geedee
Markit
Yawn! The tourist season must be just about over in Oz...
YPDN
Sorry, listers. Darn servers. Just ignore one of those - they are the same posts. Admin can delete one if wanted.
Mark
Storm in a teacup (uh, beer mug). Will never happen.
Nydave
Wont happen but is good enough reason to raise the tax again,
YPDN
JohnnyCool wroteNot that Indonesia's one of the "greatest nations on Earth" yet, (if ever), it already taxes alcohol heavily (especially imported stuff).
I didn't have ROI and 'the greatest nations' in the same sentence. I was simply pointing out how some of the others handle this issue.
JohnnyCool wroteThe same could be said about attempts to curtail the tobacco industry. Imagine that?
I recall the President passed/declared a ruling that if you were already 19 yrs old and smoked then you could continue to do so. But any younger and it is not permitted. I thought that was a really good use of his Presidential power.
The use of alcohol in drinks has been around for hundreds of years.
YPDN
The banning of alcohol in RI has been raised before and you can still get it [U]lots[/U] of places in Bali. But, some people can't live without the stuff. I love wine although I don't drink it every day, or even every week. Maybe twice a month you'll see me enjoying reds or whites. So, I couldn't care less if it was banned in Bali and, in some ways, it's a great idea because drinking alcohol is a mug's game to start with. Beer drinkers can do Home Brew if they are really desperate. As can spirit drinkers. Wine drinkers - I suppose they can too? I have no idea about home made wine but I have heard of it.
Being essentially a Muslim country is driving this in RI and if you're not happy about that then find some other corner of the Globe to frequent. Let your wallet do the talking. And, don't forget, the greatest nations on Earth do not ban alcohol. They simply tax it. Hhhhmmmmm . . . You can buy beer/wine/spirits in the USA at WalMart and a go-zillion other places there. Australia, the same. And as for the UK, they are pizzpotz with their entrenched pint-drinking culture. None of these are Muslim countries, and never will be. Even in the movies, you see the actors drinking neat whisky/bourbon/martinis, so it's advertised as a way of life.
I agree with Mr Taylor's thoughts (from the news article). There is too much money at stake, as well. Way too much money to just pull the rug out.
This time "Indonesia is considering a new law that would ban the production, distribution and consumption of alcohol across the country, including in Bali." is just like the previous 'attempts' and it won't get any wings with which to fly, IMO. Indonesia needs all the money it can get to look after the basics.
Indonesia is better to focus on removing the stray rabies dogs & cats from the streets than this proposed action. And fix the roads for both surface condition and traffic congestion. Et-cet-era. There's a LOT on the To Do List for RI, and the President and his merry men need to get on with it.
JohnnyCool
[QUOTE]..And, don't forget, the greatest nations on Earth do not ban alcohol. They simply tax it. Hhhhmmmmm..[/QUOTE]
Not that Indonesia's one of the "greatest nations on Earth" yet, (if ever), it already taxes alcohol heavily (especially imported stuff).
Two of the Islamist parties, (PKS and PPP), currently in the DPR and trying to push this through, are in la-la land. They have no idea of the full consequences of such a proposal for tourism and local employment, (those involved in hospitality as well as producers, suppliers, transporters, lost tax revenues, etc). On the other hand, this is "democracy"/Indonesian style. We can only hope that reason prevails.
The same could be said about attempts to curtail the tobacco industry. Imagine that?
Whilst both drugs are highly addictive, it begs the question of why they're actually legal (both here and in most other countries)? Answer: money and big businesses.
I don't believe that Indonesia could afford to ban alcohol outright throughout the country. It also can't afford to cope with the health costs of citizens with alcohol/tobacco related diseases.
Between a rock and a hard place. Glad I'm not in government here.
Shooting itself in the foot with this misguided proposal ain't exactly a good example of Wahhabi "wisdom", (if there is such a thing).
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DenpasarHouse
I might be going native here, but I was thinking the other day about having to drive my son around in the future and I thought is it really unsafe to let a 15 year old ride a scooter in Bali? I mean am I really going to forbid my 15 year old kid from taking the scooter down to the supermarket to get an ice-cream?
Strangely enough, in Australia, I definitely wouldn't let him, the speeds are higher and people simply don't look out for motorcyclists. Here the overwhelming culture of the road is a motorbike culture. The idea that you wouldn't look out for motorbikes is unthinkable.
For my money, they should lower the age to 15 and then strictly enforce that.
DenpasarHouse
Mark wroteNot sure I fully agree but it's your call - At a minimum a proper fitting helmet and shoes (not slippers) should be worn and he should be taught some basic riding skills, especially regarding speed, braking and checking blind spots (not to mention the rules of the road, both written and unwritten).
Technically, they should be doing all that right now during the process to get their licence.
No thongs? Aduh! I get hot just thinking about wearing a pair of socks.
YPDN
I wonder when or if we'll hear any more on the potential alcohol ban - see post #1.
Mark
DenpasarHouse wroteNo thongs? Aduh! I get hot just thinking about wearing a pair of socks.
Up to you mate, but don't say you weren't warned, this is what can happen... [ATTACH]2770.vB[/ATTACH]
DenpasarHouse
Mark wroteUp to you mate, but don't say you weren't warned, this is what can happen... [ATTACH=CONFIG]2770[/ATTACH]
How about I meet you half way and wear sandals from now on?
YPDN
Mark wroteUp to you mate, but don't say you weren't warned, this is what can happen...
And it's why the pro riders wear leathers and boots - they already know what can happen.
DenpasarHouse
YPDN wroteI use an Int'l Permit which is $45 (Rp450K) [I]per annum[/I].
Be careful with this. I doubt the Indo cops know it, but they're technically not valid if you become a permanent resident.
JohnnyCool
[QUOTE]..I recall the President passed/declared a ruling that if you were already 19 yrs old and smoked then you could continue to do so. But any younger and it is not permitted. I thought that was a really good use of his Presidential power..[/QUOTE]
Much of what is "passed/declared" in high places doesn't/hasn't eventuated. Makes you wonder what "power" the top guy really has, (executing drug mules went "OK", yet again, sort of, not completely).
Apart from all the "normal" concerns in Bali, such as the deteriorating environment, overpopulation, water and electricity problems, coastal erosion, sinking water tables, and all the rest, one of my other major concerns is the increasing number of young children riding around on motorbikes.
I read the other day that the mayor of Purwakarta (in West Java), is making it illegal for this to continue unabated. Stiff fines on parents and schools who allow their children to ride, confiscation of motorbikes, etc.
I'm not sure how successful this will be there but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I wish and hope that similar measures will be adopted in Bali, as soon as possible, but I'm not holding my breath.
Meanwhile, multiple disasters are waiting to happen here. Some have already happened, more to come.
The kids in the shot below are "older". Notice no helmets, no licences, obviously no "parental supervision", nor the schools they go to allowing them to park in the first place, etc.
Where I live, some of the kids are maybe 8/9 years old. I nearly got wiped out walking near my place last night.
A convoy of six motorbikes sped past me, three or four kids on each bike, yelling, shouting, having "fun", some without lights on.
Balinese police turn a blind eye (too complicated for them, I guess).
There are [B]never[/B] any police on smaller roads where this goes on all the time. I also see them every day riding past police spots on the main roads.
The cops only seem to be interested in pulling over tourists for imaginary "offences", (like, your front tyre was over the barely visible line at the traffic lights), or pretty Balinese girls for some specious "infringement".
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davita
Absolutely agree with Johnny and this was confirmed by my surgeon who advises the Bali gov't on health matters. He postulated that the BIGGEST detriment to Bali's health was children having accidents on motor bikes.
Not long ago 4 kids in school uniform were racing and crashed into our stationary car and another parked opposite.
The parents arrived and one demanded that we compensate him for damage...my wife was so enraged she called the police and they sorted him out.
The one that hit us was scraped and bleeding so we wanted him to go to hospital but the father said no...I believe he was poor and worried about cost....so we bandaged his kid up and he was very grateful and promised he would take the motor-bike from him.
I saw him a few days later, still in uniform with a bandaged knee, and still riding his damaged motorbike.
What to do. I'm talking to the Klian Banjar to put sleeping police on our stretch of the road.
Markit
Having now driven a motorbike here for almost a year I have to say they are a lovely and relatively safe form of transport - if you disregard the other idiots in cars/trucks/Harleys/ambulances on the road with you. Oh and stay away from the south of the island - fecking awful!
Even the kiddies are no real problem (excepting groups of small boys all clutching on to one bike). The thing about not looking left or right when you enter an intersection comes from the fact that there is a trade-off for the drivers attention: there MAY be danger coming from right or left, but there is FOR SURE a problem with where you are heading - be it the above listed idiot road sharers or bad surfacing (lack of asphalt, sand or grit) or all of these.
Karma is not a part of it.
JohnnyCool
[MENTION=19581]YPDN[/MENTION] [QUOTE]...Their DL - well, Rp350K is a lot to a local and they probably have trouble putting thaat (sic) together at the time...[/QUOTE]Maybe they should have thought about that [B]before[/B] buying a motorbike in the first place, (usually on credit and often at exorbitant interest rates). If they can afford that they should be able to afford the rego fees.
Hey, maybe they should also get discounts for insurance, repairs and maintenance, free parking, helmet prices, leather jackets and motorcycle boots...
Mark
DenpasarHouse wroteI might be going native here, but I was thinking the other day about having to drive my son around in the future and I thought is it really unsafe to let a 15 year old ride a scooter in Bali? I mean am I really going to forbid my 15 year old kid from taking the scooter down to the supermarket to get an ice-cream?
Strangely enough, in Australia, I definitely wouldn't let him, the speeds are higher and people simply don't look out for motorcyclists. Here the overwhelming culture of the road is a motorbike culture. The idea that you wouldn't look out for motorbikes is unthinkable.
For my money, they should lower the age to 15 and then strictly enforce that.
Not sure I fully agree but it's your call - At a minimum a proper fitting helmet and shoes (not slippers) should be worn and he should be taught some basic riding skills, especially regarding speed, braking and checking blind spots (not to mention the rules of the road, both written and unwritten).
