Leasing dilemma.

Markit

Unless the new leasee has a pondok wisata and legal permission (business visa) to rent they are breaking the law and most possibly your rental agreement, or have you allowed them to sublet?

harryopal

Markit wrote Unless the new leasee has a pondok wisata and legal permission (business visa) to rent they are breaking the law and most possibly your rental agreement, or have you allowed them to sublet?

Markit, thanks for the prompt response. There was no agreement to sub let. My wife is waiting for the formal lease agreement to come back from her sister in Jakarta for signing. After that she will advise the tenant that my wife must agree to any new tenant otherwise the present occupant will be in breach of the law.

spicyayam

If I had a place to rent, I would not allow subleasing. If a person takes a 12 month lease and leaves after 6, then I would be taking the property back.

JackStraw

Russian gangs have been running rampant around Bali for far too long now. They've full planted their seeds in the island and it won't be long before the entire criminal underworld here is run by Russians like in Thailand. perhaps this has happened already

sakumabali

spicyayam wrote If I had a place to rent, I would not allow subleasing. If a person takes a 12 month lease and leaves after 6, then I would be taking the property back.

Where's the problem? There's a house under 12 month contract and now they subleased the remainder (for a higher price). If the owner still holds the deposit (or security amount for furniture etc) he's safe or not? if the subtenant wants to extend and the lessee wants to keep all the price difference then you need to talk. If the lessee pays all upfront (yearly) than why he can't keep that? If the lessee pays monthly you can always approach the subtenant and offer him the same rent (or a bit less - win win for both)

harryopal

My Indonesian wife has just completed final tidying up details and furnished a sister's newly built, small house here in Bali. The sister lives in Bali. Just this week a European national took a 12 month lease, paid for the lease and a bond. The national had indicated she would probably leave Bali in six months and hand on the remainder of the lease to a friend. We now see that the house has been immediately offered for leasing at a higher price but not obscenely higher price. I imagine this is not an uncommon occurrence. What might my wife's options be in the matter? One is obviously to just let it go forward and simply check a little while later that the house is still in good order. Interested to known what Balipod members with more experience in leasing arrangements think and to offer suggestions. (Polite suggestions.) Thanks in anticipation.

PERtoDPS

If you are going to end up with an empty property to rent in Bali let me know, maybe we can work something out? still doing hotels on a month to month basis.

Mark

harryopal wrote Markit, thanks for the prompt response. There was no agreement to sub let. My wife is waiting for the formal lease agreement to come back from her sister in Jakarta for signing. After that she will advise the tenant that my wife must agree to any new tenant otherwise the present occupant will be in breach of the law.

I'm confused. Is there is a signed agreement in place or not? Assuming there is, and there's no sublet clause, then you (I'm referring to your sister in law) are well within your rights to claim breach of lease. If you want to be a nice guy/gal, my advice is to tell the tenant that she is welcome to use the property herself for the duration of the lease, but that no other guests will be allowed in unless she is present (given that she has already tried to breach the lease by subletting). If you want to play tough, tell her that she's breached the lease, that you have suffered damages since you could have rented to someone else more honest but now cannot because of the situation, and that her money is forfeit. My guess is that she is Russian(?), as this is a common game for them here in Bali, to rent from locals and then jack up the price and illegally sublet - it's basically illegal work and unlike the digital nomads, the property is here, so there's no way to defend it. If she protests, then just say that you will file a case with immigration that she is illegally working here by trying to illegally sublet a rental property (which also doesn't have pondok wisata). People have been kicked out of Indonesia and blacklisted for less. In any case, the good news is that you've been paid the full amount of the lease, so you hold all the cards.. Unless/until she returns, my advice is don't let anyone in the place for the time being...

harryopal

Mark, well it happens, yes, the tenant is Russian. I am passing on the various comments to my wife so up to her and her sister as to how they deal with this. We happen to have a young, Russian couple with a child, as neighbours next door so I braced for stereotypical behaviour of loud, vodka parties and foot slapping. stomp dancing. None of that. What's the point of having stereotypes if they don't live up to them? Earlier in one of our brief exchanges, when I asked if they were holidaying, the fellow said, 'Working on line. Gambling." Since then they seem to be carefully avoiding conversation or questions.Two years ago while ago when temporarily at a kos there was also a young , Russian couple with a child who said they were holidaying but always left in the morning and returned evening as if coming home from work. They never tanned or seemed to go to the beach which, with a child one might expect. They left quietly. The present tenant at the sister in law's house says she has a tourist business and is on a six month visa. Is there a six month visa? The few people around until Jimbaran beach recently closed, mostly seemed Russian. Ahh well, who isn't a bit strange?

SamD

spicyayam wrote If I had a place to rent, I would not allow subleasing. If a person takes a 12 month lease and leaves after 6, then I would be taking the property back.

Lucky you. I have an investment property in Australia and as soon as the government announced its moratorium on evictions he stopped paying rent. I have to continue the mortgage payments of course. His welfare payments have doubled but I am the one footing the bill, once as a landlord and again as a taxpayer. I have always maintained that anything the Australian government tries to manage, they always make a complete cockup. Disaster management is no exception.

PERtoDPS

harryopal wrote Mark, well it happens, yes, the tenant is Russian. I am passing on the various comments to my wife so up to her and her sister as to how they deal with this. We happen to have a young, Russian couple with a child, as neighbours next door so I braced for stereotypical behaviour of loud, vodka parties and foot slapping. stomp dancing. None of that. What's the point of having stereotypes if they don't live up to them? Earlier in one of our brief exchanges, when I asked if they were holidaying, the fellow said, 'Working on line. Gambling." Since then they seem to be carefully avoiding conversation or questions.Two years ago while ago when temporarily at a kos there was also a young , Russian couple with a child who said they were holidaying but always left in the morning and returned evening as if coming home from work. They never tanned or seemed to go to the beach which, with a child one might expect. They left quietly. The present tenant at the sister in law's house says she has a tourist business and is on a six month visa. Is there a six month visa? The few people around until Jimbaran beach recently closed, mostly seemed Russian. Ahh well, who isn't a bit strange?

As soon as I read that and "work online" carding, credit card fraud come to mind

Foamcrest

Would you be interested in the area of Penestanan 5 minutes from Ubud? A man I know manages several villas scattered around the village all of a high standard with swimming pool. They are an assortment of one two and three bedroom villas. He is leasing them at a fraction of their normal rent in order to just have someone occupy them to deter theft and looting.

PERtoDPS

harryopal wrote My Indonesian wife has just completed final tidying up details and furnished a sister's newly built, small house here in Bali. The sister lives in Bali. Just this week a European national took a 12 month lease, paid for the lease and a bond. The national had indicated she would probably leave Bali in six months and hand on the remainder of the lease to a friend. We now see that the house has been immediately offered for leasing at a higher price but not obscenely higher price. I imagine this is not an uncommon occurrence. What might my wife's options be in the matter? One is obviously to just let it go forward and simply check a little while later that the house is still in good order. Interested to known what Balipod members with more experience in leasing arrangements think and to offer suggestions. (Polite suggestions.) Thanks in anticipation.

Used to happen all the time at apartment I used to rent in Denpasar in that complex, property manager even said we could do it at one point (although we never did). As long as property isn't damaged what's issue?

Mark

PERtoDPS wrote Used to happen all the time at apartment I used to rent in Denpasar in that complex, property manager even said we could do it at one point (although we never did). As long as property isn't damaged what's issue?

The issue is that in an illegal sublet, the property is being used and occupied by someone you have never met, and who likely your tenant has never met as well, with all the potential bad consequences that could result. For the home owner, it's all downside and no upside, which we'd all agree is a pretty dumb way for an asset owner to manage risk. It's even more troubling in the present case where the main tenant has left the country, cannot return for the time being and therefore has no control or management over her subtenants and what they actually do in and to the property. It is also illegal if the sub-rental is short term and the villa does not have a pondok wisata license. It's quite possible that the authorities would look in the first instance to punish the owner in the event such illegal activity is discovered. Some home owners may be comfortable with this overall state of affairs, but I reckon that most are not.

harryopal

Thank you all for the various replies. The situation moved along a bit with the tenant saying she did not want to stay in the house citing a nearby charcoal producing house adjacent that gives off smoke. She asked for her money back. The Sister in law has told the tenant that if she wants to sublet, the tenant may but Sis in law wants to be notified and provided with copies of passports or IDs. Having seen my share of films with heavy, Russian Mafia types, last night I dreamt of being at the place when this 6'4" tall, wide as a doorway, Russian bloke came to get the money back. This morning I suggested to my wife that should she be asked to meet at the house the answer should be "no". With an overly active imagination I could see her being heavied to refund the money. When the Sis in Law in Jakarta made direct touch with the tenant and asked what she did for a living, the question was unanswered. Apparently she has moved out of the house. I think that initially the idea was to make some money with subletting, hence the advertisement on Facebook, but with the rapid changes with the Corona situation she has realized that there may now be few prospective people to take up the subletting. There are not too many people going to just casually forget about the paid up rental so a sublet might be a better end result than some kind of vindictive retaliatory measure. Will you keep you posted on how this goes.

JackStraw

PERtoDPS wrote If you are going to end up with an empty property to rent in Bali let me know, maybe we can work something out? still doing hotels on a month to month basis.

There are a million facebook groups offering apartments, villas, rumahs for rent. Also try OLX.co.id. People are giving away rooms right now and there is absolutely no reasons why anyone should be ever living in a hotel in Bali

PERtoDPS

thanks Jackstraw will check it out I had no idea

PERtoDPS

Just got offered next month at 60% off my usual rent, so those of you who offered to act as spotters better get on it, seems like a good opportunity to jump on

SamD

PERtoDPS wrote While you could have potentially raised some issues for some people, my situation simply doesn't reflect what you post, to me you come off as trolling or an insecure clinical person with a need to put others down which we all know just means you're weak. Been doing this for 2 years, I know exactly what I'm getting myself in to and for the record [U][B]my partners family has never asked me for a single cent.[/B][/U][B] [B]You assume way too much. I was just excited at the prospect of cheap rent, of course the haters are going to hate, meanwhile I'll be enjoying life.[/B][/B]

That is my experience too. Married for fifteen years and never experienced anything like what baliwho described.

PERtoDPS

Foamcrest wrote Would you be interested in the area of Penestanan 5 minutes from Ubud? A man I know manages several villas scattered around the village all of a high standard with swimming pool. They are an assortment of one two and three bedroom villas. He is leasing them at a fraction of their normal rent in order to just have someone occupy them to deter theft and looting.

Hello yes possibly interested we are currently in Sanur they've dropped our rent A LITTLE but feel can get a much better deal. My indo Mrs stays there usually I stay there when i go to bali and occasionally her family comes (but 1 or 2 people once or twice a month) Needs to have western toilet shower and cooking perhaps we can trade whatsapp?