahun 2011Article 59(1) Permanent Stay Permit shall be provided for theperiod of 5 (five) years and can be renewed for[U][B]indefinite period [/B][/U]to the extent that his/her permitis not cancelled.(2) Holder of Permanent Stay Permit for indefiniteperiod as contemplated in paragraph (1) must reportto the Immigration Office every 5 (five) years andfree of charge.g. Marital breakup of the Foreigner who is legallymarried to an Indonesian citizen due to divorceand/or upon court verdict, unless such marriage[B][U]has been ten (10) years old or more[/U][/B].After 10 years on a Kitap happy days, Article 60 explains everything ,
Natasha
Two questions:(2) Holder of Permanent Stay Permit for indefiniteperiod as contemplated in paragraph (1) must reportto the Immigration Office every 5 (five) years and[B]free of charge.[/B][/QUOTE]"free of charge" - does that mean when I renew my KITAP every 5 years it's free, there's no immigration fees?Marital breakup of the Foreigner who is legallymarried to an Indonesian citizen due to divorceand/or upon court verdict, [B]unless such marriagehas been ten (10) years old or more.[/B]After 10 years on a Kitap happy days, Article 60 explains everything ,[/QUOTE]Does that mean 10 years of marriage or 10 years on KITAP (I was on KITAS first few years of marriage, so does those years count or no?)Thanks Fred for the info.
spicyayam
I believe it was free, but apparently the second KITAP is 10 million rupiah. After that it is free.I need to renew in 2018 so if that is the case I will let you know.
Fred2
You pay for your first Kitap then you renew after five years for a fee. Finished you only report every five years no cost(year10)This only applies to Kitap visa I think, need to go back read other type of permanent stay visa.
tel522
UU nomor 6 tahun 2011Article 59(1) Permanent Stay Permit shall be provided for theperiod of 5 (five) years and can be renewed for[U][B]indefinite period [/B][/U]to the extent that his/her permitis not cancelled.(2) Holder of Permanent Stay Permit for indefiniteperiod as contemplated in paragraph (1) must reportto the Immigration Office every 5 (five) years andfree of charge.g. Marital breakup of the Foreigner who is legallymarried to an Indonesian citizen due to divorceand/or upon court verdict, unless such marriage[B][U]has been ten (10) years old or more[/U][/B].After 10 years on a Kitap happy days, Article 60 explains everything ,[/QUOTE]hi fred 2 , thanks for your info , does it mention about death of sponsor ? on the other forum discussion there is some thought that one would need an indonesian sponsor to continue the kitap ?
davita
The whole UU No.6 2011 is pasted here and the translation is by the Indonesian Government.....[url]http://www.imigrasi.go.id/phocadownloadpap/Undang-Undang/uu%20nomor%206%20tahun%202011%20-%20%20english%20version.pdf[/url]The appropriate section pertaining to the OPs question starts at article 53.Fred2 is correct in article 62 (G) where it stipulates that those who have been married more than 10 years will [B]not[/B] lose their Kitap....no matter how long the Kitap has been in issue.However.....Article 63 (1) Foreigners present in RI shall be [B]obliged[/B] to have a guarantor (sponsor) that warrants his/her presence.Article 63 (4) Provision concerning warranty is [B]not valid[/B] to a foreigner who is legally [B]married[/B] with an Indonesian Citizen.Article 63 (5) Provides that this guarantee is [B]not valid[/B] with regard to article 62 (G). i.e. divorcees who have been married more than 10 years.Nowhere that I read is there a stipulation to what happens where a foreigner is no longer married due to spousal demise. A guarantor would then, according to my interpretation, need to be provided. I suspect they just haven't thought about this situation and there's no graft money to pursue or some media to create embarrassment. This situation could explain my previous post where an event actually happened. Article 56 covers this as a ministerial decree can change the status....and the 'old guy' had his status changed from a Spousal Kitap to a Retirement Kitap.
davita
Spicy and Fred2 are correct with regard to a spousal sponsored Kitap. After one's first Kitap expires the next is forever but costs Rp10 M if DIY at Imigrasi. After that it only needs a report every 5 years but there is still no mention of how they plan the mandatory MERP. At present that is only issued every 2 years...and costs Rp1.75 M!Re: Natasha ...it's 10 years of legal marriage that's relevant.
tel522
thanks for the clarifications
Natasha
Spicy and Fred2 are correct with regard to a spousal sponsored Kitap. After one's first Kitap expires the next is forever but costs Rp10 M if DIY at Imigrasi. After that it only needs a report every 5 years but there is still no mention of how they plan the mandatory MERP. At present that is only issued every 2 years...and costs Rp1.75 M![/QUOTE]So you have to pay separately for the MERP for a KITAP? For the KITAS it's now included in the price and part of the package (I think they changed that last year or the year before?).I'm applying for my first KITAP in February, so I will ask about the cost of the second KITAP, what the costs are after 10 years, plus the MERP costs (if there's a separate fee). I'll let you know what immigration tells me. Anything else?
davita
So you have to pay separately for the MERP for a KITAP? For the KITAS it's now included in the price and part of the package (I think they changed that last year or the year before?).I'm applying for my first KITAP in February, so I will ask about the cost of the second KITAP, what the costs are after 10 years, plus the MERP costs (if there's a separate fee). I'll let you know what immigration tells me. Anything else?[/QUOTE]As far as Immigration is concerned the price of all visas and merps etc are separated although a MERP is now mandatory and its validity lines-up with the Visa. Previously they always expired a month earlier...a real pain.i.e. since June 2014 the fees are....A spousal sponsored 5 year Kitap costs Rp3.5 M. The extension when the first has expired is Rp10 M.A MERP for 6 months is Rp 600,000...for one year is Rp 1.0 M and for two years is Rp1.75 MAn agent may roll both into one, and give you a packet-price, but they are separate.When applying for a 5 year Kitap it will be granted with the initial 2 year MERP; thereafter you will need to apply for a 2nd 2 year MERP and a subsequent 1 year MERP. These costs should be discussed with your agent or kept in mind if DIY.
Fred2
The whole UU No.6 2011 is pasted here and the translation is by the Indonesian Government.....[url]http://www.imigrasi.go.id/phocadownloadpap/Undang-Undang/uu%20nomor%206%20tahun%202011%20-%20%20english%20version.pdf[/url]The appropriate section pertaining to the OPs question starts at article 53.Fred2 is correct in article 62 (G) where it stipulates that those who have been married more than 10 years will [B]not[/B] lose their Kitap....no matter how long the Kitap has been in issue.However.....Article 63 (1) Foreigners present in RI shall be [B]obliged[/B] to have a guarantor (sponsor) that warrants his/her presence.Article 63 (4) Provision concerning warranty is [B]not valid[/B] to a foreigner who is legally [B]married[/B] with an Indonesian Citizen.Article 63 (5) Provides that this guarantee is [B]not valid[/B] with regard to article 62 (G). i.e. divorcees who have been married more than 10 years.Nowhere that I read is there a stipulation to what happens where a foreigner is no longer married due to spousal demise. A guarantor would then, according to my interpretation, need to be provided. I suspect they just haven't thought about this situation and there's no graft money to pursue or some media to create embarrassment. This situation could explain my previous post where an event actually happened. Article 56 covers this as a ministerial decree can change the status....and the 'old guy' had his status changed from a Spousal Kitap to a Retirement Kitap.[/QUOTE]Article 63(1) [U][B]Certain Foreigner[/B][/U] who is present in the IndonesianTerritory shall be obliged to have a Guarantor thatwarrants his/her presence.
Fred2
Davita you are applying for a retirement Kitaps?? can you get a KTP??? just thinking are they the same??
davita
Article 63(1) [U][B]Certain Foreigner[/B][/U] who is present in the IndonesianTerritory shall be obliged to have a Guarantor thatwarrants his/her presence.[/QUOTE]So what's the difference in terms of the rules (certain foreigner and foreigners)...as I said the RI Gov't translated the link I provided. Can you see any difference in the original, as provided in Bahasa Indonesia, or their translated version?My interpretation is that is just a figure of speech, used in their translation and to clearly define the others in 63 (4) and (5).
davita
Davita you are applying for a retirement Kitaps?? can you get a KTP??? just thinking are they the same??[/QUOTE]Co-incidentally just went yesterday to get photographed and fingerprinted...supposed to get our passports back this afternoon but I think next week more likely...we'll see.Answer to your question is we have applied for a KTP Asing. This is different to Kitap which is a permanent stay visa issued to foreigners. A KTP is an Indonesian ID card which all Indonesians must have. A KTP Asing is issued to foreigners but not many apply as most assume the Kitas/Kitap card is sufficient ID.In Bali you cannot buy a new car without showing a KTP issued in Bali. Also, a KTP can get discounts in some hospitals.edit: The imigrasi on the by-pass near the airport circle was jam-packed yesterday but using our agent we were done in under 10 mins. I overheard they are re-locating the office soon. Our agent's rep laughed and said...you wont need to know the new place. I thought he meant I might not live long enough to see the move but my wife said he meant because they do all the work....:black_eyed:When I think of all the money I've churned over to his boss I'm happy that he respects that is what I pay for.Edit: Just found from a senior officer in Bali police that a KTP Orang Asing cannot buy a new car in Bali....only those with KTP WNI.
