sakumabali
I think they could have built another 3,500m (current one 3,000m) runway at Ngurah Rai if they hadn't built the Mandara toll road across the mangrove to Nusa Dua.It could have been built parallel to, but south and east, of the current runway, directly over the shallow swamp.One end at the shipping lanes to Benoa and the other end at the Ngurah Rai by-pass road.It would require a tunnel to be built under the by-pass airport end to accommodate traffic, much like they did at Changi airport and others, but it would be considerably cheaper than a completely new airport where no-one wants to be.[/QUOTE]They couldn't as the mangroves are protected, so indeed the runway is non-extendable. One side the ocean (danger of further erosion), the other side the mangroves. We all know how much Balinese like reclamation. And right they are. BTW anybody knows why the Ngurah Airport is where it is? They chose the location because entry & exit lane are over the ocean so the planes with thousands of bules are not flying over the Brahmans heads.
davita
1. They couldn't as the mangroves are protected, so indeed the runway is non-extendable. One side the ocean (danger of further erosion), the other side the mangroves. We all know how much Balinese like reclamation. And right they are.2. BTW anybody knows why the Ngurah Airport is where it is? They chose the location because entry & exit lane are over the ocean so the planes with thousands of bules are not flying over the Brahmans heads.[/QUOTE]1. If the mangrove was so protected how come they built the Mandara Toll road in the same location as I suggest a runway could have been built? 2. I realize you are being sarcastic but, to keep my post slightly serious, here's a history lesson about Ngurah Rai airport...Wiki..."[I]The airport was originally built as a simple 700 m long airstrip by the Dutch Colonial administration's Voor Verkeer en Waterstaats public works office. When first established the site only had a few huts and a short grass runway. The northern end lay in the Tuban village graveyard and in the south it occupied previously vacant land.""A poorly motivated garrison of 600 Dutch led Balinese militia deserted almost immediately as the Japanese invaded the island. Their Dutch commander was to learn that through a misunderstanding of his orders, Tuban airfield had not been destroyed by explosives as he had ordered. Apparently his order not to delay the demolition was misread by the demolition engineers at the airstrip who thought instead that he wanted the operation delayed. This confusion allowed the Japanese to take the airfield completely intact. During the occupation period the Japanese made improvements to the runway at the airport. In the five years from 1942 to 1947 the length of the runway was extended to 1,200 m from the original 700 m."[/I]
sakumabali
No I'm serious, I married into an old balinese Brahman family, I'm Hindu too. No proofs of course but that's the story. That the dutch discussed this matter with the banjars & priests.I also would say that there's a difference between a bridge/road for cars and a fully loaded jumbo? They discussed that matter many years ago but government then decided they can't extend the runway due to reasons above mentioned
Mark
Bottom line is that Ngurah Rai is running out of capacity, and both the Bali and national government love the revenue and taxes flowing in from ever increasing tourism. So, it's pretty much a no brainer that a new airport will eventually be built, just a question of when. North Bali seems logical, as it would also be convenient to Ubud and beautiful but relatively undeveloped places like Bedugul.
sakumabali
Why north Bali seems logical? There are mountains between the north and the south, there is just one shitty country road. There's nothing logical about it. Just Pastika tries to please his homies. West & East makes by far more sense!
davita
I agree with Sakumabali that building an airport on the north shore is illogical.Of course many developers would like a piece of that money-making action but for the general tourist, visiting Bali, it would be a white elephant unless a completely new fast infrastructure (road/rail) was also built to take them to the south and white beaches. The beaches in the north are not conducive to beach lovers so it's unlikely tourists would wish to stay there.IMO expanding Banyuwangi's airport and building a bridge and fast road/rail to south Bali makes more sense.The current limitation of Ngurah Rai is it only has one runway...I'd think getting 'professional' advice on building another runway, and how much would it cost, would be a good start to make any comparisons.
tel522
I agree ,limited infrastructure facilities but quite attractive country side, in some areas , I could not imagine living there , jeez! having to trek back to south bali to do a bit of shopping , I also hear the power is not so stable, voltage up and down. I may as well move back to mogadishu where I lived 35 years ago , at least the beaches were pristine white sand .
sakumabali
.IMO expanding Banyuwangi's airport and building a bridge and fast road/rail to south Bali makes more sense.[/QUOTE]Absolutely but balinese don't want a bridge, they are scared of "hordes of muslim barbarians invading little Bali", I had many of discussions, asking where's the difference? They can come in right now too? I think it would be safer if you have a little Checkpoint Charlie there, you drive 5 minutes over the bridge & more time to check people, KTP & overloaded trucks (perhaps they MUST drive over a scale to get in).I think IF it's possible to build a bridge I'd love the idea.Regarding Ngurah Rai, I heard people saying that a A380 for example could land but couldn't start (fully loaded), so there's always a stopover at the usual suspects. A huge disadvantage when you can fly London - Singapore or Bangkok but to Bali you need a stopover with 2 extra hours waiting, boarding....they'd need 500-800 meters more but they won't find them anywhere at that location. Imagine a backfill of 800 meters going into the ocean and Kuta won't have no waves and sand anymore
spicyayam
I agree ,limited infrastructure facilities but quite attractive country side, in some areas , I could not imagine living there , jeez! having to trek back to south bali to do a bit of shopping , I also hear the power is not so stable, voltage up and down. I may as well move back to mogadishu where I lived 35 years ago , at least the beaches were pristine white sand .[/QUOTE]You can buy much more stuff in the north than when I first moved here. More businesses are opening up, like Pepito and apparently a new, more modern hospital is being built. Power is fine. I think the south has more outages.
davita
1. Absolutely but balinese don't want a bridge, they are scared of "hordes of muslim barbarians invading little Bali", I had many of discussions, asking where's the difference? They can come in right now too? I think it would be safer if you have a little Checkpoint Charlie there, you drive 5 minutes over the bridge & more time to check people, KTP & overloaded trucks (perhaps they MUST drive over a scale to get in).2. I think IF it's possible to build a bridge I'd love the idea.3. Regarding Ngurah Rai, I heard people saying that a A380 for example could land but couldn't start (fully loaded), so there's always a stopover at the usual suspects. A huge disadvantage when you can fly London - Singapore or Bangkok but to Bali you need a stopover with 2 extra hours waiting, boarding....they'd need 500-800 meters more but they won't find them anywhere at that location. Imagine a backfill of 800 meters going into the ocean and Kuta won't have no waves and sand anymore[/QUOTE]1. I understand the concept of Balinese mythology but they are also pragmatic...they know where the money comes from. I witness so many 'B " registered cars in Bali that I've actually written to the Bali Government my idea to preclude long term non DK registered cars to have a permit to remain in Bali Province more than 30 days...2. Agreed.3. Your comment about the A380 aircraft, in regard to Bali airport, is irrelevant. I have two ex MSA 380's that I'd like to sell you.Notwithstanding, the frequency of flights demands an extra runway at DPS for the next 20 years and that is the criteria. The new terminal can accept the capacity envisaged ...the problem is in the arrival and departure aircraft with only one runway.My belief is Pastika, and cronies, work their magic to convince the concept of 'how can we maximise gain for our bank accounts.' but I have no knowledge of any facts.My desire is to establish a greater gain, for those like my maid and her son, to achieve some global education but...still... they prescribe to temple, prayer and culture.I envy them.
Nydave
Whats the problem about having a different reg on the licence plate,they are all Indonesian cars,so if you come from a different part of the country you should be penalized for being in bali ,,thats starting to sound like the Bali government view from a couple of years ago when they stated that anything other than DK plate was and import,if im not mistaken they also have a restriction on the age of any car that can be registered in Bali,its just more of the same old bs,we dont want you or you`r car we just want your money,
davita
I don't understand what it is you don't understand Nydave. Even in New York, if your car is registered somewhere else, lets say Philadelphia, that is where they get the revenue from that income. Yet New Yorkers tax pays for the NY roadways....same principle in Bali.If a car is registered in Java, that is where the revenue is earned to support the infrastructure in Java ...not in Bali.
Mark
Does anyone know why vehicles, both cars and motorcycles, are priced higher in Bali than in Java? It ranges from a 5-10% uplift, much more than the cost of transport. None of my Balinese friends can provide a credible explanation. Perhaps this is why davita you see more Java registered vehicles.
Nydave
I fully understand,and i agree that its how they raise revenue for infrastructure,however you are incorrect about Ny,here its very common to to have a different state plate on cars,even commercials,this is done because Ny is probably one of the more expensive for insurance,as long as you have an address or even use of an address i another state then everything is fine,i even avail of a similar oppertunity myself to save on insurance for commercials,,however my plates are still Ny ,
davita
hey guys...(Mark and Nydave)...we are in agreement. We know why there are so many cars in Bali...all I'm attempting to suggest is how to get some out... or make the owners contribute to Bali so we can finance a better infrastructure to enable de-congestion.
JohnnyCool
Some thoughts:1. Bali is already over-populated2. Bali is already over-crowded3. Bali 'infrastructure' is an endless 'work in progress', against great odds4. Bali is struggling to cope with or ameliorate the damage already done5. Governments, both local and national want to damage Bali even moreThe 'no brainer' here is to attempt to 'fix' the damage already done, not to add to it, by adding millions more visitors every year.Whomever 'planned' the current chaos should have realised decades ago that you can't squeeze the Indian Ocean into a milk bottle.Try to pull into a parking lot that's already full. If you're lucky, someone [I]might[/I] tell you that.Fly into a 'full' Bali - oops - no parking lot attendant anywhere to be seen. Just various shades of money collectors.
mugwump
Another strange thing is that the car is required to return for renewed licensing to be done in the propinsi in which it was originally registered at each 5 year period. It can't be done by courier with documents.
charles123
I'm going to veer off-topic, or maybe back on-topic for this thread, land prices in N. Bali.I visited N. Bali for the first time this past weekend and looked at some land and villas. Some of the sellers expectations seem way out of whack with the current market. One local guy, when he learned I was looking at land, showed me some beachfront land his friend "needed to sell." It was indeed beachfront and just 5-10 mins from Lovina, but he started out asking 400M/are, when down the road I had seen a better plot asking for less than 200M/are. Both of these plots were about 11are. So prices and expectations can vary greatly, but I guess that is nothing new.I did not find Lovina at all crowded, despite that the tour companies are all running buses up there to take people dolphin watching. That said, there are some restaurants and bars, so perhaps a better area for living than say Air Sanih, where I did not see any real restaurants or stores. There are some very nice villas for sale, and certainly prices are lower than Seminyak and Sanur, and there seems to be more Hak Milik available, as opposed to say Sanur/Canggu where most properties now seem to be Leasehold. Traffic is not so bad, but the roads are the same as everywhere so will not be able to handle any more traffic well. It's a trek getting from South to North and back, especially if there is rain, as you can only go as fast as the slowest car/truck/farmer, some of whom are content to mosey along at 25kph. It would be nice if they would consider improving infrastructure now, before conditions are like in the South, and then being stuck, but I would not have high hopes for any such foresight or action.The North gets different tourists/visitors than the South. I saw older visitors/tourists and backpackers. I didn't see much else, like not many families, and not alot of "crazy Australians" as some of the locals refer to any bule out getting pissed.It is a difficult decision, North vs. South, as they have different things to offer.
mugwump
I'm going to veer off-topic, or maybe back on-topic for this thread, land prices in N. Bali.I visited N. Bali for the first time this past weekend and looked at some land and villas. Some of the sellers expectations seem way out of whack with the current market. One local guy, when he learned I was looking at land, showed me some beachfront land his friend "needed to sell." It was indeed beachfront and just 5-10 mins from Lovina, but he started out asking 400M/are, when down the road I had seen a better plot asking for less than 200M/are. Both of these plots were about 11are. So prices and expectations can vary greatly, but I guess that is nothing new.I did not find Lovina at all crowded, despite that the tour companies are all running buses up there to take people dolphin watching. That said, there are some restaurants and bars, so perhaps a better area for living than say Air Sanih, where I did not see any real restaurants or stores. There are some very nice villas for sale, and certainly prices are lower than Seminyak and Sanur, and there seems to be more Hak Milik available, as opposed to say Sanur/Canggu where most properties now seem to be Leasehold. Traffic is not so bad, but the roads are the same as everywhere so will not be able to handle any more traffic well. It's a trek getting from South to North and back, especially if there is rain, as you can only go as fast as the slowest car/truck/farmer, some of whom are content to mosey along at 25kph. It would be nice if they would consider improving infrastructure now, before conditions are like in the South, and then being stuck, but I would not have high hopes for any such foresight or action.The North gets different tourists/visitors than the South. I saw older visitors/tourists and backpackers. I didn't see much else, like not many families, and not alot of "crazy Australians" as some of the locals refer to any bule out getting pissed.It is a difficult decision, North vs. South, as they have different things to offer.[/QUOTE]Realize that there are still 4 directions and you are only covering 2. Certainly East Bali may not be a consideration currently because of the impending fireworks, but myself prefer West Bali having lived here for 12 years. It all depends upon your priorities and biases. By mentioning this am not contesting anyone's preferences, but only suggest taking a good look at your opportunities.
charles123
I don't disagree with West Bali also being a good alternative :). I just haven't visited there so don't know what infrastructure is in place. East Bali is out for me because of Agung. One thing I like about the North is that there is a road that goes along the whole coast and, at least as yet, there still is not so much traffic on it that it is unpleasant to drive on.
