Property values and timing the market

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Garuda

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May 2, 2022
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New member here with three questions that I didn't manage to find comprehensive answers to in the various forums. Recent advice gained from reading related threads is to buy existing and I tend to lean toward that.

1. I would assume that COVID has affected the property market in Bali and that now would be as good a time as any to buy in. Is it a buyer's market? How long until the opportunity disappears in your opinion? After high-season this year or next? Perhaps longer?

2. My wife and I are looking for a 3 bedroom detached house/villa either around one of the villages in Lovina, or on the east coast of Bali (beach preferable to cliff face coastline, i.e. Padangbai). Pool not needed but bonus if has. Detached with a small garden. Budget is circa. IDR 1.5 billion turnkey. Is this doable.

3. I'll be working remotely online so excellent internet is required, e.g. enough to conduct online meetings with no interruptions except in exceptional circumstances. Is this a deal breaker in the two areas specified above?

Any input greatly appreciated and payable in Bintang tokens on arrival.
 

spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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1. I would say yes and no. It just depends on how much the owner needs money and if they are willing to sell at a lower price. I would move to an area you like and spend at least 6 months looking for a property. Definitely don't buy until you have a good feeling of the market.

2. I think the budget is low for absolute beachfront. You might find something around Air Sanih, or Seririt for that price (not sure about Padang Bai. Ask @Markit for that)

3. Biznet is the best option in the north. Internet speeds have improved dramatically and you shouldn't have too many problems. You can use 4G as a backup if your provider is ever down, which of course happens from time to time.
 
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Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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A friend of mine just closed a 5 year lease on the perfect (for him) business property from someone that was desperate for money - there's plenty of them about now. He finagled a payment plan stretching over 10 years for the full 25 year lease.

I suspect there are lots of deals around for existing properties because they've been neglected over the last 2/3/5 years (bear in mind we've had a string of shit luck here since 2017 the volcano announced his existence, then earthquakes on Lombok and of course a small pandemic. Just go to an area you find interesting and stay a while. Let the staff know you are in the market and they will romp up with some properties belonging to family members and friends. They are all after the 5% commission and there's nothing wrong with that. BUT if you don't see what asked for after viewing 2 properties move on.

Personally I don't like the North of Bali very much. Lovina is on life support and not expected to survive and I find it very, very hot up there and the ocean boring (like the Med or a shallow bath).

Ubud is lovely during the pandemic and I will miss the empty streets and quiet composure - now it's starting to get horrible again. Expensive, crowded and full of pretentious tree huggers and yoga assholes with drones and cameras on 24/7.

Padang Bai ditto full of assholes - they are really a strange bunch there. Port people and ready to fight all the time at the drop of a Udeng.

My money is on either Tabanan or Karangasem (obviously) as the best places to live here.

Maybe just take a longterm lease on an efficiency apartment (in a small compound with staff and all you could want). That way you can come and go as you please and the place will be looked after.
 
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JackStraw

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Mar 14, 2017
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A friend of mine just closed a 5 year lease on the perfect (for him) business property from someone that was desperate for money - there's plenty of them about now. He finagled a payment plan stretching over 10 years for the full 25 year lease.

I suspect there are lots of deals around for existing properties because they've been neglected over the last 2/3/5 years (bear in mind we've had a string of shit luck here since 2017 the volcano announced his existence, then earthquakes on Lombok and of course a small pandemic. Just go to an area you find interesting and stay a while. Let the staff know you are in the market and they will romp up with some properties belonging to family members and friends. They are all after the 5% commission and there's nothing wrong with that. BUT if you don't see what asked for after viewing 2 properties move on.

Personally I don't like the North of Bali very much. Lovina is on life support and not expected to survive and I find it very, very hot up there and the ocean boring (like the Med or a shallow bath).

Ubud is lovely during the pandemic and I will miss the empty streets and quiet composure - now it's starting to get horrible again. Expensive, crowded and full of pretentious tree huggers and yoga assholes with drones and cameras on 24/7.

Padang Bai ditto full of assholes - they are really a strange bunch there. Port people and ready to fight all the time at the drop of a Udeng.

My money is on either Tabanan or Karangasem (obviously) as the best places to live here.

Maybe just take a longterm lease on an efficiency apartment (in a small compound with staff and all you could want). That way you can come and go as you please and the place will be looked after.

Sorry to burst your bubble Markit but Tabanan is well on its way to being fucked too (unless you head for the hills). I was just over there looking at some property for fun the other week and came across the Ciputra Beach Club development. I went to the marketing office for some info and essentially it's 3 luxury, gated communities, and a beach resort. These are all being marketed to upper-class Javanese as 2nd homes. That's because the brand new toll roll is currently being built right in that area and once the bridge over Gilimanuk to Java is complete, I suspect the rest of that region will be similar developments all the way up the west coast.

The marketing guy said a large mall, several beach clubs and apartment complexes are also planned nearby soon. For me, I don't mind the development. It's good for investments. For those not ready for Bali to become a sprawling metropolis, then fortunately for you, there are over 17,000 islands in this archipelago for you to choose from.
 

britoo

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Sep 11, 2018
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Sorry to burst your bubble Markit but Tabanan is well on its way to being fucked too (unless you head for the hills). I was just over there looking at some property for fun the other week and came across the Ciputra Beach Club development. I went to the marketing office for some info and essentially it's 3 luxury, gated communities, and a beach resort. These are all being marketed to upper-class Javanese as 2nd homes. That's because the brand new toll roll is currently being built right in that area and once the bridge over Gilimanuk to Java is complete, I suspect the rest of that region will be similar developments all the way up the west coast.

The marketing guy said a large mall, several beach clubs and apartment complexes are also planned nearby soon. For me, I don't mind the development. It's good for investments. For those not ready for Bali to become a sprawling metropolis, then fortunately for you, there are over 17,000 islands in this archipelago for you to choose from.

Agree

I see the same thing - the cancerous rot of Canggu appears to have spread rapidly Northwards, jumped over Tanah Lot, and is creeping its way up the coast faster than I had anticipated.

Not for me, but for many nirvana. Bali's unstoppable future is now set and Bali 2.0 will look like Bali 1.0 on steroids.

Nothing learned sigh.
 
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JackStraw

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Mar 14, 2017
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Agree

I see the same thing - the cancerous rot of Canggu appears to have spread rapidly Northwards, jumped over Tanah Lot, and is creeping its way up the coast faster than I had anticipated.

Not for me, but for many nirvana. Bali's unstoppable future is now set and Bali 2.0 will look like Bali 1.0 on steroids.

Nothing learned sigh.

Haha it's funny you say that. I was just speaking to some people in various villages north west of Canggu (like Seseh, Munggu, etc) they all despise Canggu and agree how poorly planned that whole region is. They SWEAR when the cancerous rot spreads to their quaint little desa, things will be different however we all know that won't be the case.

The same shady land deals will go down, the same shitty villas will go up and nothing in terms of efficient civil planning will occur (when does it ever in Indonesia?).
 
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Garuda

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May 2, 2022
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1. I would say yes and no. It just depends on how much the owner needs money and if they are willing to sell at a lower price. I would move to an area you like and spend at least 6 months looking for a property. Definitely don't buy until you have a good feeling of the market.

2. I think the budget is low for absolute beachfront. You might find something around Air Sanih, or Seririt for that price (not sure about Padang Bai. Ask @Markit for that)

3. Biznet is the best option in the north. Internet speeds have improved dramatically and you shouldn't have too many problems. You can use 4G as a backup if your provider is ever down, which of course happens from time to time.

This is of great help. Thanks. So, COVID only presents more owners willing to sell at a lower price, but there'll still be a few of those sellers around when COVID's in the rearview mirror too. Conclusion is that it'd likely take less time to find a good place for the right money now(ish) but it's still possible although more difficult and time-consuming later down the line. We'll try not to get too carried away with the first places we see and stick out temporary accommodation until the perfect prospect comes along, then.

My post was poorly written leading you to believe we are after a beachfront place. 10 or 15 minutes walk, ride, or drive from the ocean would be fine for us. Besides a few more shifting tectonic plates and we'll be beachfront anyways haha. We decided to limit the budget to 1.5 M as it will enable us to inevitably rebuild the house twice when it falls down within our lifetimes. Previous Indonesian house living experience has made us extremely pessimistic!

Great to hear the internet has improved up north. That'd have been a deal breaker. Seen a couple of nice places in Seririt online. We'll be headed up for a look around and to dispense beer tokens for sure.

Then Karangasem it is!

We really like the area from what we've managed to see online so perhaps it'll be the first place we check out. Any Padang Bai Jack Sparrow wannabes in the towns further up north on the east coast? Internet not likely to be an issue?
 
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mugwump

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Mar 15, 2011
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I have lived in West Bali for 17 years, and prior 3 years in Ubud, and am perfectly happy in West Bali except for the curse of the terrible highway that links the area to the south for shopping. This fact bears upon the South being the only choice for numerous essentials of life.
That all will change because of the tollroad scheduled to begin construction next month, and although it will require 4 years to complete, a section
will be available as early as this year if on schedule, and thus shortening required time of travel as completions occur.
I differ with others that feel that all is sold out for future development by gated communities. The area is too vast and undeveloped to think that. Besides as segments such as Pekutatan-Soka are completed commercial expansion will follow thus lessening the need for utilizing the captive South.
Costs for labor as well as other essentials are currently cheaper in West Bali, along with real estate construction and maintenance. Land prices will vary, but much is far less currently , and certainly worth checking into, as the physical aspects of the area has much to commend it.
 

AuroraB

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Dec 17, 2021
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I rented a beachfront villa up in Tulamben Kubu (Karangasem) last weekend, part of an old dive resort. The new owner purchased the (leasehold) villa in 2019, did some renovation and now it appears to be back on the market. The other three villas in the complex sold only last year after more than two years on the market. Beachfront is of course nice but I can only guess higher costs to run due to corrosion and to keep soil erosion beachside under control. Constant headache.

Tulamben is nice but fairly close to Mt. Agung. Danger radius during 2017 eruption was up to 9km, while Tulamben is around 11-12km away. Around 90 km by road down to Denpasar, but it takes 2.5 hours even without much traffic...

Below are links for some local web sites for buying & renting villas & land. Use filter to narrow down and google chrome to translate. SHM (Sertifikat Hak Milik, outright land ownership for Indonesian only). Note that many listings are duplicated -- often with price changes over time. For long term rental, agent fee of typically 5% paid by owners. As suggested elsewhere, rent for a few weeks first to figure out if villa and location is any good.

https://www.lamudi.co.id/bali/karangasem/house/buy/

https://www.rumah.com/villa-dijual/di-area-karangasem-idba10003

https://www.rumah123.com/jual/karangasem/rumah/

https://www.olx.co.id/karangasem-ka...men_c5158/q-villa-dijual?filter=type_eq_rumah
 
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Markit

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We really like the area (East Bali) from what we've managed to see online so perhaps it'll be the first place we check out. Any Padang Bai Jack Sparrow wannabes in the towns further up north on the east coast? Internet not likely to be an issue?
Skip Badang Bai or go really early so you'll still have most of the day left when you've quickly left it behind. It's a horrible place so not sure what wild ass stories you've been told or maybe you just like the scummy, ferry employees, mafia vibe?

If you want lots of traditional Bali (customs, dress, friendliness, food) with acess to some western ammenites and expats then Karangasem is the place for you. Internet is a huge bonus since I got here - now all those things you had to spend all day going to fecking awful Denpasar for you can have hand delivered to your house by Tokopedia, Shopee, Blibli, et al.

I recommend you look from Senkidu all the way up to Jasri by Amlapura. Stay away from beachfront, as you so rightly say it's a disaster with erosion and salt - everyone lives on the beach once, then never again.

I have lived in Jasri by Amlapura for 14 years and learned everything I needed to know to make a half way success of it from this forum so utilize the "search" function because it's really all there.

If you want some personal tips drop me a line when your in the area and I'll let you buy the beers ;)
 
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Wolverine

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Mar 14, 2022
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Skip Badang Bai or go really early so you'll still have most of the day left when you've quickly left it behind. It's a horrible place so not sure what wild ass stories you've been told or maybe you just like the scummy, ferry employees, mafia vibe?

If you want lots of traditional Bali (customs, dress, friendliness, food) with acess to some western ammenites and expats then Karangasem is the place for you. Internet is a huge bonus since I got here - now all those things you had to spend all day going to fecking awful Denpasar for you can have hand delivered to your house by Tokopedia, Shopee, Blibli, et al.

I recommend you look from Senkidu all the way up to Jasri by Amlapura. Stay away from beachfront, as you so rightly say it's a disaster with erosion and salt - everyone lives on the beach once, then never again.

I have lived in Jasri by Amlapura for 14 years and learned everything I needed to know to make a half way success of it from this forum so utilize the "search" function because it's really all there.

If you want some personal tips drop me a line when your in the area and I'll let you buy the beers ;)
Hi Mark, what's your thoughts on building /investing in the Balian Beach area?
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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Hi Mark, what's your thoughts on building /investing in the Balian Beach area?
There are others here on the forum that have better experience of the Tabanan area and I will bow to them. About building on a beach in general I would advise you avoid that like a diabetic in a sweet shop.

Beaches are awful to live on, a week or 10 days on holiday is fine but live there? No! Feck no!

Every fool has to do it once in their lives but nobody does it twice. Think salt, sand, loud, windy, erosion, breakers, etc.

Had a neighbor was so happy to have build her "eco" dream of a house on the beach and did all the Feng Shui BS (she wrote books on that shit, how she made her money) saved endless money on building from natural products (bamboo, natural stone, lots of glass- always dirty) but ended up buying 3 sea walls at $50k a pop and had to move out after 5 years. Now house is a very ecological ruin turning into compost. She's back in Ubud with her buds - but poorer.
 

Foamcrest

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Jun 11, 2016
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For what it’s worth we built in Penestanan which a small village located just outside of Ubud. We leased the land for 25 years with a 10 year option. Given that I’m 77 I don’t think I will involved with any of the option negotiations. Ubud is far too busy and too tourist oriented but Penestanan is literally only a 20 minute walk away and then you are in a quiet village with plenty of small warungs to cater for your food and a large Bintang supermarket nearby for home shopping.
The other area that I would love to build in is either Lipah or Lean which are just passed Amed. Very quiet, mainly diving tourists and much cheaper to buy in. Of course the only major shopping is I’m Amlapura quite some distance away.
Thats my 10 cents worth. Good luck.
 

mugwump

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Mar 15, 2011
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Hi Mark, what's your thoughts on building /investing in the Balian Beach area?
Obviously you are either a surfer, or possibly intrigued by the idea as many feel Balian the best beach in Bali for same. Living in West Bali myself can attest to the potential for the area as the development of the new toll road comes about. My advice is to go there and check things out, as it is prime for expansion and future amenities. Historically the area has been bypassed due to remoteness which will soon change. Good luck!
 

Wolverine

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Mar 14, 2022
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Obviously you are either a surfer, or possibly intrigued by the idea as many feel Balian the best beach in Bali for same. Living in West Bali myself can attest to the potential for the area as the development of the new toll road comes about. My advice is to go there and check things out, as it is prime for expansion and future amenities. Historically the area has been bypassed due to remoteness which will soon change. Good luck!
How close to Balian will the new Toll road be?
 

AuroraB

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Dec 17, 2021
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How close to Balian will the new Toll road be?

Search google for: peta jalan tol gilimanuk mengwi

There is an official looking document online issued recently having included a coarse map:
https://www.baliprov.go.id/web/wp-c...BANGUNAN-RUAS-JALAN-TOL-GILIMANUK-MENGWI-.pdf

This document lists all Kecamatan and Desa affected by the new road. Balian beach appears to be part of Desa Lalanglinggah part of Kecamatan Selemadeg Barat. Just paste into google map and you will see exact outline of Kecamatan and Desa.

I added in an arrow showing rough location for Balian beach. Probably best to check with local gov. in the area for exact road location or maybe they have a better map locally.

1651830523571.png
 
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Wolverine

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Search google for: peta jalan tol gilimanuk mengwi

There is an official looking document online issued recently having included a coarse map:
https://www.baliprov.go.id/web/wp-c...BANGUNAN-RUAS-JALAN-TOL-GILIMANUK-MENGWI-.pdf

This document lists all Kecamatan and Desa affected by the new road. Balian beach appears to be part of Desa Lalanglinggah part of Kecamatan Selemadeg Barat. Just paste into google map and you will see exact outline of Kecamatan and Desa.

I added in an arrow showing rough location for Balian beach. Probably best to check with local gov. in the area for exact road location or maybe they have a better map locally.

View attachment 3629
Thanks for that.