Georgie

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Mar 10, 2011
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Bukit
Hi all

Okay, it's been bugging me that our Notaris has said it will cost 25Million to transfer a Hak Milik to Hak Pakai at the PBN (Land Office) (or Hak Guna Bangunan, apparently same price).

So, I did some research and went on to the website of the PBN and you can actually put in the measurement of the land, the zoning, your details as whether company or individual, the type of title to register such as Hak Pakai or Gak Guna Bangunan) and you get a total price payable, and a lovely little flow chart of the process.

The charges are:

Biaya Layanan
Biaya Pengukuran: Rp. 140.000
Biaya Panitia: Rp. 358.000
Biaya SK: Rp. 100.000
Biaya Pendaftaran: Rp. 50.000

Total Biaya: Rp. 648.000

and, I thought maybe there was another fee for the conversion of one type of title to another and I was correct, it's a whopping rp. 190.000.

+50.000 admin fee
6.000 stamp duty

So, the Notaris are trying to make some serious money as I was referred to a site where someone mentioned 20Mil for a transfer but then after further research I found the World Bank listed the fee and so do many law firms in Jakarata and the most is .01%.

If I was to pay 25million it would actually be 10% of the agreed value of the land. This would mean a nice little "fee" of 24 mil going into someones pocket.

Anyone have any other feelings or experience on this before I go in blazing to the Notaris office like an AK47?
 

sakumabali

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Hey Georgie,

yes it disturbed me too; I paid for years 6-8 million for my KITAS (without IMTA) and I told this some friends and they looked at me with disbelief, they did it themselves and they just pay...500.000 Rupiah,
so if you could do it yourself go for it ;-)
Generally: if you are able to cook, go into the supermarket and create a wonderful menu - in case you can't you have to eat in the restaurant (nobody asked there "what do you want to have? But it were just...at the market I would have paid...etc), theoretically you wouldn't need to hire a lawyer too in case of a finished law studies...

Good luck!
 
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sakumabali

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Apr 2, 2010
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If I was to pay 25million it would actually be 10% of the agreed value of the land. This would mean a nice little "fee" of 24 mil going into someones pocket.

Unfortunately this system in Indonesia ain't working (that way), many things are officially very cheap, to open a PMA costs officially not much (in real live 40 - 60 million Rupiah), you can apply for a PMA yourself, pay the cheap price, everybody smile at you maybe even with respect and than....nothing! Cause EVERY official will be too busy too sign your paperwork....for 10 years maybe.
In your specific case: Indonesia is corrupt (surprise :-(!!), so some of the let's say 24 million is going into official pockets, some the government wants extra etc etc....no doubt that the notary will keep a good cut but you can't do it yourself either.
So: go to many different notaris, find some who are still new, hungry and need the money, try to negotiate...it works!!!
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
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Panji, Singaraja.
There must be something I am missing here...or totally misunderstand..
a Hak Milik is in my vocabulary the sertifikat Land-title), wich is registered at the Dep. pertanahan.
on this sertifikat is a registration-number and one can register several agreements/contracts, like an Hak Guna Bangunan or Hak Pakai to this.
Know what I mean ?

As for the Indonesian system, Sakumabali is spot on..
you pay to get your paperwork to the top of the stack, if you don't pay you're in for a long wait (unless you have a friend working at the Dep.)
How much do you pay your notaris for his services?

Sakumabali..a KITAS for 500k (sponsored by husband or wife I assume), I betcha they didn't have a receipt?
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
2
16
Bukit
Unfortunately this system in Indonesia ain't working (that way), many things are officially very cheap, to open a PMA costs officially not much (in real live 40 - 60 million Rupiah), you can apply for a PMA yourself, pay the cheap price, everybody smile at you maybe even with respect and than....nothing! Cause EVERY official will be too busy too sign your paperwork....for 10 years maybe.
In your specific case: Indonesia is corrupt (surprise :-(!!), so some of the let's say 24 million is going into official pockets, some the government wants extra etc etc....no doubt that the notary will keep a good cut but you can't do it yourself either.
So: go to many different notaris, find some who are still new, hungry and need the money, try to negotiate...it works!!!

Yes, tried 3 today and they all came up with 25 million, one even said that it's just because you are a foreign company, same with Hak Pakai (foreigner), but you cant do go a different land office, there is only one so you don't have much choice. Hak Milik is the fixed small fee.

It would be good if it actually sped up the process but will still take 5-6 months to transfer. I think I need to be reincarnated as an Indonesian and get the job of the Kepala at the Lands Titles office.
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
2
16
Bukit
There must be something I am missing here...or totally misunderstand..
a Hak Milik is in my vocabulary the sertifikat Land-title), wich is registered at the Dep. pertanahan.
on this sertifikat is a registration-number and one can register several agreements/contracts, like an Hak Guna Bangunan or Hak Pakai to this.
Know what I mean ?

As for the Indonesian system, Sakumabali is spot on..
you pay to get your paperwork to the top of the stack, if you don't pay you're in for a long wait (unless you have a friend working at the Dep.)
How much do you pay your notaris for his services?

Sakumabali..a KITAS for 500k (sponsored by husband or wife I assume), I betcha they didn't have a receipt?

Hak Milik to Hak Guna Bangunan means that we will eventually hold the sertifikat, and can be sold back to an Indonesian who can change it back to a Hak Milik (very cheaply)

Notaris 1%.

Sakumabali - we've done a lot ourselves, but yes we pay someone to do our KITAS as we just don't have the time, it expires when we are at our peak work time. We do our drivers licence renewals and our exit permits ourselves and save a lot there. The fee for a KITAS is now 750,000IDR (its up on the board at Immigration) but we pay 5 mil to get an agent to do it just because it would cost us more to take the time off work.
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
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Bukit
You know, we once were at Immigration in Tuban handing in our file from Immigration in Denpasar (we moved areas), and filled in a change of address form, left our blue book for signing and stamping etc, told to come back the next day to collect.

Came back and were asked for 600,000IDR administration fee, we said "Okay, where is the receipt", told no receipt .We said we would not pay without a receipt, she wouldn't budge, I said you must mean "I-Klas", she said yes, I said it was too much, she was stumped. I said let me talk to your bos. So we walked into the head of Immigration and there was a little man behind a big desk in a fancy office holding our bluebooks. He said 'why you not pay', I said it was too much, he said 'how much you pay' I said '50,000IDR', he said not enough. I said we did not have any more money. He said if we not pay he would keep our bluebooks. I said, that's fine we don't have enough money to pay you so why would we have enough money for a plane ticket out of the country, you can keep the books and walked out.

6 months later when we had to renew our KITAS and our bluebooks were waiting for us at Immigration, nothing to pay!
 

sakumabali

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Sakumabali..a KITAS for 500k (sponsored by husband or wife I assume), I betcha they didn't have a receipt?

No That's what I heard is (was) the official price last year, it's not the working permit of course and the "family Kitas" (husband - kitas - via his indo wife) is "more expensive" but in this similar case still 500 thousands....

@Georgie: I'd probably paid the 600.000 Rupiah, live and let live ;-) but very tough!

Another story: I was driving the other day at night in my car towards Jimbaran when suddenly an old Toyota suddenly sped up when I wanted to change lanes (a guy in front of me made a U-Turn), I wasn't driving fast at all neither did the guy behind me, but suddenly he pressed gas and honked like a maniac, 3 guys in it, the driver starred at me, I gave him a finger (probably a mistake), this guy blocked my car as he parked diagonally on the street, came out of his car and said that I'm in big problem now as he's balinese (so of course he LITERALLY owns the island) and work for the immigration and will have my kitas canceled, he called the police, get my plate etc etc...and left in the end after he said he knows now who I am (Car plate)

Some of these guys have really issues, they're balinese on the island of bali but more and more they losing it all: Money, land, influence....and temper!

Ever met a guy from new York who said he owns New York cause he's originally from there? :icon_e_biggrin::icon_e_biggrin::icon_e_biggrin:
 
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Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
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Bukit
Another story: I was driving the other day at night in my car towards Jimbaran when suddenly an old Toyota suddenly sped up when I wanted to change lanes (a guy in front of me made a U-Turn), I wasn't driving fast at all neither did the guy behind me, but suddenly he pressed gas and honked like a maniac, 3 guys in it, the driver starred at me, I gave him a finger (probably a mistake), this guy blocked my car as he parked diagonally on the street, came out of his car and said that I'm in big problem now as he's balinese (so of course he LITERALLY owns the island) and work for the immigration and will have my kitas canceled, he called the police, get my plate etc etc...and left in the end after he said he knows now who I am (Car plate)

Some of these guys have really issues, they're balinese on the island of bali but more and more they losing it all: Money, land, influence....and temper!

Ever met a guy from new York who said he owns New York cause he's originally from there? :icon_e_biggrin::icon_e_biggrin::icon_e_biggrin:

Oh dear, yes we had an altercation on the highway only last week, the guy got out of his car and came around to us at the traffic lights, my hubby got out and was over 1 foot taller than him, my husband said to him in Balinese "you are not worth my anger" and got back in the car. He then chased us and threw a water bottle at our car, he was very tough, not.
 

sakumabali

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Apr 2, 2010
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"you are not worth my anger"

translation please (bahasa bali), kamu tidak pantas kemarahan saya? Kamu tidak pantas bahwa saya marah? (Bahasa Indonesia), better translation please!
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
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Bukit
"you are not worth my anger"

translation please (bahasa bali), kamu tidak pantas kemarahan saya? Kamu tidak pantas bahwa saya marah? (Bahasa Indonesia), better translation please!

I will ask hubby, I'm not 100% positive how to write it only how to say it, his spelling is better than mine for Indo and Balinese, I write how it sounds which is never correct
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
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Bukit
"you are not worth my anger"

translation please (bahasa bali), kamu tidak pantas kemarahan saya? Kamu tidak pantas bahwa saya marah? (Bahasa Indonesia), better translation please!

Anda tidak layak saya marahi = ci sing pantes GEDEGIN tiang

OR

Anda Tidak layak marahi saya = ci sing pantes NGEDEGIN tiang

I needed this today, just walked out of the Notaris office fuming as she wanted me to sign a blank document with someone else's signature on it...long story
 

sakumabali

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Apr 2, 2010
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Thanks Georgie,

you're sure about the i in the end of "marahi"? Can't find in the dictionnary just "marah" & others...
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
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Bukit
Thanks Georgie,

you're sure about the i in the end of "marahi"? Can't find in the dictionnary just "marah" & others...

You know to be honest I have never learnt to read Basa Bali, or seen a dictionary for it, nor has hubby, we read and write Indonesian but learnt Basa Bali living in a remote Northen village for 5 years, it could be written wrong, he just tired his best as I am hopeless, and it could be their dialect as I have found since moving to the South that the Balinese talk differently.

what dictionary do you use? I'd be interested to get hold of one.
 

Georgie

Member
Mar 10, 2011
163
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Bukit
what did the notaris say that the blank form was for?

Hi Gilbert

It was the Akta Jual, (the sale and purchase agreement). Not filled in with any details, but already a signature of someone who was apparently the old owner of the block of land and the new owner. I said I wanted to see proof that the "new" owner had a power to sell agreement and she said not necessary as the person paid cash. We are buying off someone who bought the land but does not want to proceed....very long story,