Plan for 5 year tourist visa comes at a price

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spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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Any takers?

Indonesian officials are mulling plans for a new long-term visa that would allow foreign tourists, especially business tourists, to stay in Indonesia for up to five years.

Tourism and Creative Economy Minister Sandiaga Uno and Law and Human Rights Minister Yasonna Laoly, the latter of which heads Indonesia’s immigration office, are reportedly discussing the possibility. The long-term visa, Sandiaga said, would specifically target foreigners seeking to spend time in Indonesia during the winter months in their home countries.

“The concept is a long-term stay [or] second home visa with a five-year validity. They would have to deposit IDR2 billion (US$142,958) [to be eligible for the visa]. For families, [they would have to deposit] IDR2.5 billion (US$178,698),” Sandiaga said in a statement today.


 

sakumabali

Active Member
Apr 2, 2010
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If I understand that correctly I find it rather interesting. If you deposit 2 billion rupiah on an Indonesian account you get a 5 year visa.
If somebody is planning to move to Bali and buy/ build a house, buy a car and start a business he/ she needs to spend that money anyway....?
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
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Karangasem, Bali
I often think of starting a list of all the "ministers good ideas" that have absolutely no basis in reality as I/we know it.

Nowhere have I seen that this visa would allow anyone to open a business in Indonesia or even own property so I fail to see who would be the target audience for this new idea?

There is already a "new" business visa that is making the rounds similar to the old "social" visa in lengths of stay and intervals for renewal which strangely doesn't allow anyone (as far as I know) to go into business here, just stay for 6 months.

I suspect it's aimed at the supposed thousands of Digital Gonads (Nomads) that are keeping the Starbucks and internet cafes afloat in Cangu but the powers that be haven't actually realized most of the Gonads haven't got $1000 let alone 100 of those to "deposit" in some nebulous bank account to get their visas.

Should some mentally challenged "influencer" Gonad actually come up with the dosh can you imagine what the gov here would do?

Would Gonad need to put it in some Indo idea of an escrow account and leave it there for the entire length of its stay?

Or could Gonad deposit it on Monday, get the visa and then take it out again on Tuesday (like a previous "Business Visa" here)?

Or would the Gov want to use it as a taxable hedge fund against the Gonad fecking off without paying his taxes?

Can you imagine the feeding frenzy amongst the "Agents" if they actually did have the money?!

The mind won't stop boggling.

Why does everything here have to be so fecking complicated?
 
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PERtoDPS

Active Member
Dec 31, 2018
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Slow down there Mr Mark IT, I'll have you know I'm on that visa. I wanted a social visa but my agent pushed me on this one (I heard the extensions are more expensive on this visa but can't confirm if anyone knows let me know) it basically lets me enquire about business but not do business, now I did have a look at a few options, but nothing that would really suit me at this point and in the current economic conditions here. Definitely not a nomad leeching everything I've dropped some 1/2 decent coin in this economy. I rented and furnished a house, "helped" my mrs quite a bit and I eat out and shop daily. Kitas was too long and too much of a financial commitment at the point I came and as events turned out six months has been a perfect amount of time here.

But yeah I agree there probably is nomads on the visa, and if they're that skilled on a computer it wouldn't be that difficult to edit a bank balance to show $10,000 or whatever it is (that figure was never determined, kept getting told different ones). Honestly mate for me it's beating the shit out of those bali visas runs on the 30 day VOA before, even the cheap flights cost more than extensions and with the old rona doing the rounds, well I'd rather not fly to extend and take all the transit airport risks. So for the 1/2 live here people I think it can work.

But the best thing about it it's an e-visa, and the application process is refined. A lot of the hoops you had to jump through before are gone. Of course negative PCR test is added but that's expected.

On the original topic 5 years is way too long for me in my 40s, but if I was older might be a nice option.
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2016
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.......... Why does everything here have to be so fecking complicated?


The Answer. "Hak yo Goh."

Got it? "Hak yo Goh."


I was once sent to interview a frail, withered Chinese gentleman who had just turned 100. Of course I had to ask him, the usual inane question.
"What is the secret for living to a very old age?"

The gentleman looked at me and answered in a crackly voice. "Hak yo Goh?"

"I'm sorry. What was that?"

"Hak yo Goh."

Shaking head and still puzzled. "I'm sorry....."

The venerable centenarian raised his crackly voice and with a louder voice and an impatient edge again said, "Hak yo Goh."

The penny dropped. He was saying, "Ask your God."

So the answer for your question Markit, is, "Hak yo Goh."
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
8,789
628
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Karangasem, Bali
Slow down there Mr Mark IT, I'll have you know I'm on that visa.

On the original topic 5 years is way too long for me in my 40s, but if I was older might be a nice option.
I in no way wanted to infer that users of the "business visa" are, or have ever been digital gonads. The old and trusted "social visa" seems to have fallen completely out of use since, as you mentioned, it's now impossible to make the 6 monthly visa run.

My retirement visa was 10 mil/year and the old social visa worked out at about that too including the one day flight to and from Singapore to get the documents at the embassy all told. Now we were just quoted a 1 year retirement visa for 18 million! and the social budiya doesn't even exist any more (or?). Luckily I was just at the right time to be able to get the 5 year retirement visa for 50 million (includes 2 years of entry/exit visas).

Happily will not see my agent for another 5 years.
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
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Pleased to report that the B211A social visa is in robust health and still going strong, at least for folks who are onshore and who have a private sponsor, or at least it was on Jan 29th when mine was issued after a 3 working day wait from time of payment.

In some ways its better than ever with the onshore application being smooth and simple and cheap as chips as no travel/overnighting or overseas agents fees are required at all.

It costs a non refundable ~720kIDR consisting oddly of 200kIDR + 50USD payment plus monthly the 4 renewals at 500k each so a total of 2.7 mil though its now somewhat oddly for 5 months and not 6 with extensions required after the first month and not the second as was previously the case.

A change from before is that now the locally registered and resident personal sponsor applies on behalf of the foreigner and before they can do so they must register themselves on the e-visa portal at no cost. Have heard of potential sponsor's being rejected but mine appears to have sailed through.

Application takes about 20 mins including uploads once you are prepped and then you get email responses and updates via the dashboard page which is very nicely done. A QR payment code gets issued for the multi-currency payment that can be handled by any bank that can deal with USD.

Main differences are its now a 5 month visa not 6, theres no visa page in your passport - the approval pdf you get sent with another QR code is the visa and you must renew starting the first month rather than the second. For onshore folks the visa is active immediately voiding any existing visa you may have running at that date.

Prices Ive quoted are self service and not agent prices where there are some pretty healthy margins being applied.
 

PERtoDPS

Active Member
Dec 31, 2018
531
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The 5 months thing was explained to me like this: When you apply immigration can give you either 30 or 60 days for the first block, it's up to them. Even agents have no say in this. Guess you just happened to pull the short straw there britoo. That said the massive amounts you saved making the visa alone, is arguably worth losing the month.
 

JackStraw

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2017
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Uno is just talking out of his ass as usual. As a Tourism Minister, he must be extremely bored of hanging around Jakarta whore houses and getting hammered with his big-government buddies everyday during the pandemic. So he just throws out statements like this all the time.

No way in Hell will this visa ever see the light of day.
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
Pleased to report that the B211A social visa is in robust health and still going strong, at least for folks who are onshore and who have a private sponsor, or at least it was on Jan 29th when mine was issued after a 3 working day wait from time of payment.

In some ways its better than ever with the onshore application being smooth and simple and cheap as chips as no travel/overnighting or overseas agents fees are required at all.

It costs a non refundable ~720kIDR consisting oddly of 200kIDR + 50USD payment plus monthly the 4 renewals at 500k each so a total of 2.7 mil though its now somewhat oddly for 5 months and not 6 with extensions required after the first month and not the second as was previously the case.

A change from before is that now the locally registered and resident personal sponsor applies on behalf of the foreigner and before they can do so they must register themselves on the e-visa portal at no cost. Have heard of potential sponsor's being rejected but mine appears to have sailed through.

Application takes about 20 mins including uploads once you are prepped and then you get email responses and updates via the dashboard page which is very nicely done. A QR payment code gets issued for the multi-currency payment that can be handled by any bank that can deal with USD.

Main differences are its now a 5 month visa not 6, theres no visa page in your passport - the approval pdf you get sent with another QR code is the visa and you must renew starting the first month rather than the second. For onshore folks the visa is active immediately voiding any existing visa you may have running at that date.

Prices Ive quoted are self service and not agent prices where there are some pretty healthy margins being applied.

Thought it worthy of an update in case it is of some use to anyone out there.

Just had my privately sponsored B211A onshore e-visa approved last night (Friday) having applied on Monday morning and paid on Monday afternoon at the bank. So 4 worknig days is not bad. Still same price at 200kIDR + 50USD.

Private sponsor registration and subsequent visa applications made here - "https://visa-online.imigrasi.go.id/"

The process remains fairly straightforward though I guess even the Indo goverment can't get the IT contractors to promptly align process and software leading to some frustration.

You cannot (to my knowledge) speak directly to anyone in Jakarta - just non-realtime wa/instagram chat and email and turnaround times are not speedy. The local folks at Immi are lovely and helpful but aren't part of the application process so may or may not be able to help. In my case they could :).

So here are the two brick walls I encountered and the solutions:

1. Page 4 - The data upload page

This offers the opportunity to upload mandatory (JPG/JPEG 100-400kb size) documents; sponsor invitation pro-forma, passport cover, passport photo page, onward journey ticket and foreigner bank financial statement respectively

In January attaching these documents allowed one to submit a successful application however last week it consistently resulted in the following unhelpful error message - "???upload_required_mandatory_oadn???".

The catch is the all but the top two of the optional documents are now (secretly) mandatory - only there is no way to learn this (that I am aware of) without outside help.

So once the (non)-optional (self written letters) declaration of agreement to quarantine, declaration of agreement to undergo monitoring, decleration of agreement to meet all covid related medical expenses and most recent visa stamp page are attached the application can be submitted without the ominous "???upload_required_mandatory_oadn???". Each doc needs to be signed over a 10k materai stamp.

2 Page 2 - Foreigner information page

There are the following two rather bizzare inputs required towards the end of the form, which I guess are showing the system variable names rather than the intended human readable text;
+ ???app_oa_register_expiry_date??? = Latest Stay Permit Expiry Date
+ ???app_oa_register_no???: = Latest Stay Permit Number

This info is found on the most recent passport extension stamp, the first being the red date stamp labelled "Valid Until" and the latter being the hand written scrawl identified as "No" which in my case had the general form 2B11EBXXXXBV where XXXX is a 4 digit number.

Apologies to those of you scratching your heads thinking that's a minute of my life I am never getting back. Truth is I'd have welcomed finding this post a week ago when I was busy scratching my head.
 
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Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Thought it worthy of an update in case it is of some use to anyone out there.

Just had my privately sponsored B211A onshore e-visa approved last night (Friday) having applied on Monday morning and paid on Monday afternoon at the bank. So 4 worknig days is not bad. Still same price at 200kIDR + 50USD.

Private sponsor registration and subsequent visa applications made here - "https://visa-online.imigrasi.go.id/"

Thought it worthy of an update in case it is of some use to anyone out there.

Just had my privately sponsored B211A onshore e-visa approved last night (Friday) having applied on Monday morning and paid on Monday afternoon at the bank. So 4 worknig days is not bad. Still same price at 200kIDR + 50USD.

Private sponsor registration and subsequent visa applications made here - "https://visa-online.imigrasi.go.id/"


With the privately sponsored Visa does the sponsor need to go to immigration for any or all of the extensions?
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
Metter,


yes the sponsor is required to present themselves in person along with the foreigner at each and every extension application - so once a month - and to show their identity card. They can then depart and do not have to wait for the processing which typically at the moent is swift taking maybe 15 -30 minutes..

Normally, in partular as appointments are now booked online, this process takes just a few minutes but it is possible it can take much longer - system outage, crazy day etc.

In my case my sponsor is my parther so we then make a day out and hit the beach, get lunch etc.


Hope this helps


Brian
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
209
62
28
Metter,


yes the sponsor is required to present themselves in person along with the foreigner at each and every extension application - so once a month - and to show their identity card. They can then depart and do not have to wait for the processing which typically at the moent is swift taking maybe 15 -30 minutes..

Normally, in partular as appointments are now booked online, this process takes just a few minutes but it is possible it can take much longer - system outage, crazy day etc.

In my case my sponsor is my parther so we then make a day out and hit the beach, get lunch etc.


Hope this helps


Brian

Thanks for that. Getting a sponsor for visa not an issue but them going to Denpasar every time is a pain and not all my Balinese friends could be trusted to turn up on the right day :) I think better to keep overpaying the agent.
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
Metter,

I think I would come to the same decision given the degree of obligation placed on the sponsor / friend and the power that then gives them over you. The risk reward dynamic just doesnt add up. A good agent has his reputation and livelihood at stake unlike a friend.

Should your friend not show up for either reason; can't or won't - then you are screwed with your visa expiring with maybe just a week's notice. Obviously if my partner refuses to show up I have got bigger problems on hand.

If you go down the road of compensating your friend then the value proposition isnt really that compelling. A good agent will stay on top of regs and procedures, do the paperwork and save you making 2 trips to deliver and collect each month. Thats actually pretty decent value on the monthly's. Its the up-froont fee that seems to have become a bit overpriced.

My main reason for DIY isnt the money savings. I probably spend the same money in the end though obviously its spent on lunches for us rather than the agents latest car or house which is far nicer.

For me its more that although the agent does the heavy lifting and the admin if something goes wrong the buck still stops with the foreigner ie me, be it overstay fine or whatever. During the covid emergency period quite a few horror stories emerged and just the way I am wired, if I am holding the can I just need to know whats going on - I guess I have trust issues lol.


All the best.
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
209
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Metter,

I think I would come to the same decision given the degree of obligation placed on the sponsor / friend and the power that then gives them over you. The risk reward dynamic just doesnt add up. A good agent has his reputation and livelihood at stake unlike a friend.



All the best.

Thanks Britoo,

The compensation for the initial visa would be worth it for both of us but no so for the extensions.
 

John M

Member
Sep 29, 2020
70
51
18
Sanur, Bali
I thought that I would throw in an update on this subject for those who don't know that this visa is now a reality, or will be soon.

It was introduced, along with many other changes to the visa system, in Government Regulation No. 48 of 2021 which was formally signed off on the 2nd February 2021.

According to my agent most of the changes announced in the new regulation are not being implemented yet, not only because of the pandemic, but probably because of fierce objections from agents as many of the old renewals that they reaped big money from have been removed and some processes that could only be done by an agent before can now be done online by the foreigner - at least that’s the plan.

The new ‘Second Home’ category replaces the previous Retirement or ‘Foreign elderly tourist’ category as it was actually called. (’Elderly’ is of course is a subjective term).

I've seen several articles online claiming that the Second Home visa can only be had by paying a huge immigration security deposit (the amount quoted varies) but that’s not correct.

It requires an Indonesian guarantor (Article 103 (1) a.), just as the retirement visa did, but there is now also a provision for those who don’t have a guarantor to pay the immigration security deposit instead (Article 103/3) - this is new and applies to all other categories that require a guarantor.

Note: The regulation says that the deposit (which can't be touched) is held for as long as the foreigner holds the ITAS, then it's refunded (yeah sure), and that all interest goes to State Treasury - ten years of compound interest is a nice earner for the government of course.

The ITAS for this category, and all other ITAS, is now for five years (Article 148) and can be extended once again to make ten years maximum.

The downside is that the Second Home ITAS can’t be converted to an ITAP until after ten consecutive years in Indonesia (Article 167/4). All other ITAS categories can now be converted to an ITAP after 3 consecutive years (Article 167/3).

The big question now is “What happens to those, like myself, who are currently on a ‘Retirement/Elderly Tourist’ ITAS?”.

The new regulation offers a clarification in Article 253C that doesn’t really clarify anything i.e.

At the time this Government Regulation comes into force, a limited stay visa, not for the purpose of working, as a foreign senior tourist that has been issued, is declared to remain valid as a limited stay visa, not for the purpose of working, for foreigners in the context of a second home.

I don’t quite know what that means, it may lose something in the translation, but I’ll find out when I come to extend my retirement ITAS next year.

PS: The B211A social/cultural visa category still exists, it’s just been removed for the duration of the pandemic, but the new regulation has added a category of ‘Pre-investment’, which is available during the pandemic, which it defines as: “…activity in the context of starting a business, including field surveys and/or feasibility studies”.

This is the visa category that I entered on in April of this year, after my C319 Retirement visa expired before I could use it and the offshore visa office closed, so I’ve been conducting field surveys of bars and beaches ever since but more research is needed ;)

PPS: Of course any and all of the above could be changed, cancelled, misinterpreted by immigration officials, misinterpreted by agents, be ignored or all of these things in the land of thought-bubble legislation and press releases that we love :cool:
 

britoo

Member
Sep 11, 2018
79
47
18
I thought that I would throw in an update on this subject for those who don't know that this visa is now a reality, or will be soon.

It was introduced, along with many other changes to the visa system, in Government Regulation No. 48 of 2021 which was formally signed off on the 2nd February 2021.

According to my agent most of the changes announced in the new regulation are not being implemented yet, not only because of the pandemic, but probably because of fierce objections from agents as many of the old renewals that they reaped big money from have been removed and some processes that could only be done by an agent before can now be done online by the foreigner - at least that’s the plan.

The new ‘Second Home’ category replaces the previous Retirement or ‘Foreign elderly tourist’ category as it was actually called. (’Elderly’ is of course is a subjective term).

I've seen several articles online claiming that the Second Home visa can only be had by paying a huge immigration security deposit (the amount quoted varies) but that’s not correct.

It requires an Indonesian guarantor (Article 103 (1) a.), just as the retirement visa did, but there is now also a provision for those who don’t have a guarantor to pay the immigration security deposit instead (Article 103/3) - this is new and applies to all other categories that require a guarantor.

Note: The regulation says that the deposit (which can't be touched) is held for as long as the foreigner holds the ITAS, then it's refunded (yeah sure), and that all interest goes to State Treasury - ten years of compound interest is a nice earner for the government of course.

The ITAS for this category, and all other ITAS, is now for five years (Article 148) and can be extended once again to make ten years maximum.

The downside is that the Second Home ITAS can’t be converted to an ITAP until after ten consecutive years in Indonesia (Article 167/4). All other ITAS categories can now be converted to an ITAP after 3 consecutive years (Article 167/3).

The big question now is “What happens to those, like myself, who are currently on a ‘Retirement/Elderly Tourist’ ITAS?”.

The new regulation offers a clarification in Article 253C that doesn’t really clarify anything i.e.

At the time this Government Regulation comes into force, a limited stay visa, not for the purpose of working, as a foreign senior tourist that has been issued, is declared to remain valid as a limited stay visa, not for the purpose of working, for foreigners in the context of a second home.

I don’t quite know what that means, it may lose something in the translation, but I’ll find out when I come to extend my retirement ITAS next year.

PS: The B211A social/cultural visa category still exists, it’s just been removed for the duration of the pandemic, but the new regulation has added a category of ‘Pre-investment’, which is available during the pandemic, which it defines as: “…activity in the context of starting a business, including field surveys and/or feasibility studies”.

This is the visa category that I entered on in April of this year, after my C319 Retirement visa expired before I could use it and the offshore visa office closed, so I’ve been conducting field surveys of bars and beaches ever since but more research is needed ;)

PPS: Of course any and all of the above could be changed, cancelled, misinterpreted by immigration officials, misinterpreted by agents, be ignored or all of these things in the land of thought-bubble legislation and press releases that we love :cool:


maybe a correction or a clarification regarding the PS on B211A visas. I am looking at my current B211A visa approval at this very moment, dated June 2021 and during today's 4th and final monthly renewal the nice chap reminded me to ensure I apply for my next/new one at least 2 weeks in advance - to be safe. So I think I am living proof it hasnt been removed.

So I am pretty sure its out there and readily available to anyone onshore with a private sponsor (and who knows maybe to anyone using an [honest] agent?).

I do think its correct that you haven't been able to enter Indonesia from overseas on the B211A for much of the pandemic but I think I recently saw that the B211A is available again for this purpose. Not confirmed this latter part though as I have no need to do so.
 

John M

Member
Sep 29, 2020
70
51
18
Sanur, Bali
maybe a correction or a clarification regarding the PS on B211A visas. I am looking at my current B211A visa approval at this very moment, dated June 2021 and during today's 4th and final monthly renewal the nice chap reminded me to ensure I apply for my next/new one at least 2 weeks in advance - to be safe. So I think I am living proof it hasnt been removed.

So I am pretty sure its out there and readily available to anyone onshore with a private sponsor (and who knows maybe to anyone using an [honest] agent?).

I do think its correct that you haven't been able to enter Indonesia from overseas on the B211A for much of the pandemic but I think I recently saw that the B211A is available again for this purpose. Not confirmed this latter part though as I have no need to do so.
Hi Britoo;
What I wrote was not that the B211A visa has been removed for the duration of the pandemic but that the Social/Cultural visa category has been removed - it was a long post and it's easy to miss seeing a word that changes the intent of the sentence :).
To clarify a little more the pre-pandemic B211A activities categories were 'Travel, family, socio-cultural, business, government, sports, comparative studies, courses, attending short training, giving lectures, attending seminars, attending meetings, urgent emergency work (natural disasters), transit and joining transportation means in the area of Indonesia'.
For the pandemic period to date they have continued to allow business and government categories, and hence continue the issuing of B211A visas, and have now added the pre-investment category with the release of Regulation 48 and, as stated above, I entered on a B211A visa in April of this year.
 

Metter

Active Member
Oct 8, 2017
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My understanding is the B211A is not available offshore. Only the B211B. Onshore visa's can certainly be B211A