Plan for 5 year tourist visa comes at a price

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John M

Member
Sep 29, 2020
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Sanur, Bali
My understanding is the B211A is not available offshore. Only the B211B. Onshore visa's can certainly be B211A
Apparently the offshore visa processing office opened again on September 15th, it was closed for most of the year during which time no offshore visas of any kind could be processed, but I've no idea if there are any restrictions on what categories of visa can now be applied for from offshore but I've now found the applicable regulation and will need to translate it https://kemlu.go.id/download/L1NoYXJlZCUyMERvY3VtZW50cy9TZ3BGaWxlRG9jL0JOJTIwMTA0NC0yMDIxLnBkZg==

The difference between the B211A and B211B is that the B211B includes the categories of 'Providing guidance, counselling and training in the application and innovation of industrial technology to improve the quality and design of industrial products as well as overseas marketing cooperation, conducting audits, production quality control or inspections at company branches in Indonesia, and prospective foreign workers in trial' and it also requires approval of the Director General of Immigration which the B211A does not. All other requirements are the same.
The more you look the more confusing it becomes o_O
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
209
62
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Apparently the offshore visa processing office opened again on September 15th, it was closed for most of the year during which time no offshore visas of any kind could be processed, but I've no idea if there are any restrictions on what categories of visa can now be applied for from offshore but I've now found the applicable regulation and will need to translate it https://kemlu.go.id/download/L1NoYXJlZCUyMERvY3VtZW50cy9TZ3BGaWxlRG9jL0JOJTIwMTA0NC0yMDIxLnBkZg==

The difference between the B211A and B211B is that the B211B includes the categories of 'Providing guidance, counselling and training in the application and innovation of industrial technology to improve the quality and design of industrial products as well as overseas marketing cooperation, conducting audits, production quality control or inspections at company branches in Indonesia, and prospective foreign workers in trial' and it also requires approval of the Director General of Immigration which the B211A does not. All other requirements are the same.
The more you look the more confusing it becomes o_O


I spoke to my agent and the B211A is definitely Onshore only at the moment. In reality it makes no difference once you arrive.

I can on the B211B and am
Apparently the offshore visa processing office opened again on September 15th, it was closed for most of the year during which time no offshore visas of any kind could be processed, but I've no idea if there are any restrictions on what categories of visa can now be applied for from offshore but I've now found the applicable regulation and will need to translate it https://kemlu.go.id/download/L1NoYXJlZCUyMERvY3VtZW50cy9TZ3BGaWxlRG9jL0JOJTIwMTA0NC0yMDIxLnBkZg==

The difference between the B211A and B211B is that the B211B includes the categories of 'Providing guidance, counselling and training in the application and innovation of industrial technology to improve the quality and design of industrial products as well as overseas marketing cooperation, conducting audits, production quality control or inspections at company branches in Indonesia, and prospective foreign workers in trial' and it also requires approval of the Director General of Immigration which the B211A does not. All other requirements are the same.
The more you look the more confusing it becomes o_O

My agent simply described it that the B211B is seeking opportunities for investment for the future. The rules once you have arrived are identical as John states. I spoke to my agent last week about leaving Indonesia and returning. They stated it was the B211B which was the only visa available at the moment.

It will be interesting to see if that changes on 14th as Bali supposedly opens to the few other countries
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
Hi Britoo;
What I wrote was not that the B211A visa has been removed for the duration of the pandemic but that the Social/Cultural visa category has been removed - it was a long post and it's easy to miss seeing a word that changes the intent of the sentence :).
To clarify a little more the pre-pandemic B211A activities categories were 'Travel, family, socio-cultural, business, government, sports, comparative studies, courses, attending short training, giving lectures, attending seminars, attending meetings, urgent emergency work (natural disasters), transit and joining transportation means in the area of Indonesia'.
For the pandemic period to date they have continued to allow business and government categories, and hence continue the issuing of B211A visas, and have now added the pre-investment category with the release of Regulation 48 and, as stated above, I entered on a B211A visa in April of this year.


my bad for being ambiguous in my reply. My current B211 visa is issued under the "SOCIAL" category as was the last in January and as will be the next at it remains readily available on the immmigration application portal.

The portal itself offers the following categories for application (12/10/2021) from a picklist:
  • TOURISM
  • GOVERNMENTAL SERVICE/DUTY
  • FAMILY
  • JOIN VESSEL IN TERRITORY OF INDONESIA
  • NON-COMMERCIAL SPORT
  • ATTEND INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION
  • LECTURE OR ATTEND SEMINAR
  • SOCIAL
  • PRODUCT PROCUREMENT
  • ATTEND MEETING HELD WITH CENTRAL OR BRANCH OFFICES IN INDONESIA
  • CONTINUE TRAVEL TO OTHER COUNTRY
  • IMMEDIATE AND EMERGENCY WORK
  • BUSINESS TALK
  • ART AND CULTURE
  • COMPARATIVE STUDY, SHORT COURSE AND TRAINING
My understanding does not relate to the regulation directly and is based solely on the immigration visa application workflow.
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
I spoke to my agent and the B211A is definitely Onshore only at the moment. In reality it makes no difference once you arrive.

I can on the B211B and am


My agent simply described it that the B211B is seeking opportunities for investment for the future. The rules once you have arrived are identical as John states. I spoke to my agent last week about leaving Indonesia and returning. They stated it was the B211B which was the only visa available at the moment.

It will be interesting to see if that changes on 14th as Bali supposedly opens to the few other countries

In case its helpful, this is what the application workdlow offers as of this morning:

VISIT / B211A (TOURISM ACTIVITIES, FAMILY, SOCIAL, CULTURE .............) categories
  • TOURISM
  • GOVERNMENTAL SERVICE/DUTY
  • FAMILY
  • JOIN VESSEL IN TERRITORY OF INDONESIA
  • NON-COMMERCIAL SPORT
  • ATTEND INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION
  • LECTURE OR ATTEND SEMINAR
  • SOCIAL
  • PRODUCT PROCUREMENT
  • ATTEND MEETING HELD WITH CENTRAL OR BRANCH OFFICES IN INDONESIA
  • CONTINUE TRAVEL TO OTHER COUNTRY
  • IMMEDIATE AND EMERGENCY WORK
  • BUSINESS TALK
  • ART AND CULTURE
  • COMPARATIVE STUDY, SHORT COURSE AND TRAINING
VISIT / B211B (INDUSTRY VISIT ACTIVITIES) categories
  • COACHING AND COUNSELING AND TRAINING IN IMPLEMENTATION AND INNOVATION IN INDUSTRIAL TECHNOLOGY TO IMPROVE QUALITY AND DESIGN
  • AUDIT, PRODUCT QUALITY CONTROL AND INSPECTION IN BRANCH OFFICES IN INDONESIA
  • CANDIDATES OF FOREIGN WORKER IN ORDER TO ATTEND WORKING SKILL TEST
VISIT / B211C (JOURNALISTIC ACTIVITIES AND NON COMMERCIAL FILMS) categories
  • NON-COMMERCIAL FILM MAKING WITH PERMIT FROM AUTHORIZED AGENCY
  • JOURNALISTIC ACTIVITY WITH PERMIT FROM AUTHORIZED AGENCY
Not really looked at the B as have no need but I understood the only real difference is the business sponsor needs to show prrof of 10kUSD whereas its 2kUSD (up from 1.5) for a social (A) sponsor.
 

John M

Member
Sep 29, 2020
70
51
18
Sanur, Bali
I spoke to my agent and the B211A is definitely Onshore only at the moment. In reality it makes no difference once you arrive.

I can on the B211B and am


My agent simply described it that the B211B is seeking opportunities for investment for the future. The rules once you have arrived are identical as John states. I spoke to my agent last week about leaving Indonesia and returning. They stated it was the B211B which was the only visa available at the moment.

It will be interesting to see if that changes on 14th as Bali supposedly opens to the few other countries
Currently all visa applications are onshore only, and have been since January 2021 I think, because the regulations stipulate that all visa applications must be submitted by the guarantor into the electronic system. All visa types are now available but the
I spoke to my agent and the B211A is definitely Onshore only at the moment. In reality it makes no difference once you arrive.

I can on the B211B and am


My agent simply described it that the B211B is seeking opportunities for investment for the future. The rules once you have arrived are identical as John states. I spoke to my agent last week about leaving Indonesia and returning. They stated it was the B211B which was the only visa available at the moment.

It will be interesting to see if that changes on 14th as Bali supposedly opens to the few other countries.
In case its helpful, this is what the application workdlow offers as of this morning:

VISIT / B211A (TOURISM ACTIVITIES, FAMILY, SOCIAL, CULTURE .............) categories
  • TOURISM
  • GOVERNMENTAL SERVICE/DUTY
  • FAMILY
  • JOIN VESSEL IN TERRITORY OF INDONESIA
  • NON-COMMERCIAL SPORT
  • ATTEND INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION
  • LECTURE OR ATTEND SEMINAR
  • SOCIAL
  • PRODUCT PROCUREMENT
  • ATTEND MEETING HELD WITH CENTRAL OR BRANCH OFFICES IN INDONESIA
  • CONTINUE TRAVEL TO OTHER COUNTRY
  • IMMEDIATE AND EMERGENCY WORK
  • BUSINESS TALK
  • ART AND CULTURE
  • COMPARATIVE STUDY, SHORT COURSE AND TRAINING
VISIT / B211B (INDUSTRY VISIT ACTIVITIES) categories
  • COACHING AND COUNSELING AND TRAINING IN IMPLEMENTATION AND INNOVATION IN INDUSTRIAL TECHNOLOGY TO IMPROVE QUALITY AND DESIGN
  • AUDIT, PRODUCT QUALITY CONTROL AND INSPECTION IN BRANCH OFFICES IN INDONESIA
  • CANDIDATES OF FOREIGN WORKER IN ORDER TO ATTEND WORKING SKILL TEST
VISIT / B211C (JOURNALISTIC ACTIVITIES AND NON COMMERCIAL FILMS) categories
  • NON-COMMERCIAL FILM MAKING WITH PERMIT FROM AUTHORIZED AGENCY
  • JOURNALISTIC ACTIVITY WITH PERMIT FROM AUTHORIZED AGENCY
Not really looked at the B as have no need but I understood the only real difference is the business sponsor needs to show prrof of 10kUSD whereas its 2kUSD (up from 1.5) for a social (A) sponsor.
By way of further information on this rather fluid situation the latest list of support documents for a visit visa (Regulation 48 of 2021, Article 90) is as follows:
  1. Application for a visit visa is submitted by a foreigner or guarantor to the Minister or a designated Immigration Officer by filling out the data application and attaching the following requirements:
    1. valid passport and still valid for at least 6 (six) months;
    2. letter of guarantee from the Guarantor except for visits in the context of tourism;
    3. proof of having living expenses for himself and/or his family while in the Indonesian Territory; My note: An Indonesian guarantor can be used iif the applicant can't show proof of funds.
    4. a return ticket or a connecting ticket to continue the journey to another country except for the crew of the Transport Equipment who will stop by to join the ship and continue the journey to another country; and
    5. colour passport photograph.
      The regulation clarifies what is meant by no. 3. as 'Having living expenses while in the Indonesian Territory is proven by showing a current account, savings book, or time deposit for the last 3 (three) months belonging to the relevant Foreigner or Guarantor (My note: a guarantor can put up the funds instead) which illustrates the existence of a guarantee of sufficient living expenses for himself and/or his family.
      The Indonesian Immigration website https://www.imigrasi.go.id/en/permohonan-visa-republik-indonesia-wisata-b211a/ lists the same amount for both visit visa and business visas (it goes to the same page whether you click on 'Tourism' or 'Business and the end of the page address is b211a/ so maybe it's a mistake) i.e. 'Proof of having living expenses for himself and/or his family while in the Indonesian Territory of at least USD 1500 (one thousand five hundred American dollars)'
      There are however different figures (and often different documentation requirement) quoted on other overseas consulate websites and the retirement visa requirement is listed as USD $1,500 per month x 12.

      Note: Under the new Regulation 48, as far as I can see, all visit visas are now for six months (rather than the old two months on entry then 4 x 30 days extensions) - see Article 136 below - so I can't see that USD $1,500 in total would be accepted as sufficient support funds for six months but what happens if you want to stay for less than six months? - who knows.
      Note: When I arrived in Jakarta on a B211A visit visa in April they stuck a two months visit stay permit sticker in my passport so I can only presume that it will now be a six months visit stay permit sticker.

      Article 136

      Visit Stay Permit for:
    6. holder of a visit Visa 1 (one) trip is granted for a maximum period of 180 (one hundred and eighty) days from the date of issuance of the Entry Mark and cannot be extended; or
    7. Visa holders for multiple trips are granted for a maximum period of 180 (one hundred and eighty) days from the date of issuance of the Entry Mark and can be extended provided that the entire Stay Permit in the Indonesian Territory is not more than 12 (twelve) months.
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
209
62
28
Currently all visa applications are onshore only, and have been since January 2021 I think, because the regulations stipulate that all visa applications must be submitted by the guarantor into the electronic system. All visa types are now available but the

Offshore applications for B211B and kitas recommenced in September.
 

John M

Member
Sep 29, 2020
70
51
18
Sanur, Bali
Offshore applications for B211B and kitas recommenced in September.
Sorry somehow that sentence posted before I finished writing and what I subsequently wrote has vanished. I was explaining that since January all global visa applications were/are only being done electronically in Jakarta where there was an 'offshore office' division within Immigration which dealt with applications from outside of Indonesia so the applicant was offshore but the application and vetting/denial/issuing of the visas was done onshore (rather than at the local overseas consulates).
Of course no new visit visa applications have been accepted since July when Covid Delta struck and now they are being accepted again, since September 15th, but they must be submitted by an Indonesian guarantor via the electronic system in Jakarta, which, my exasperated agent tells me, is continually crashing for days on end.
It's never either easy or clear :)
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
8,791
635
113
Karangasem, Bali
Looking for B211A "business" visa information for a Russian friend wanting to come now. She can't get the VOA because Russia isn't one of the 23 so how does it look with the B211A?
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
209
62
28
Looking for B211A "business" visa information for a Russian friend wanting to come now. She can't get the VOA because Russia isn't one of the 23 so how does it look with the B211A?

I have come twice on the B211A "business" visa. The business element is lose and includes meetings and exploring future opportunities.

It's an E Visa now and only copies of documents sent email / WhatsApp are needed. Depending on what agent your friend uses affects what documents are required. These can include:

Passport - with 6 months validity
Passport style photo
Evidence of insurance which covers Covid
Bank statement showing at least $1,500 USA or equivalent.

If you message me I can recommend a no nonsense agent.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
8,791
635
113
Karangasem, Bali
I have come twice on the B211A "business" visa. The business element is lose and includes meetings and exploring future opportunities.

It's an E Visa now and only copies of documents sent email / WhatsApp are needed. Depending on what agent your friend uses affects what documents are required. These can include:

Passport - with 6 months validity
Passport style photo
Evidence of insurance which covers Covid
Bank statement showing at least $1,500 USA or equivalent.

If you message me I can recommend a no nonsense agent.
Please send me your agent contact details and info about Russian eligibility since they haven't been included in the "happy" 23 countries eligible for the VOA. Some idea of the price would be nice too.
 

spicyayam

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2009
3,539
291
83
Looking for B211A "business" visa information for a Russian friend wanting to come now. She can't get the VOA because Russia isn't one of the 23 so how does it look with the B211A?

I wonder how they can get access to their money while they are overseas.
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
209
62
28
Please send me your agent contact details and info about Russian eligibility since they haven't been included in the "happy" 23 countries eligible for the VOA. Some idea of the price would be nice too.


Message sent
 
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ClemOz

New Member
Jul 10, 2022
2
0
1
Hello everyone, I just went through this thread and have a couple of questions but firstly, thanks for all the info already posted. My family and I are interested in migrating to Bali.

I am 33, my partner is 38 and our son is 9 months old. We are not married but have been together for over 10 years.

All three of us are Australian citizen.

I work for a global Tech organization in Sales and my partner is a CPA qualified accountant working in the Education industry. The company I work for as an office in Jakarta. is the KITAS an option for me? (I don't think so)

Are there other Visa options that could be suitable in the long term?

We also recently read an article about a 5-year digital nomad visa, is this really a thing that may happen? (It doesn't seem likely based on some feedback on this thread)

Finally, with the Social and Cultural visa.... beyond the initial 180 days and assuming it went smoothly, can we extend further at all? What about setting up a business in Bali? (import of goods, baby services (hire/nanny), opening a bar - these kind of businesses...)

Finally with the Social and Cultural visa, if my employer allows it, do I have the right to work from Indonesia but be paid in Australia and pay tax in Australia?

Thanks a lot in advance for whoever will pick this up and respond.

We appreciate it!

C & family
 

ClemOz

New Member
Jul 10, 2022
2
0
1
On my last message, say we come for 6 months and during that 6 months my partner sets up a business, can she get a business visa and can my son and I also get on that same visa as being a family? Thanks
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
8,791
635
113
Karangasem, Bali
Move down south close to an orphanage so that at least your son will be looked after when you've run off with one of the local beauties and your "friend" has been locked up for working without a visa.

Just joking your "friend" will have run off with a strapping young Kuta Kowboy before all this happens.

You seem like a relatively intelligent person so perhaps figure out what the hell you actually want to do before asking for a world full of useless information, eh?
 
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britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
Hello everyone, I just went through this thread and have a couple of questions but firstly, thanks for all the info already posted. My family and I are interested in migrating to Bali.

I am 33, my partner is 38 and our son is 9 months old. We are not married but have been together for over 10 years.

All three of us are Australian citizen.

I work for a global Tech organization in Sales and my partner is a CPA qualified accountant working in the Education industry. The company I work for as an office in Jakarta. is the KITAS an option for me? (I don't think so)

This would certainly be the best possible solution as it would avoid all of the problems associated with setting up your own company, grey areas and would be at the expense and effort of your employer. On the face of it there's no reason why you shouldnt be able to do this, you'd just have to get the relevant manager to sign-off on it and then the slightly unusual working from jakarta office whilst working from home in Bali say 4 days a week or maybe 5. Are you drinking buddies with the CEO? I have seen more mad things happen in the corporate world.
Are there other Visa options that could be suitable in the long term?
Not really that I know of, unless
you are old enough to retire - that's 55
you are willing to marry locals to obtain visas
you are prepared to set up a company or become an investor of some sort.

We also recently read an article about a 5-year digital nomad visa, is this really a thing that may happen? (It doesn't seem likely based on some feedback on this thread)

Wouldn't hold my breath or rely on it ...... but would be nice
Finally, with the Social and Cultural visa.... beyond the initial 180 days and assuming it went smoothly, can we extend further at all? What about setting up a business in Bali? (import of goods, baby services (hire/nanny), opening a bar - these kind of businesses...)
Yes once onshore you can (currently) extend onshore without limit seemingly with the blessing of immigration who may enquire after a while if you are working here. As long as you apply for the new one before the existing one expires - all good.

Setting up a business to get a visa is certainly done but its quite convoluted and expensive, you must set up a PT-PMA and inject the appropriate paid up capital to get going. Doing business here can also be quite risky. Something like a bar - hint, theres plenty already - also is unlikely be substantial enough to meet the PT-PMA requirements.

Read something about getting a KITAS via investment which I didnt really look at in detail but jist seemed to be investing in existing businesses or pooliing with other investors say to get a hotel / resort / villa or something and thereby getting a KITAS. Doesn't sound risky at all - lol.

Google "lifestyle business bali"
Finally with the Social and Cultural visa, if my employer allows it, do I have the right to work from Indonesia but be paid in Australia and pay tax in Australia?

Thanks a lot in advance for whoever will pick this up and respond.

So people argue round in circles on this one but I am pretty sure the answer is currently technically no - but there are seemingly plenty of people doing it and they are putting a chunk of money into the economy so it seems to be tolerated. Must add I am not a lawyer in any country let alone this one. I base this on the embassy pages where it directs you to KITAS if you intend to work in Indonesia.

You also hit the grey area of tax ie after 6 months in Indo you are technically liable for tax on your Global income but on social you will not be able to obtain a tax number to pay it regardless.

You may also fall foul of your own countries residence rules, ie cease to be a resident after an amount of time and this can also have consequences.

I see you have met the forum welcome wagon, don't worry he doesnt bite but his bark can be heard all the way from the jungles of the East where he resides/prowls :)

Hope this helps


We appreciate it!

C & family
 

RossM

Member
Jan 19, 2022
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36
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Agree
If I understand that correctly I find it rather interesting. If you deposit 2 billion rupiah on an Indonesian account you get a 5 year visa.
If somebody is planning to move to Bali and buy/ build a house, buy a car and start a business he/ she needs to spend that money anyway....?
Agreed, but even though the person builds a house, and spends almost US$200K, they must ALSO deposit US$200K!!
 

sakumabali

Active Member
Apr 2, 2010
989
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Agree

Agreed, but even though the person builds a house, and spends almost US$200K, they must ALSO deposit US$200K!!
That's unclear for me. When you start a PT PMA you need to prove a deposit of an amount x. Theoretically you can take all that money directly after...
Perhaps it's similar here? When you "deposit" 200 K at an Indonesian bank it's still your money
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
That's unclear for me. When you start a PT PMA you need to prove a deposit of an amount x. Theoretically you can take all that money directly after...
Perhaps it's similar here? When you "deposit" 200 K at an Indonesian bank it's still your money
Might be wrong but I suspect you guys are talking cross-purposes.

I think RossM is describing the second home / digital nomad visa proposal where applicants for the 5 year visa are required to place a substantial amount in an Indonesian bank account and hold it there for the period of their residence. My understanding of the proposal (which seems to closely mirror MM2H) is that this must be kept on deposit where it will earn you interest as a kind of bond ie you annot just take it out. I believe the MM2H program let you draw on it after a yar or so to buy property so who knows, let's see.

On the other hand Sakumabali I think you are referring to the "paid-up" capital part of the PT-PMA regualtion which has now been increased to a cool 10M from the previous 2.5M. In this case you are not making a deposit you are investing" paid-up" capital which becomes the property of the company (which of course you own) but the company is a distinct legal entity sepaate from you as a person subject to various laws etc.

I understand historically you could get away with just writing a lettere saying you have and will commit the then 2.5M but scrutiny increased and you were then obliged to undertake the transfer - I guess it may depend on the application of grease.

You are right as the director of the company you can simply issue a check from the PT-PMA to yourself emtying the account. Of course such a transfer needs a purpose, is it a dividend, a loan? Is it subject to tax?

This of course will be clearly visible on your internal accounts and wil rather impede your ability to develop a meaningful business. This would be somewhat of a red-flag for anyone who cared to look.

The catch then comes regards achieving the 5-year business goal which is supposed to be the creaton of a substantial SME business with capital of 10M - belonging to the legal entity which in turn belongs to you.

Your business licence can of course be revoked if it become apparant the PT-PMA is just a shell and there is no substantive business. Grease may help here too.

Interested party rather than an expert but thats my 10c right or wrong.
 
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