Villas of Bali ™ is the trusted real estate company that offers the most beautiful villas for sale on Bali. Visit our experienced and helpful staff in our office in Seminyak, or search the extensive villa listing online at www.balivillasales.com, providing the most exclusive properties for sale. Villas of Bali ™ stands for quality, integrity and trust. We help you save time and money, while providing you peace of mind of your property related needs. Send us an email to info@villasofbali.com, or call us at +62 878 6249 3526.

  1. Welcome Guest to the new look Balipod. If you are an existing member, just sign up with your usual username/password. Any problems you can post them here
    Dismiss Notice

Retirement Visa from Australia to Bali

Discussion in 'Bali Visa Questions and Answers' started by homeinbali, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. homeinbali

    homeinbali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm after some up to date information on the Retirement Visa to Bali. What's needed, by whom, how much and where to apply? We are in Perth, Australia, 57 and 58, both Australians. Have been to Bali many times, have a place to live over there and hoping we have enough finances to carry us through to Australian Retirement Age or Superannuation will run out quicker than we expect! My other question is about the Centrelink Age Pension and receiving it in Bali, is there a time limit to have lived in Australia before being able to receive it?
     
  2. davita

    davita Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    13
    Cannot help with your Australian Pension questions...others will, I'm sure, provide info on that.

    The Indonesian Retirement Visa requires a registered agent to make the application on your behalf. They act as sponsors. There are a number of requirements so I suggest you select an agent you are comfortable with...beware there are some shady ones...and they will go through all those requirements such as employing local staff etc. The agent will take care of all that but it isn't cheap. As both of you are foreigners I would expect around AUD1,200-1,400 each. There is another way where one uses a retirement kitas then sponsors the other spouse...imo that is a troublesome route but could be cheaper.

    If approved you will be issued an ITAS from the RI Consulate in Perth and on arrival in Bali it will be converted to a Retirement Kitas and a multi-entry permit (MERP). This lasts 1 year and then has to be renewed but within Indonesia...no need to leave.
    After you receive Kitas No.3 you can apply for the Kitap...which lasts 5 years.
     
  3. SusanSydney

    SusanSydney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can answer the last question (will leave the first questions to an Indonesian consultant that specialises in "Kitas Pensiun").

    Yes you must be "Resident in Australia" for the two years leading up to applying for an Age Pension (in order for the pension to be " portable".)

    As i think you have guessed, a number of Aussies have been caught out that way - thinking that they have enough Super/savings to last until 65 and then discovering their Application for Age Pension gets approved but they're not allowed to take it overseas with them because of the residency qualification.

    Without boring you to death, i am so interested in this, that i spent a lot of time a while ago downloading all sorts of cases from the Administrative Appeals Tribunal of Australia, because that seemed the most logical way to find out the most current definitions/ grey areas of the Social Security Act in relation to "Australian Resident" definitions. ( i am hoping to get to Bali before i turn Pension Age (67 in my case, as in yours) and despite having spent the entire 57 years of my life in Aus, would be rejected if i did what i wish to do! So, working out what wiggle room there is to "kind of" live in Bali without actually doing so by the Act's definition. Tricky!

    If you're interested, i will try to summarise some of the cases that i believe would be relevant - probably not safe for me to try giving an opinion in such a challenging area!!
     
    #3 SusanSydney, Mar 15, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  4. SusanSydney

    SusanSydney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can i just clarify something - when you say "we are both Australians" and ask "is there a time limit to have lived in Aus before receiving the pension" does that mean you have lived in Aus all your lives? Reason i ask is that if you have lived Elsewhere for instance, for say, 20 years, and therefore between the ages of 16 and 65 you have not been in Aus for a total of 35 years then your pension may be reduced. And of course if you haven't lived in Aus for at least 10 years of that time, you may not qualify for an Aus pension at all.

    In reading your question at first, i assumed you were asking about the time limit for being able to take your pension overseas, because that's where the two years comes in.
     
  5. SusanSydney

    SusanSydney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    Section 1220 of the Act provides, in effect, that where a person has ceased to be an Australian resident and becomes a resident again there is no portability of their age pension for 2 years.

    This is the one that catches people out because if you've been in Bali for a few years and they decide you have ceased to be an Australian resident, then when you come back to Australia to lodge your pension application you are classified as a "returning former Australian resident"' meaning you then have to wait in Australia for two years before being allowed to go overseas and stll claim your pension. I guess in the past it may have been easier to trick them due to manual records of travel but now of course it's a click of a mouse for them to know exactly the dates you were in and out of the country from the Immigration and Border Protection records. It's hilarious really reading cases where people have lodged applications claiming they were on Aus most of the preceding 4 years, and then the records say they came to Aus twice, once for 8 days and once for 15 days!
     
  6. SusanSydney

    SusanSydney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    Subsection 7(3) of the Act prescribes a number of mandatory considerations for determining whether a person resides in Australia and states as follows:

    In deciding for the purposes of this Act whether or not a person is residing in Australia, regard must be had to:

    (a) the nature of the accommodation used by the person in Australia; and
    (b) the nature and extent of the family relationships the person has in Australia; and

    (c) the nature and extent of the person's employment; business or financial ties with Australia; and
    (d) the nature and extent of the person's assets located in Australia; and
    (e) any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to remain permanently in Australia.
     
  7. geedee

    geedee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great info Susan..
    You are a genius on this stuff
    I am reading with much interest
    I have been in Australia 30 yrs my wife 14 y/o.
     
  8. homeinbali

    homeinbali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thankyou for your answer, so is that $1,200-$1,400 each year you apply for the ITAS through the agent? We are travelling over in May so can visit some agents then.
     
  9. homeinbali

    homeinbali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for your answer, so if we were to retire to Bali now at 57 & 58, we would have to return to Australia for 2 years prior to 67 & 68 years of age to qualify for the age pension? So we would plan on returning to Australia at my husbands age of 65 and have to stay for 3 years.
     
  10. homeinbali

    homeinbali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    My husband emigrated from UK at the age of 14 and has lived here in Australia since then. I emigrated at age 12 but did return for 2 years at age 17 but since have lived in Australia. We are both Australian Citizens.
     
  11. SusanSydney

    SusanSydney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you were both born after 1 January 1957 then you both have a qualifying age for the pension of 67 years.

    This is unless they change the law in the future.

    For your main question, do you have to return to Aus for a couple of years, on the face of it, i guess the answer is yes. You could return to Aus when you (the younger) are, say, 65, and then when you turn 67 (ie after 2 years of Australian residence) you both can apply for the pension ( stating your full intention of staying in Australia), get the pension, then after a discreet time, start making arrangements to move to Bali. You must not appear to be just going through the motions of being in Australia. An immediate request for portability of the pension as soon as you've been granted it, may raise alarm bells. So you would usually be expected to be ready with a reason why you now want approval for portability when only last month you told them you were staying in Australia.

    If it sounds complicated, it is. For some reason they seem to dislike people taking their pensions overseas. I don't think other coutries are like that. You'd think we'd all be less of a burden on the Australian taxpayer, as we won't be using hospitals, roads,etc.

    The reason i myself am going into it in a bit more detail, researching cases etc, is that i'm thinking of not completely moving to Bali until i am of pension age. I might just go over there and start leasing land, building, etc while taking steps that conform with the Australian regulations concerning "residence". For instance, stlll owning a house in Aus and returning to it frequently, stiil having most of my money here, filling in my boarding passes as a returning Australian resident, only renting for short periods in Bali, not long leases of a year, and of course my husband will probably still be more in Sydney than Bali because he is 5 years younger than me and has no real interest in retiring early. So that will be a big factor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you were both born after 1 January 1957 then you both have a qualifying age for the pension of 67 years.

    This is unless they change the law in the future.

    For your main question, do you have to return to Aus for a couple of years, on the face of it, i guess the answer is yes. You could return to Aus when you (the younger) are, say, 65, and then when you turn 67 (ie after 2 years of Australian residence) you both can apply for the pension ( stating your full intention of staying in Australia), get the pension, then after a discreet time, start making arrangements to move to Bali. You must not appear to be just going through the motions of being in Australia. An immediate request for portability of the pension as soon as you've been granted it, may raise alarm bells. So you would usually be expected to be ready with a reason why you now want approval for portability when only last month you told them you were staying in Australia.

    If it sounds complicated, it is. For some reason they seem to dislike people taking their pensions overseas. I don't think other coutries are like that. You'd think we'd all be less of a burden on the Australian taxpayer, as we won't be using hospitals, roads,etc.

    The reason i myself am going into it in a bit more detail, researching cases etc, is that i'm thinking of not completely moving to Bali until i am of pension age. I might just go over there and start leasing land, building, etc while taking steps that conform with the Australian regulations concerning "residence". For instance, stlll owning a house in Aus and returning to it frequently, stiil having most of my money here, filling in my boarding passes as a returning Australian resident, only renting for short periods in Bali, not long leases of a year, and of course my husband will probably still be more in Sydney than Bali because he is 5 years younger than me and has no real interest in retiring early. So that will be a big factor.
     
  12. Markit

    Markit Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    14
    Your wife is 14 years old? She does look a bit older, you old dog you!
     
  13. Markit

    Markit Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    14
    My agent has just completed the visa for my wife and he has done mine several times over the years. The going price now is 8 juta (million Rupiah) plus 2 juta for the multi entry and exit visa. All you will need is a valid passport and 2 pictures and some dosh - oh, and the agent in Singapore will need S$280 for his services too.

    I will happily put you in contact with my agent as you won't find anyone cheaper/better on the island and lots worse.
     
  14. Fred2

    Fred2 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    0
    You must remember thousand of people come to Australia simply for the pension, work (10yrs) till they turn 65 then go home and live on the Australian pension. The government had to put there foot down sometime. The government struggles to pay the disability pension to people in Thailand and Bali so they had to toughen the rules for old age pension. Or maybe they just shoot us when we turn 70??
     
  15. Markit

    Markit Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    14
    So if you work for just 10 years in Oz you are eligible for a full pension? Wow! How easy is it to get a work permit?
     
  16. davita

    davita Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    13
    There is no set fee...agents seem to charge what they think they can get. It is an annual fee until you apply for the Kitap. The multi-entry permit is now mandatory and co-incides with the Kitas but is usually separately costed.
    I'd PM Markit for his agent's contact.....sounds like a good deal.

    edit: I should clarify...the Government has a set fee for a Kitas and for a 1 year MERP but, as a retirement kitas is mandated to be applied using a registered agent for that purpose, they can charge anything they like. I suggest shopping around.
    A spousal kitas, on the other hand, can be DIY and is considerably cheaper.
     
    #16 davita, Mar 15, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  17. SusanSydney

    SusanSydney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    I haven't checked if you would get a full pension after being here for 10 years. But I do know that, if you did, you certainly wouldn't be able to take it all and live overseas then. Because there is a thing called "Proportional portability" which kicks in if you haven't spent 35 years of your working life here. So after the first 26 weeks overseas they start reducing it based on a formula that includes how much of your working life was spent in Oz. They introduced this some years ago using the 25 year rule, and then more recently changed it to 35 years!

    Until the 1980's, that rule didn't apply, so we had many Greek and Italian migrants who had come out post war, worked all of their working lives here, and when they got their pension, just went to retire back home. Which was fair enough. Those are the ones you'd have tapped for a loan during the Greek financial problems - all those lovely Australian dollars coming in to their bank accounts regularly! I wish it was still that easy.

    I'm just going to bed now but tomorrow I will do some rough calculations for Geedee and his wife as an example (since he was so kind as to tell me that he's been in Oz for 30 years, and his wife has been here for 14 years).

    Watch this space!
     
  18. Fred2

    Fred2 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    0
    Markit you hope in a boat row to Australia, stay on the welfare system, never work and at 65 you get a old age pension. Australia has a great system, now someone has to pay for it. I have work in Australia for over 35 years, move to Surabaya and still pay tax in Australia, but classed as a non resident so I can go back to Australia when I'm 67 and be paid the full pension, but I have to live back in Australia for 2 years before I can return to Surabaya and continue to receive the pension.
     
  19. no.idea

    no.idea Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    0
    Before this thread goes to **** like all our threads normally do, let us stop asking questions about Gee Dee's 14 year old wife.
    The info by SusanSydney is spot on. I know all the facts on this and it is great to see someone posting the real story and the correct rules. I could kiss you SusanSydney, it is refreshing to see someone posting facts not bloody rumours.
    In my case by the time I qualify for the Oz aged Pension I will have lived in Indonesia for 20 years. So I have to return to Oz for the 2 year qualification period.
    I became aware of this 5 years ago and to offset that I started a cooking school in my hotel. The cooking school is currently taking $100,000 per year.
    There is more than one way to skin a cat.
     
  20. geedee

    geedee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok ok I should double check my posts as my wife much older than 14y/o wife says you rush everything
    Wonder what she means?
     
    #20 geedee, Mar 16, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
Loading...

Share This Page