Whats going on with tourists in Bali

harryopal

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May 5, 2016
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Never been to Israel but am nonplussed at the term "Commonwealth of Australia." I used to naively think that it meant us common people had a share in the wealth of Australia. There was an attempt to put that into practice during the Whitlam era but by and large governments have always been reluctant to interfere with any programs that might upset the entrenched wealthy. While we nourish mythologies about who we are, the bronzed daring Aussies, successive governments have lacked the will power and preparedness to invest in on going innovations. There is the massive Snowy Mountains Hydro project and we had the wonderful CSRIO research body doing great things but increasingly funding is based on development of immediately profitable commercial programs. Forget the future. Traditionally we are mean minded and find it hard to spend money on the kind of long term research activities such as you mentioned are taking place in Israel. There are of course many individual innovative things happening across this vast country but we have lacked the collective imagination to commit funds in a way that might produce the outcomes apparently achieved by Israel. Easier to commit to billions of dollars on a nuclear submarine program. Ahh well, as Ned Kelly the bushranger said before they hanged him, "Such is life."
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Shadrach

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Feb 20, 2021
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Never been to Israel but am nonplussed at the term "Commonwealth of Australia." I used to naively think that it meant us common people had a share in the wealth of Australia. There was an attempt to put that into practice during the Whitlam era but by and large governments have always been reluctant to interfere with any programs that might upset the entrenched wealthy. While we nourish mythologies about who we are, the bronzed daring Aussies, successive governments have lacked the will power and preparedness to invest in on going innovations. There is the massive Snowy Mountains Hydro project and we had the wonderful CSRIO research body doing great things but increasingly funding is based on development of immediately profitable commercial programs. Forget the future. Traditionally we are mean minded and find it hard to spend money on the kind of long term research activities such as you mentioned are taking place in Israel. There are of course many individual innovative things happening across this vast country but we have lacked the collective imagination to commit funds in a way that might produce the outcomes apparently achieved by Israel. Easier to commit to billions of dollars on a nuclear submarine program. Ahh well, as Ned Kelly the bushranger said before they hanged him, "Such is life."
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Hi Harryopal, it is very interesting your story of Australia is so similar to that of the states. What a sad reality when you see these barbarians still wanting to use Nuclear power, especially for a war machine! I don't trust it and never will. It is obvious we the common people have no control of the government controlled by the rich. The common nurse or mechanic, etc. pays more in taxes than the millionaires. If we all just refused to pay taxes and the governments wages, they would panic and cry like babies, before they would send in the military to force us too. But don't forget we outnumber them by millions. They have figured out sufficient ways to control us with fear, social media, unhealthy food, poorly designed neighborhoods, all for the purpose of mind control. It seems to be working very well, and we just just become more stupid by the day. Oh and by the way If the US stopped giving Israel millions of dollars every year things might be different. Why to they always call the Israels a defense force and the Palestinian people terrorist? Why don't they give them both and equal share? It shows how powerful they control Hollywood and the government.
 
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Fred2

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Oct 13, 2010
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My friend is a manger for a large American fast food company, Mangers flew in from the states to Brisbane. They hired a car for the day to tour my friends area before flying out that night. My friend mangers Northern NSW, Queensland and the NT. Now you can understand why there is NO comparison between Israel and Australia.
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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My friend is a manger for a large American fast food company, Mangers flew in from the states to Brisbane. They hired a car for the day to tour my friends area before flying out that night. My friend mangers Northern NSW, Queensland and the NT. Now you can understand why there is NO comparison between Israel and Australia.
I don't get it? If they flew in from the States they must have also had some idea of the size of Oz, if that's what your point was?!
 

Fred2

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Oct 13, 2010
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Surabaya/Australia
I don't get it? If they flew in from the States they must have also had some idea of the size of Oz, if that's what your point was?!
Like most people they think Australia is small, to drive from Melbourne to Alice Springs is 3 days. If you were in Israel and drove for 3 days were would you end up?
 

Andy Capp

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Jun 7, 2023
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As Balifrog says, vast areas uninhabitable areas. Actually reckoned at about 90%. The coastal areas mostly towards the south have about 80% of the population with 70% of the population living in the capital cities. Theoretically there is still penty of room for housing but historically, since first European settlement, the useful land was seen as valuable and allotted by the rulers to the monied members of the community. Profit opportunites in development has driven most of the housing constructions. Various governments have set up housing and building programs but always lagging well behind the overall needs. Conservative governments allowed people with extra wealth to get major tax concessions buying up houses and Since the 1980's this has led to enormous increases in the value of houses and rents. Labor governments have been too frightened of losing the middle class vote if they removed tax advantages although the relatively new, Federal Labor government has been considering taxes for mutliple home ownership. Meanwhile, inflation rates across the spectrum of the cost of living and ever increasing rental costs has led to a surge in homelessness and people being unable to afford the standard of accommodation to which they became accustomed. There is an ongoing economic crisis which governments have yet to really appreciate just how serious this has become and will continue to hammer more and more people into poverty.
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Shortage of water is usually quoted as the major constraint and certainly the area with below say 300mm rainfall is vast. But conversely the area with a moderate 600-1000mm is also substantially larger than the area in this range in UK which houses 90% of our 70m
Obviously though this is not the whole story, with soil quality and climate important factors.
The comparison with Israel is instructive, where both populated and cropping areas receive a fraction of the rainfall similar areas of Australia enjoy. But who recycle domestically and manage farming far more effectively

Australia is in part a prisoner of its demographic history. Across the other continents the potentially liveable land has been progressively tamed over thousands of years and is now quite adapted to supporting human life and endeavour. A good illustration is Australia virtual lack of attractive secondary centres concentrating all activity and population in now over crowded state capitals.
Other developed countries are now seeing steady dispersion away, not to remote areas but to more attractive old established towns and cities within the region with the capitals focusing on government, high finance/legal, opera houses! and tourism.
Australia not having these, is following a more typically Asian pattern of the magnetic mega city. Jakarta now 30 - 40m having swallowed it's neighbouring conurbations.

Housing seems to be an increasing expense and issue everywhere. The sort of new house a young family might aspire to in an outer Sydney/Melbourne suburb is probably a little cheaper than typical across SE England generally, while much cheaper than one say an hours train commute from London. And the house will be bigger (but worse built) While salaries are higher. Away from big city commute zones housing in Australia still seems cheap. Canada US & most West Europe have similar high housing costs

Governments have not helped anywhere with ever changing policies designed to favour this group of voters or that. What we all need is more houses built, anything else is merely rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic
 
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Shadrach

Active Member
Feb 20, 2021
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Shortage of water is usually quoted as the major constraint and certainly the area with below say 300mm rainfall is vast. But conversely the area with a moderate 600-1000mm is also substantially larger than the area in this range in UK which houses 90% of our 70m
Obviously though this is not the whole story, with soil quality and climate important factors.
The comparison with Israel is instructive, where both populated and cropping areas receive a fraction of the rainfall similar areas of Australia enjoy. But who recycle domestically and manage farming far more effectively

Australia is in part a prisoner of its demographic history. Across the other continents the potentially liveable land has been progressively tamed over thousands of years and is now quite adapted to supporting human life and endeavour. A good illustration is Australia virtual lack of attractive secondary centres concentrating all activity and population in now over crowded state capitals.
Other developed countries are now seeing steady dispersion away, not to remote areas but to more attractive old established towns and cities within the region with the capitals focusing on government, high finance/legal, opera houses! and tourism.
Australia not having these, is following a more typically Asian pattern of the magnetic mega city. Jakarta now 30 - 40m having swallowed it's neighbouring conurbations.

Housing seems to be an increasing expense and issue everywhere. The sort of new house a young family might aspire to in an outer Sydney/Melbourne suburb is probably a little cheaper than typical across SE England generally, while much cheaper than one say an hours train commute from London. And the house will be bigger (but worse built) While salaries are higher. Away from big city commute zones housing in Australia still seems cheap. Canada US & most West Europe have similar high housing costs

Governments have not helped anywhere with ever changing policies designed to favour this group of voters or that. What we all need is more houses built, anything else is merely rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic
It seems you have forgotten that the first Europeans to come there were mostly criminals and religiously persecuted people. They did the same thing as the ones that came to America. They did everything possible to wipe out the native culture and stole all the best land. What compensation have they gotten. Shoved to the worst land around while the white people live on all the best land and do their best to pollute it. The Conservative government in both countries give the rich tax breaks to the point that an average nurse, mechanic, carpenter, restaurant worker pays more in taxes. This is
outrageous.. all the government does is drag on and on, and get payed way to much money for nothing good for the land, animals, poor people. They are criminals and should be treated as such. If everyone stopped paying taxes they would have to change their policies to really work for the common person. It's time for everyone to wake up and stop being sheep!
 
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Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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People have been building houses, cities, towns, shops, golf courses, etc for tens of thousands of years so it aint nuthin new now is it?

All the daft arguments against building houses and dropping the rents and house prices through availability are down to one thing - greed.

America and Britain built houses enough when and where they needed them quickly enough after WW2.

The only thing holding them back is greed from old assholes like us who are sitting on a property that has risen in value probably 10 or 20 times since we bought it but we won't let our govs build for our own kids and grandkids or our houses might fall a bit in value - go figure.

Let AI run the show and I'm sure it will go much better than it is now.

ChatGBT if you're listing please come get me I'm ready...
 

Andy Capp

New Member
Jun 7, 2023
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People have been building houses, cities, towns, shops, golf courses, etc for tens of thousands of years so it aint nuthin new now is it?

All the daft arguments against building houses and dropping the rents and house prices through availability are down to one thing - greed.

America and Britain built houses enough when and where they needed them quickly enough after WW2.

The only thing holding them back is greed from old assholes like us who are sitting on a property that has risen in value probably 10 or 20 times since we bought it but we won't let our govs build for our own kids and grandkids or our houses might fall a bit in value - go figure.

Let AI run the show and I'm sure it will go much better than it is now.

ChatGBT if you're listing please come get me I'm ready...
Since I bought my first house. House prices in SE UK gone up 40x. Salaries about 25x.Beer and petrol (only things I can remember) also about 25x. Clothes, fresh food appliances airfares, up far less. Availability where needed is as big a constraint as pure price.
Not sure at an individual level it's greed although the illusion of rising prices always pleases voters, but those who promote fear that any development erodes local quality of life seem to win the argument over necessity and the general good.
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2016
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I bought a house in Port Melbourne in 1982 for $38,000. (Sold it many years ago ) The $ value converted into $ today would be $95,000 but that house today would cost just under $2 million to buy. Greed prevails, encouraged by conservative governments and not curtailed by passive Labor governments. The country is sliding into recession and, as usually occurs in times of crisis, the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. The Australian dream of owning your own home will, for the vast majority, remain just that..... a dream.
 

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Andy Capp

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Jun 7, 2023
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I bought a house in Port Melbourne in 1982 for $38,000. (Sold it many years ago ) The $ value converted into $ today would be $95,000 but that house today would cost just under $2 million to buy. Greed prevails, encouraged by conservative governments and not curtailed by passive Labor governments. The country is sliding into recession and, as usually occurs in times of crisis, the rich will get richer and the poor poorer. The Australian dream of owning your own home will, for the vast majority, remain just that..... a dream.
The comparison you need is a bog standard new house on a new development in the suburbs with similar in a new suburb today. Otherwise not comparing like with like. Yr ratio of 50x not out of line with what might see for say an apartment in Kensington or Chelsea over same period.
The big difference is in UK plenty of professional jobs away from London in attractive towns where house inflation has been lower. Houses here though are then more expensive than they are a similar distance from Melbourne or Sydney.