Pedophiles in Bali and Passports

[Lou]

Topic split from the Aussies Face it discussion (mod)

Unfortunately Roy it ain't that simple. With those already convicted of paedophilia I believe passports are revoked in Australia and many other places. As in the US however, being arrested and aquitted doesn't bring any reduction of citizenship privileges. Likewise where the offence is suspected but evidence is unavailable or insufficient to bring charges. These last two situations occur a fair bit with paedophilia due to the age and credibility of the victims.

Being granted a visa for another country however is not a citizenship right for anybody and accordingly that's the best control point. Providing intelligence to other countries about suspected paedophlles is done informally but effectively and will work as long as a process is in place to receive, disseminate and take action. Unfortunately Indonesia Immigrasi lacks those processes and anyway prefer a different relationship with bules to cooperating with their governments. The processes would in any case be devilshly difficult to deploy at the VOA desks in Ngurah Rai Airport.

Australia and the UK take the paedophilia issue very seriously and give it a lot of visibility. Both have laws that allow prosecution of these offences even if they occurred in another country and even if it is not against the laws of those countries; Germany is the same, I think. That sometimes is manipulated to assert there must be a greater prevalence of paedophilia in those countries when the reality is simply that they are more open and serious about combating it.

Ultimately however every country has the responsibilty of protecting it's borders from these perverts and Indonesia has not done a good job with this over the years. You must have noticed that many of the paintings made by those very famous expatriate artists of the 30s and later are of under age boys in somewhat suggestive poses.

Anyway I'm off to dinner so catch up with you later.

BTW was that you at Nuri's last Thursday evening explaining about the Royal Pita Maha to a group of ladies? If so I brushed right past you and we still didn't get to say hello.

Oh and a BBTW, don't expect that most Australians or even a small minority agree with me, at least publicly, about how they and their government got manipulated by a group of elderly embittered journos over Timor.

 

[Roy]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Lou, I don’t know if your love for irony is as great as mine, but consider this. Here we are, both in Ubud, Bali, banging away on our keyboards, and likely unaware that either of us could stand up, and holler our responses at one another…or at least meet in the middle, like at Nuris.

Anyway, it’s a full moon. Eri is at temple with our three boys, and that leaves me to be a bad boy.

Yup, that was me at Nuris. The Royal Pita Maha is located very close to our house on the ridge. Boy, are we ever happy all that loud construction noise is over! Next time…let’s connect. One of the ladies, by the way, the gorgeous young blond, was Cass…a Kiwi teaching English in Denpasar.

Anyway…back to our discussion…a passport is not a citizenship “right” either. Convicted criminals abdicate their citizenship…and can’t vote either. Well, that’s the case in the US anyway. A close family member, who is fairly high up in the Indonesian immigration office, has told me that any information provided by any country about a citizen of that country that could be a basis for entry denial is in their computers. These are passport numbers, sorted by country, and include a reason why they are in the system…suspected terrorist, drug dealer, pedophile, bank robber, murderer, wife beater….whatever. If they pop up on the Interpol list, then they are detained. So, all OZ has to do is to keep Indonesia up to date with its latest crop of undesirables, and Indonesia will be happy to put them on a plane home. But, without that information, here in Bali, a popular tourist destination…we are somewhat at a loss…don’t you agree?

Oh, and this:

Oh and a BBTW, don't expect that most Australians or even a small minority agree with me, at least publicly, about how they and their government got manipulated by a group of elderly embittered journos over Timor.

You’d be surprised. One of my closest friends, from Perth, was once a journalist. You likely already know him, and he couldn’t agree with you more! I hope you had a great dinner. I had some Balinese “mystery meat meal” and will likely be sleeping on the toilet seat later on. Those screams you may hear in a couple of hours are not directed at you…so, a quick “ma’af” in advance.

 

[matsaleh]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Kim, that would make perfect sense if in fact, the Australians were the most populous tourists in Bali. They are not, and since the Bali bomb, in fact, they are number three, as tourists, after the Taiwanese and Japanese.

Have you looked at the statistics lately, Roy? Australia is running a close second to Japan at present. Taiwan figures have dropped off dramatically, and it seems South Korea will rival Taiwan's figures shortly.

http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/m ... sp?Id=2516
http://www.balitourismauthority.net/new ... nality.xls

 

[Roy]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Hi Mats! Yes, I took a look. Those figures are only for the first three months of 2005, so they don't give a complete picture.

In any event, enough is enough and I don’t want to create any ill will here on this forum.

 

[Lou]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Anyway…back to our discussion…a passport is not a citizenship “right” either. Convicted criminals abdicate their citizenship…and can’t vote either. Well, that’s the case in the US anyway.

For criminals convicted of paedophilia it's a non issue Roy, these days they don't get a passport in pretty well any country. The "right to a passport" aspect has a big effect however on how those in the grey zone can be handled. Before getting on to that it's important to understand an obscure but significant difference between the US and Australia, namely the level of passport issuance per head of population. Probably because of their country's isolation, a huge percentage of Australians hold and regularly use passports while in the US the percentage I believe is quite small. That generates quite different community expectations of entitlement.

In the UK a passport is actually a right and one the government has great difficulty witholding. The problem in Australia is that, for the reason mentioned above, it has become a defacto right and it is difficult for the Department of Foreign Affairs to deny an application without good reason. That leads into the quagmire of allowing a government to penalize an individual on the basis of suspicion or already dismissed charges. In this part of the world that can be done in Singapore and Malaysia but not Australia or Indonesia (hence the ever ongoing Bashir problem)

So, all OZ has to do is to keep Indonesia up to date with its latest crop of undesirables, and Indonesia will be happy to put them on a plane home. But, without that information, here in Bali, a popular tourist destination…we are somewhat at a loss…don’t you agree?

Of course. Tipping off another government about these paedophilia suspicions or history of previous charges is done routinely but I strongly doubt anybody involved is going to stand up and talk about it. The opportunities for abuse are pretty obvious and the media would have a picnic with it.

Given the strong level of cooperation between the two countries police forces, it's virtually certain that Australia and Indonesia share this type of information. The question is how effectively is it being deployed and updated. Do you happen to have any indication from your family relation in Immigration of the approx frequency of paedophiles being intercepted and denied entry at the airport here?

 

[matsaleh]

RE: Aussies, Face It

From Jakarta Post - 16Apr2005

20 convicted Australian pedophiles tried to travel to tsunami-hit countries: Report

CANBERRA (AP): About 20 convicted Australian pedophiles unsuccessfully tried to travel to Indonesia and Thailand immediately after the Dec. 26 tsunami to prey on vulnerable children, a newspaper reported on Saturday.

The pedophiles were recorded on a new Australian child sex offender register which requires them to tell police where and when they intend to relocate or travel, The Weekend Australian newspaper said.

Police alerted Indonesian and Thai authorities that the men intended to visit early this year and those governments denied them visas, Western Australia state police Det. Sgt. Martin Voyez told the newspaper.

"After the tsunami, a large number of Indonesian and Thai children were displaced and became very vulnerable," Voyez was quoted as saying.

"This attracted a higher number of pedophiles to those areas than usual."

The newspaper did not say how many pedophiles would usually apply to travel to those countries.

Voyez told the newspaper Indonesia and Thailand always denied entry to registered pedophiles. He wasn't immediately available for comment on Saturday.

So, it's certain there is some communication between the two countries on this subject.

 

[Roy]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Hey Lou! I’m back from suffering the slings and arrows of the Balinese mystery meat meal and the resulting rough night.

Do you happen to have any indication from your family relation in Immigration of the approx frequency of paedophiles being intercepted and denied entry at the airport here?

Very, very few is what I am told. Without their passport numbers, it's almost impossible. If they do pop up and they are not on the Interpol list, they are just sent back...anywhere...just not allowed to stay in Bali. If on the Interpol list, they are detained until appropriate law enforcement officials arrive...which can be days, so I've been told.

Mat’s post, specific to foreigners seeking entry into Sumatra raises some interesting issues. If it was so easy to target those predators then…some months ago, then why not now, and continually?

At major tourist "import" centers, like Ngura Rai airport, immigration is under great pressure to process the vast numbers that arrive every day as quickly as possible. Hell, with the VOA, the long flights, and the fact that the overwhelming majority of entries are only here for a vacation, that's plenty understandable.

Anyway, I hope to connect with you soon, one of these days. Cheers, Roy

 

[InAdelaide]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Australia has a register of Paedophiles and by law they are required to notify police when intending to travel overseas... after the recent problems in Asia ... Police notified Thailand and Indonesia Of certain people intending to travel there and acording to reports both countries refused/revoked there visas.
With East Timour we are bombarded with ads on TV in Adelaide about how unjust Australias deal is with the oil and gas and that the aid we give them is much less than they would receive from there fair share of the oil/gas..
When rafting in Ubud 2 years ago with my daughter(13 at the time) we were having lunch and overhearing 2 fellow aussies guys chatting up 2 swedish girls...she looked at me screwed her face up and ask me (what part of Australia are they from) She was embarrased to listen to the false accents and dribble coming from them.
The reason aussies spend less in Bali on average is that a large section of aussie tourists that are attracted to Bali are from the lower social set that cant afford to holiday in Australia but can afford to come to bali but once there are on a limited budget Im sure without them would mean less income for bali ..

 

[Lou]

RE: Aussies, Face It

It seems that I stand corrected on the matter of convicted paedophiles in Australia being able to retain or obtain a passport. If it's true that they can then I agree 100% with Roy's earler comment to me that

The fact that countries allow their criminal citizens to retain a passport is a de facto criminal act in its own right.

Paedophiles as a group for some reason seem to be well connected, frequently protected by high authority for murky reasons and incredibly well networked. We've seen this in as widely dispersed a set of geographies as the Belgian child torturers, the Boston Priests and the Australian ex diplomat in Bali; that's just 3 that come readily to mind, there are many more. All have one common denominator ...a history of protection by higher authority. I bring this up because it's about the only reason that makes any sense for their continued access to a passport.

The whole thing just seems so full of holes however that I'm having enormous difficulty believing it. Why for example would any country allow entry to somebody who has been reported to them as a previously convicted paedophile. Given that the obvious answer is no place in the world then how do they manage to travel anywhere at all. The Australian Government will have advised all points on their itinerary of the background so any journey will just see a series of airport interiors, immigration detention rooms and onwards to the next airport. Quite a holiday.

 

[Lou]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Hmm, maybe the answer to the conundrum raised in my last post is nothing more difficult than 2 government departments having conflicting policies. Foreign Affairs provides passports to previously convicted offenders because nobody instructed otherwise. The passport is however useless for the reasons stated above and because the Federal Police have a policy of advising the conviction to any country the offender plans on visiting. Pretty neat if true as there'll be a lot of jet lagged, angry and out of pocket paedophiles who have managed to visit nowhere.

 

[Roy]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Lou, I’m still confused. If a foreign sex offender living in OZ, holds a passport, (for OZ), they are supposed to report intended foreign travel. But, what if they don’t and their foreign travel does not involve a pre-travel obtained visa? And, even if they do have to pre-apply for a visa, there is no coordination among the Departments of States regarding visa applications unless something “pops” up in their applications.

For certain their passport numbers are not in the airline, or cruise ship operator’s computer. That will only happen if Interpol gets involved.

Australians are only subject to visa on arrival in Indonesia, and unless their passport comes up in the Indonesian immigration system, they are clean as a whistle, and off they go! Who’s gonna know? Worse yet, consider if this person also holds a passport from another country!

The worse, and most “notorious” pedophiles on Bali have come here, set up “home” lurking in the shadows, but with a passport. Many of them have lived here for years without notice, and too often without complaint. That aspect, the lack of complaint part is indeed a Balinese/local Indonesian issue. All too sadly, the lack of reporting is based on money. That’s another issue, and one that needs to be seriously addressed.

I “hear” what you are “saying” but the loopholes are not limited to departments within OZ (or likely other countries). Those passports, issued by “foreign affairs” are not useless. They are powerful instruments of free passage and they bloody well should not have been issued in the first place.

 

[Lou]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Roy, it is indeed confusing. At the heart of the matter a government should immediately confiscate and never reissue the passport of a person convicted of paedophilia. Apparently the Australian Department of Foriegn Affairs and Trade (DFAT) doesn't see it that way but fortunately the independent Police Forces and Immigration Department are more enlightened. They are both enforcement organizations, historically work closely together and no doubt the register is in both databases. Between them they are more than capable of ensuring that the paedophiles follow the rules.

Any and every person departing Australia has an airport or seaport immigration interview and computer scan check against their passport. This would indicate to the interviewing officer when the holder is a paedophile and certainly trigger an off queue private room interview including a check for the report of a travel plan. Convenience for these travelers would not be a high prioity for immigration officers.

Those offenders currently under Australian jurisdiction i.e resident are unlikely to be a problem to the neighbours, DFAT notwithstanding. Cleaning up the past is another matter and that's really what you are mainly concerned about. Unfortunately there is good reason for concern and probably little Australia can do to help as they lack the needed information.

This issue has only hit the spotlight in the past 10 years and most counter measures have taken place even more recently. Realistically those already undercover throughout South East Asia are home free and only local surveillance will dig them out. If that means Australian expat residents, particularly single guys, get greater scrutiny for a while then that's life.

Those most responsible for the situation are authority figures who took the easy way out when confronted with this kind of thing in the past. I think the major weakness in most counter measures is the lack of pressure on these people to behave properlly in the future. Yes, we all know the impact of public revulsion for the behavior of people such as Cardinal Law of Boston and Governor General Hollingworth of Australia but that's ad hoc and random.

Concealing or not reporting an individual known by a person in authority to be engaging in paedophilia should be a crime in itself. This is legistlatively possible as we can see from the stream of corporate exceutives now being imprisoned for turning a blind eye to shonky financial reporting by their subordinates. Why not then the Bishops, DFAT Heads, Ambassadors and, lets face it, spouses who conceal this kind of thing and even ship the offender off to a foriegn location to avoid embarassment. Literally - bugger thy neighbour's children.

 

[Sanurian]

RE: Aussies, Face It

I can't follow this any more. People like Roy seem to be under the impression that paedophiles only exist in the western world. There are many cases of paeodphilia throughout Indonesia. And not only that, child marriages still occur here.

Under-age sex here is rife. I know of one abortion clinic in Denpasar that is full of pregnant schoolgirls every day of the week. I'm sure there are many others.

I saw a Jakarta Post article today stating that nearly 800 people have been arrested in Jakarta just this week for drug dealing and using. Some of them are alleged to be police officers. I'm not sure that any thinking person should be surprised about this. That Indonesian drug laws are Draconian should be pretty obvious to anyone. That severe punishments and penalties have never worked anywhere should, in my opinion, alert governments to look at alternative measures. By far the most destructive drugs are the legal ones, such as alcohol and tobacco. I wonder what would happen to Indonesia's economy if tobacco were to be banned? Chaos, I bet.

8)

 

[Roy]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Easy does it Sanurian, and please don’t make assumptions concerning your impression of another poster’s naivety:

People like Roy seem to be under the impression that paedophiles only exist in the western world.

Without doubt these problems, pedophilia and drug dealing are internal as well as external. As for child marriages, how do you define “child?” In Bali, it’s still legal, although rare, for a girl to be eligible for marriage after her first period. That’s not pedophilia, that’s a cultural issue.

By the way, what issue of the Jakarta Post is it that you read today? What I read in today’s issue what that “the customs and excise office at the Soekarno-Hatta International Airport revealed on Tuesday that it had managed to foil the delivery of 34,810 ecstasy pills from the Netherlands.”

 

[Roy]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Any and every person departing Australia has an airport or seaport immigration interview and computer scan check against their passport.

Lou, that is good news. Personally, I haven't departed a Western country in some seven years now.

 

[Sanurian]

RE: Aussies, Face It

Might have been yesterday's, Roy (issue of Jakarta Post). What's wrong? Do you think I'm making this up?

I'm not trying to get into a debate about the definition of a "child". Or naiivety, for that matter. Your assertion that child marriages are "rare" these days begs the question: What is "rare"?

Bali has just as many problems as anywhere else on the planet. Just like Indonesia. Pretending they're not there or somehow lesser in magnitude is plain foolish (and even bloody-minded).

It's admirable (and great) to embrace an alien culture, and to feel "accepted". What was your quote before? Many are called but few are chosen. Something like that. If you're really one of the "called", good luck and I wish you all the very best.

I'm not sure how places like Nuri's fit into Balinese Culture. In no way am I knocking Nuri's. It's just a business, after all. There are hundreds of thousands of businesses on Bali. The majority of them are diminishing/or at least changing that Culture, step by step. Whether the changes are good or bad is definitely not for me to say. I've been coming to Bali since 1973 and have seen enormous changes here. Of course, not all of them are good for the Balinese, or even Indonesia as a whole. That's not especially my concern - it's not my island.

The negative changes here continue to grow. The "education system" is, for most locals, a joke. The "health system" is another joke. The rampant ignorance here is a crime. I forget who it was that once said Bali would be greater without the Balinese/Indonesians. Hmm. Them's fighting notions. I dearly love Bali too. If it had anything to do with me, I'd try to stop the plastic attack, places like McDonald's, KFC, Dunkin Donoughts and all the rest. Including American television. Maybe even handphones and motorbikes. But then, the new generation of Balinese are heavily plugged in to that stuff. Take it all away (if that were possible), and what would be left these days?

Bali does not need to be a living museum, as some people would like. I also can't see that the major problems here are getting any more than lip-service, most of the time. The prolonged ignorance here does not auger well for the future.

Most of us know Bali is not a "Paradise", especially for most Balinese. Expats who know and understand this should perhaps stop pretending it really is. It gives people confusing messages.
8)

 

[Tracey]

RE: Paedophiles in Bali and Passports

I did news here that in Jakarta there were arrests on officials & I think but cannot say for certain that it was Police Chiefs or something involved in a drug ring!?

I also know that Gede has told me before that incest is bad in Java due to the poor all sleeping in the one bed & so Fathers having intercourse with ther daughters...
I do not at all know how far or wide this is spread or anything other than what Gede has told me about it... :?:

 

[Roy]

RE: Paedophiles in Bali and Passports

Sanurian, I always find it odd posting to you with that addy since we both know each other by name. But I respect your desire to keep it as Sanurian.

I think the differences in how we each view “our Bali” are evident here in our mutually frequent posts. As you know, I live in a very small, tranquil and peaceful village. From my perspective, my first priorities are to my family, and then to my banjar. In many ways, they go hand in hand, as so many of the people in our banjar are an extension of our family.

Each and every expat I know has varying views on this, all based on their own particular personal situation. Br. Bunutan-Kedewatan is very isolated, and very much free of the problems faced by the Balinese down your way, and this in spite of the fact that there are three major five star resorts all located right here in our village.

When I married Eri and moved into her village some six years ago, I was the first tamu to ever do this. It was not easy, and it took a lot of work and sacrifice to be finally accepted. No, I do not delude myself with ideas that I am now Balinese…but around my village, I am not tamu either. On the other hand, our three boys are fully accepted as Balinese, and so they are Balinese.

With this in mind, my unique viewpoints and attitudes concerning the topics of drugs and pedophilia should be understandable. The biggest scandals in our village have to do with marital infidelity, and I don’t know of anyone involved in drugs. The fact is, many of our fellow villagers have never been to Denpasar, or any points further south of Ubud.

That I would like to keep it that way, is evident in my posts. I want my sons to be able to grow up in the same environment as did their mom, uncles and aunts and grandparents. Anyway, I hope this helps to explain the differences in our opinions. Take care amigo, and I hope to see you soon.

PS…for me…”my Bali” is still very much Paradise.

 

[Thorsten]

RE: Paedophiles in Bali and Passports

A good decision Bert, to split these threads, the things gone wild and some of the context got lost.

I want to concentrate my post here on the paedophile discussion and add some of my thoughts regarding this topic.
We all are living in an information and also in a travel society, the world is coming closer in times of internet and in times of laughable cheap air fares, nowadays travelling is not longer a privilege, with all its positive and all its negative influences. Nobody will stop this development and it will also not stop at the shores of Bali.
For paedophiles it’s getting easier to live their obsession, or however you want to call it.

It’s the same with everything, whenever there is something going wrong, we are looking for somebody to blame.
Who is responsible for this annoying development, weak law, corrupt politicians or police officers, the airlines, ignorant hotel managers, the TV, the internet, Michael Jackson?

I had my first “experience” with paedophiles in Thailand many years ago.
There was the British guy in my hotel (grey skin, small and bold, maybe 45 yrs) who brought this little Thai boy to breakfast (max 14yrs) one morning.
What have I done? – Nothing!
I felt disgusted and left the breakfast – this was completely wrong!
I was thinking about my attitude later and I’ve learnt something – never accept something like this- never ignore- never turn your head and pretend you don’t see!
By doing this – we all are nothing better than the pimps of this guys, WE enable them to do what they are here for, WE are making them feel save, WE are providing the soil for their activities.

How will you recognize a paedophile in a shopping mall in Sidney, London, Berlin or New York?
Do you think, this people will carry a tattoo on their foreheads – child fÜcker ?
You will find this sort of people through all the society; they are labourers, teachers, police men, judges, lawyers, drug dealers or priests.
Most of this people will live a normal life at home, married, children, social activities, the perfect façade, but deep inside they are preparing all the time their next trip to the Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Brazil or Bali, maybe they will share some child porn via the net, but they will stay calm at home, the perversion is focused on a few weeks in the year.
Most of this people will jump of the plane, live their “dreams” for 2, 3 or 4 weeks and will return back to their normal life, or dilemma if you like so, but they will take good care in Germany, Australia, Spain or the UK, they will keep the façade, back at their wives, their jobs, most of them will never get in conflict with the law in their home countries.

It’s a fairy tale, that Interpol would have ever worked, not even an international arrest warrant will guaranty that a rewarded criminal will be caught at any border – an international system worldwide, where paedophiles are registered – sorry but I have to laugh about this.
Not even here inside Germany a system is existent, to provide this, not to talk about inside the EU, an international working system around the world? This will NEVER exist!
Too much bureaucracy, different standards in computers, different laws, different political interests and thousand other reasons will avoid this.

Just to explain, an Indonesian immigration officer will never get any special information about a German “ex-criminal”, yes he will get the information, THAT he/she was criminal in Germany (when sentenced and still in the reports), but he will not know for what, how long or whatever – not without a very complicated and long lasting official request by the Republic of Indonesia ( I’m not talking about a plain police men).
Not that you’ll get a wrong impression – Germany is very though by fighting child abuse around the world, heaps of specialists are searching the internet day by day, undercover agents specialists on this topic and by our law, we don’t make a difference where the abuse happened, many people got surprised when arrested on a German airport after holiday was over, some weeks ago almost all police men of a police station near Dresden got arrested, because they had child porn on their police computers.

This problem –child abuse- will not be solved by politics, neither by laws, it’s amazing me, when people directly confronted with this problem are demanding help some thousand kilometres far from where the problem shows up.
When an Australian, German, British idiot is going to burn down your neighbour’s house, will you call the ambassador of the each country and complain about, will you call the fire-fighters in Melbourne, Munich or Manchester, or will you go out, kick his ass, take some water and solve the problem by yourself?
There is a brave man in Manila, a German priest who has founded an orphanage for abused children, he is hunting paedophiles, he is photographing them, documenting their activities, their strings, the pimps and is forwarding this information to the authorities in Europe, he brought a lot into jail and despite all death threats he carries on.

Maybe I’m only fed of the mood here in Germany, I’m fed of all these people whinging all the time, demanding others to solve their problems, maybe I’m simply fed of all these people, who always find somebody to blame, but never consider to do something themselves.
However, fight the fire where it burns, take your own responsibility, take good care for the children – all children and don’t turn a blind eye on these thing wherever, whenever they happen.
It’s our all ignorance, which makes this possible – there is something wrong, when every fifth taxi-driver in Kuta is asking me, if I would like a VERY young girl or boy, there is something wrong, when an old Western bloke is walking hand in hand with a little girl on a shopping tour and nobody takes notice of this, there is something wrong, when 16 yrs old hookers are served in hotels at breakfast and there is something wrong, when the police men is only interested in the bribe, because the small boy on the motorbike doesn’t wear a helmet, but he doesn’t ask, what he has to do there with this foreign bloke.
You wanne get rid of this paedophiles ? Very simple, kick them out!

Sorry for bothering
Thorsten

 

[Sanurian]

RE: Paedophiles in Bali and Passports

Hi Roy

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my postings. As far as my "addy" goes, I only chose "Sanurian" in case there were lots of other "Phil's" around. No more - no less. I am not hiding behind it.

I do believe I have a fairly good idea of your bliss in your village. I was married to a Balinese in a small village for about 7 years and had a son birthed in Australia. Towards the end, "my Balinese family" didn't have the guts to let me know what was going on with my wife or even that something was amiss. Almost overnight, I started getting the cold-shoulder treatment. This went on for several months until it became intolerable. Eventually I packed-up and left.

Without getting into unsavoury details, my Balinese wife had found a new and richer partner in Australia so I became irrelevant (apart from still being the biological father of our son). I could add here that my ex-wife doesn't really like Bali and feels much more unfettered in Australia. That I may have married into a dysfunctional Balinese family in the first place is the main conclusion I've been able to draw.

I lost a lot, that's for sure...but the "good times" were a sort of bliss for me, too. Ah - but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now...

I am now re-married and my wife is Sundanese. To the average Balinese, she's seen as "Javanese" and I guess I'm just a Bule Gila . So, these days we are both still aliens on this island. So be it.

Phil
[/i]