SillyCon Bali?

[Markit]

I don't know who's fecking with whom here but it's an interesting read and leaves reams and reams of questions untouched. If this is the standard BBC reporting has fallen to I'm going to ask for my years of payments to be reimbursed.

BBC News - Forget Silicon Valley, meet Silicon Bali

 

[davita]

hehehe...Sillycon Bali...good one markit!:cat:

The offered/modified sentence from the report tells the whole tale....

Yet working from paradise has its downsides.
"Once in a while we get a monkey that comes by from Telkom Speedy - that doesn't happen in a lot of other places, like Karengasam and Bulelelang" admits Mr ????, who adds that internet connectivity, while improving to around 1994 standards, continues to be a problem in 2014." :distant:

 

[gilbert de jong]

looks a lot like that other article that was discussed not so long ago..."working in paradise" or something like that.

Anyways, another Silly-Con has found it's way to Indonesia...." It's not business, you don't sell something, It's not a Piramide-system, you don't have to sign-up people, It's not MLM (multi level marketing).....It is....MMM "
Have no idea how long it is already running here in Indonesia/Bali, but last week was the first time I heard about it from a Balinese friend...who ofcourse joined :hypnotysed: because of the guaranteed 30%-55% growth/ROI per month...

 

[ferdie]

Actually I've known some of the guys in these articles for the past months
New breed of people with tech skills that might work anywhere in the world as long as internet is around:icon_wink:

 

[Markit]

Get in now and out in 2 weeks or kiss the dosh goodbye.

 

[Smoke]

Actually I've known some of the guys in these articles for the past months
New breed of people with tech skills that might work anywhere in the world as long as internet is around:icon_wink:

now no name dropping or assumptions please :icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:

 

[davita]

Actually I've known some of the guys in these articles for the past months
New breed of people with tech skills that might work anywhere in the world as long as internet is around:icon_wink:

New breed of people...that is exciting...what breed are they...hopefully they aren't from the mangy dog breed my security man took home last week and is fattening for a feast...he's Timorese!

tech skills...is this novel...I learned tech skills between 1952 and 1955 and have continued that learning till present day.

work anywhere in the world...who wouldn't and hasn't...... given a work permit (RI requirement), decent salary and conditions of employment.

internet is around....Bali has one of the worst/slowest internet connectivity in SE Asia!

So...what else is new...or, is nothing really new...just a natural progression in time?

 

[calitobali]

Not really sure what the point of all the negative comments is. These people are simply utilizing technology to create start ups which they hope will enhance the lives of their users while making them some money at the same time. They've chosen Bali to do so because they enjoy the lifestyle the island of Bali provides.

If the internet works well enough for them, why bash them for it?

 

[Markit]

Agreed Cali - my problem is not with the people doing it but with the reporting that paints a too simplistic picture of the real problems involved and leaves, at least for me, most of my questions unanswered:

Visa situation? (same place Corby gets hers?)
Internet connectivity?
etc.

Coming from San Jose (the real Silicon Valley) back in the day I know what a start up needs - a damned good idea, access to other starters and lots and lots of support and money.

Frankly it would be wonderful if Bali could branch out and become another start up haven and get away from the tourist industry. The process has nothing but up-side for the community - educational, taxes (see above), knock-on and support industries like printing, marketing and legal.

I guess it could happen - we did meet some young American software guys working on their Chinese start up here in Bali but more of get away from the noise of China to concentrate on the details than really basing it here.

Keeping my eyes open.

Markit

 

[ferdie]

Davita, these guys are into online marketing, consultancy and computer or website programming mostly
Basically they receive order from clients all over the world or selling their own product in the online world, but I'm didn't really know the details and don't really need to know :icon_e_biggrin:
Its hard to tell that they need work permit because the job that they do is still not recognized in Indonesia

 

[davita]

Fine Ferdie...so...as you seem to know some of these guys for the past few months...perhaps you can enlighten us on what visa they used to enter RI.... and then, while in Bali, work and make money.

 

[Smoke]

davita if they are local people and have a PT extablish why would they need a visa or a work permit.

One of my close local friends ( he my sponsor on my sosbuds and legal owner of 2 of my vehicles) is doing this.

 

[Markit]

Lets all be clear on one thing> where there is a stupid law there will be clever people.

Governments a whole lot smarter and faster than the one here in Indonesia are scrambling to try and tax/regulate/govern this new "economy".

I hope and pray that none of them manage it and frankly it's beginning to look like I'm gonna be lucky - thank you Mr. Wikileaks/Snowden.

Not to get too upmyself but that's what's gonna make us all "free" IMHO.

 

[davita]

davita if they are local people and have a PT extablish why would they need a visa or a work permit.

One of my close local friends ( he my sponsor on my sosbuds and legal owner of 2 of my vehicles) is doing this.

If the people doing this business are WNI then, of course, perfectly OK.....and good for them to be so enterprising.

I thought the article from the BBC implied that foreigners were setting up internet marketing stores and doing business in Bali, while simultaneously enjoying the Bali lifestyle.
If I'm wrong....then I'm sorry and I'll bow out of this thread.

Ferdie seems to know some of these people so maybe he can enlighten us to their WNI or WNA status.

 

[Markit]

If the people doing this business are WNI then, of course, perfectly OK.....and good for them to be so enterprising.

I thought the article from the BBC implied that foreigners were setting up internet marketing stores and doing business in Bali, while simultaneously enjoying the Bali lifestyle.
If I'm wrong....then I'm sorry and I'll bow out of this thread.

Ferdie seems to know some of these people so maybe he can enlighten us to their WNI or WNA status.

Help me out here please: wtf is wni or wna and why do you give a flying feck what other people are doing to circumvent the stupid regs/laws governing residency/working/living here in Bali?

Davita did someone make you the official Bule regulator while we were all having fun drinking beer and chasing pussy?

"Bow out" of your weird fecking attitude.

 

[davita]

Help me out here please: wtf is wni or wna and why do you give a flying feck what other people are doing to circumvent the stupid regs/laws governing residency/working/living here in Bali?

Davita did someone make you the official Bule regulator while we were all having fun drinking beer and chasing pussy?

"Bow out" of your weird fecking attitude.

There you go again markit...believing your own verbiage that you are GOD. You're not.... you are just rude and applying bully-boy tactics. Has that ever worked before?

You keep telling everyone of your experience of living in Bali and yet not aware that a WNI is an Indonesian Citizen....odd! Also, I'm attempting to establish how a foreigner can work in Bali without a work permit...... 'coz my wife has a job waiting if only she could.

My post was in response to Smoke's question and I'm not rude to not respond.

You were the OP...if you don't like the responses why post in the first place...Oh! I remember...you think you are God!

 

[calitobali]

These people are WNA.

As I've addressed in another thread, there is no visa in Indonesia that covers these type of people, because they are in such a grey area and very few governments have come to recognize people working in this way.

I also know who these people are, and can say:

Their customers aren't in Indonesia
Their income isn't in Indonesian Rupiah
They don't get involved in local business, it's all handled online

Basically the only thing about their business that has anything to do with Indonesia, is that they happen to be here while they manage their business which is registered well outside of Indonesia. They make money in dollars, and spend a good deal of it in Rupiah. Despite the government's visa laws, they definitely like you bringing money into Indonesia from outside of the country.

If you can find me even a single example of someone getting the book thrown at them for managing or working on their foreign online business while in Bali, I'll be more sympathetic to your arguments. Otherwise it seems you are suggesting these business owners should either stay in their home countries at all time, or refrain from checking their laptops and emails when they are away from their home countries.

As for your wife, if she is a WNA, and would like to be employed on the ground in Bali at a local business, then she would need the correct visa. The difference would be, she is (arguably) taking a job a local could perform, and being paid in IDR.

 

[ferdie]

I think @Calito has answer most of the stuff himself :icon_wink:
For example: That guy Peter is operating Hubud (operating legally) where people can meet up and collaborate their idea and skill with others.
Most of the work are done virtually for clients or buyer or boss abroad and the law in Indonesia has never recognized this kind of work yet to even tax them
I'll give you an example:
This guy Mat makes an app and sells them in appstore, he develop it himself at his free time and sell it virtually and the payment goes to his account overseas. He withdraws the money through the ATM machine and spends it lavishly here.
Which govt will say he took locals job? Which govt will tax him if they didn't even know how many hours he spent on working those codes? Which govt will not be happy if he pays the visa cost and use local accommodation and services?
The list goes on and on, this kind of jobs are not bound to any location and works just by internet correspondence, they are selling ideas instead of tangible service or product, so the officials didn't even know how it works :icon_e_surprised:
Please remember one thing also, I'm a born and raised Indonesian, even I am happy about their existence because they also do knowledge sharing regularly for free and not even limited to fellow expats but also for locals, maybe not all of their abilities but its a great gesture.
In my opinion, the work permit rules are basically create to protect local jobs for local workers, so no harm no foul until now

 

[davita]

Thank you for the explanation calitobali. I'm not arguing the case of RI's stupid laws...far from it...but I will share what a Lawyer explained to me...

We presented that same argument when we were investigating how to get my wife a work permit (WP) to the specialist Immigration Lawyer employed by the Agent that provides our Kitas'. Mine is retirement and I sponsor my wife. We asked if, as a consultant, she could be paid overseas, similar to those who use internet business while in Bali on Sosbud/Tourist visas, as it seems a grey area. He said it isn't a grey area but just one that the government, so far, has not paid much attention. I assume for the very economic reasons you described.
He did opine that if it got 'out of hand' you would see the government comply with RI's WP regulations....as has happened with some teachers in Jakarta.

I do recall a year or so ago an elderly British lady, here in Bali on a legal Kitas/WP, was turned over to Immigration for not complying with her WP. She worked in a Spa but moonlighted with some of the clients at her home. She was charged with the 'crime' of working outside the WP function...she received ? months jail (mostly time served) and was deported.

Similarly I suggest, if the RI Immigration wanted, they could show that there is a difference between being on holiday and checking on one's business back home than running a business whilst sojourning in Bali...as was the genesis of the article markit posted....without mentioning the possible repercussions. Seems to me much like Realtors aren't very forthcoming about foreigner's title to the property they wish to sell, and make commission.
Also, it could be concluded that those foreigners working as internet marketeers are taking work from WNI. Smoke said he knows some WNI doing exactly the same work.
My wife's qualifications are not available in Bali....that's the only reason the employer wanted to hire her.

Nonetheless, when the lawyer told us of the new harsh penalties for WNA working in RI without a WP, or for the function the WP permitted, we declined to continue with our project.

Ferdie...you must have posted while I was writing...I nearly wet myself as I quickly read you saying the Company was called Hubud...I thought Hudud....which is Islamic punishment for crimes and includes amputation...I thought lucky these guys operate outside af Sharia ....might have their 'hard drive' cut in half...:icon_e_biggrin:

 

[Smoke]

@ Davita just follow the rules and regulations to get your wife the required work permit ( I think she needs the company to sponsor her Kitas and then pay $1,200. USD CASH( no reciept given) to Jakarta along with the regular fees for it all .I am sure they would approve your wifes ( as she was indo) work permit.