Possible jail time for fixing projector

[Markit]

The Brits base their entire system on precedent going back to 1066 so that would be a little difficult for a country that's only existed since 47. Course It wouldn't take long to do a back search.

Problem is that the laws here are based on the written law which seem to be very badly written in terms of delimiters and range. Top that off with the fact that almost no 2 cases are even similar so then you get stupid stuff like the blasphemy laws and property ownership, to name but 2 of the many.

 

[Atlantis]

Common sense does occasionally triumph here too! Wonder if his costs will be re-reimbursed? Prob not.

Does this sort of thing have any wider implications within the agencies mentioned? Prob not.

In order to get his costs reimbursed he should sue Immigration to PTUN, the administrative court. This is something which maybe worth trying if you have some spare time and money to put in it.

However, I doubt it'd be wise to do it in his case. For your information, at the time of arrest, the accused was on overstay for something like 5 months if I remember well.

It is one thing to ridicule an immigration officer. It's a whole different thing to go after the Institution. If you do so, you'd better make sure that it doesn't bite you back if you are/were not 100% legit.

 

[Markit]

In order to get his costs reimbursed he should sue Immigration to PTUN, the administrative court. This is something which maybe worth trying if you have some spare time and money to put in it.

However, I doubt it'd be wise to do it in his case. For your information, at the time of arrest, the accused was on overstay for something like 5 months if I remember well.

It is one thing to ridicule an immigration officer. It's a whole different thing to go after the Institution. If you do so, you'd better make sure that it doesn't bite you back if you are/were not 100% legit.

No and never would I consider suing the Immigration Services. My remark about implications for the agency were more directed at possible governmental slapping of leggies for doing stupid and wasteful things like taking someone to court for fixing a projector.

 

[BestofBali]

The boat is owned by a group of Italians and immigration officers just happened to be on board. Were they tipped off?

That certainly would seem to be the case.

 

[spicyayam]

I saw this on Facebook some time ago. It seems like this guy was arrested again at the airport when he tried to leave the country and was being held at immigration detention in Bali.

https://www.change.org/p/liberate-carmine-sciaudone-firma-la-petizione

I hope he has since been released.

@Atlantis do you know anything about the case?

 

[sherm]

So does one open the possibility of arrest if for instance you volunteer to beach clean-up?

 

[Markit]

So does one open the possibility of arrest if for instance you volunteer to beach clean-up?

In theory I don't think so. I don't know so but I would suggest that a bunch of unpaid volunteers walking along a beach picking up trash could hardly be construed as employment. I'll ask some of these guys

 

[Nydave]

Check out this site,,sorry I don't know how to copy it so im trying instead,,its quite interesting,,,

Indonesiaexpat.biz/other/volunteering-in-Indonesia,

 

[Nydave]

Sorry guys TYPING instead,

 

[ronb]

Thanks Altantis for this info. I respect the judges here, and I also respected the decision in the Sarah Connor case. I cannot find an online account of the final outcome you refer to but I did find an account of some trial details in October at http://balinewsnetwork.com/2016/10/14/salahgunakan-izin-tinggal-bule-italia-terancam-dipenjara-5-tahun/

Which Google translates as
Denpasar / BeliNewsNetwork-After the pretrial lawsuit was rejected by the Denpasar District Court judge, an Italian Italian named Carmine Sciaudone (33) sat as the defendant in Denpasar District Court. The defendant who was accompanied by lawyer M. Rifan et al was charged with intentionally abusing or doing activities that were not according to his residence permit.

The hearing was on the agenda of examining witnesses. Even the Public Prosecutor (Prosecutor) I Gusti Ayu Rai Atini and Agus Suraharta already present witnesses from Immigration. In front of the hearing, the Immigration Officer's witness confirmed that he was arresting the defendant based on the evidence in the videotape and a number of photographs when the defendant performed an activity on the Dragon 310 Ship. In addition, Franceco Baffa, who was a fellow defendant, was also presented at the hearing.

Attorney Gusti Ayu Rai Atini who had met strongly denied that the case against the defendant was only because the defendant connected a cable to a projector device.

"The case is not that simple. The defendant is in addition to violating the residence permit, residence permit owned also no longer valid, "said Rai Antini who was met in the chambers room, Thursday (13/10).

As stated in the prosecutor's indictment read out before the panel of judges. Yanto said the defendant was arrested by the Immigration officer for allegedly deliberately misusing the residence permit. In addition, the residence permit of the defendant since 8 February 2016 is no longer valid. Also called, the defendant came to Indonesia by using visa on arrival (VOA). The purpose of the defendant to Indonesia is to travel and study Balinese culture.

"While in Bali, the defendant moved around. Even the defendant had time to visit Gili Trawangan, "said the prosecutor in his dakwaanya.

While in Gili Trawangan, the defendant met a man named Franceco Baffa through Piedro.

"At the meeting, Peidro had told Baffa that the defendant was in a state of depression and wanted to work on the Dragon 130 Ship," said the prosecutor from Kejari Denpasar.

Known, Baffa is a former marketing advisor on the ship Dragon 130. Starting from the introduction, Baffa and defendants continue to establish communication. Baffa who feel sorry, invites the defendant to participate in a party that was held on board the Dragon 130, Sunday, May 22, 2016.

At the party, the defendant who has video director skills, was entrusted to be the projector operator by connecting the cable to the laptop he was carrying. As revealed in the indictment, the defendant's activity as a projector operator is a work activity to produce services.

This is not in accordance with the VOA or permission of the visit given to the defendant. For the act, the defendant was charged with Article 122 letter a of Law no. 6 Year 2011 on Immigration with a maximum penalty of 5 years imprisonment and a fine of Rp 500 million. (Pro)

 

[DenpasarHouse]

Thanks very much RonB, it helps me sleep at night knowing that it's not as arbitrary as it first seemed.

 

[JohnnyCool]

In theory I don't think so. I don't know so but I would suggest that a bunch of unpaid volunteers walking along a beach picking up trash could hardly be construed as employment. I'll ask some of these guys View attachment 2931

My understanding is that volunteering is a form of work in Indonesia. Volunteers need to be very careful in case the visa they’re on disallows working here. Whether it’s paid or unpaid “work” is irrelevant.

Many established charity-like groups invite and accept foreign volunteers and ensure that the visa requirements are not violated. The volunteer becomes a temporary employee.

Even people who are fully employed legally need to be careful since the work they’re allowed to do might not include volunteering. If you’re a chef, for example, and decide to join a volunteer beach cleanup, you might be seen by immigration as having two “jobs”.

 

[Mark]

So, is this case really an issue of entering on the wrong visa, and then overstaying? Because I still don't get that plugging in a projector can be considered 'working'. This would imply that a tourist who, for example, moves their spouse's lounge chair or adjusts the umbrella at the hotel pool is working, since an Indonesian can do that service. And what about giving a friend a lift on the motorbike? Also working, right, since it is producing a service (transportation) and takes away a job for a local driver. This is insanity. If the case really hinged on the 'work' element of plugging in a projector as opposed to the overstay, then the immigration hasn't a clue what the appropriate policy should be regarding the definition of 'work', and seemingly maintain the right to arbitrarily enforce an ambiguous law whenever it suits them. Trash heroes and other do-gooders be warned.

 

[Nydave]

If you guys check out the website I recommended you will very quickly find out all you need to know about volunteering Ri,

 

[Mark]

Yes, I saw it, so many (most) trash heroes as well as John Hardy's band of trash walkers are indeed at risk of arrest, detention and deportation unless they have the correct visa sponsored by a charitable organization. According to the article it must be a work Kitas and the employer must be paying the required tax. Looking forward to the PR shit storm that will happen if immigration pounces on these kindhearted people cleaning up after the locals. I was also interested to read that 'you will not be able to arrive to Indonesia on a tourist visa and legally commit your time to anything that is work related, even if it is unpaid work.' So I'm in Indonesia on holiday and cannot legally read and answer my overseas work related emails, work on an excel spreadsheet or powerpoint, take a conference call etc etc etc because I am on a tourist visa in Indonesia and what I am doing is work related. Seriously, this is total nonsense.

 

[Nydave]

Exactly as you said Mark,according to that article you are in fact breaking the restrictions of your visa by doing anything regarding work back home while in bali,

I`m shocked by how many long term expat residents and long time members of this blog are not aware of this,some have quite openly stated in the past that they are volunteering with school books,garbage etc,,they need to be careful,

 

[Mark]

Upon some further reflection, I wonder how big of an issue this really is with Indonesian immigration - volunteering/working in Bali without a Kitas? The Italian guy seemed screwed from the off because he was an overstayer and maybe he wasn't polite (or contrite) enough so they just threw the rest of the charges in for good measure. After all, not only have the trash heroes not been confronted by immigration (despite many well publicized events), but the 10 or so co-working spaces (Hubud, et al) haven't been raided either as far as I know - and these places are chockablock full of people on voa's and sosbud's beavering away on this or that project, nearly all designed to or actually generating economic value, in other words, working in Indonesia.

 

[Nydave]

Yes but why take the risk in the first place,we all know how it can be here,just because some places haven`t been raided yet doesn`t mean it wont happen,proceed at your own risk right,

 

[Markit]

Thanks for that (I think) fairly depressing read. Guess I'm gonna have to re-evaluate my ecological volunteering... :O(

If you guys check out the website I recommended you will very quickly find out all you need to know about volunteering Ri,

 

[Melati]

In theory I don't think so. I don't know so but I would suggest that a bunch of unpaid volunteers walking along a beach picking up trash could hardly be construed as employment. I'll ask some of these guys View attachment 2931

Sorry, I know this is not the topic, but I wonder where they take all the trash they find on the beaches or around the villages.