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news about post-nups

Discussion in 'Owning Property in Bali' started by davita, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    Just read on another forum that the Constitutional Court today have overturned a part of the law and will permit post-nup agreements, therefore allowing mixed marriage WNI spouses to own hak milik property.
    This is hearsay so if anyone can find the readings from the court I'm sure it will be appreciated if posted. This affects many members and others.
     
  2. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    For the sake of the WNA (foreigner) I think the safest to own property is not having a prenup or postnup
     
  3. Fred2

    Fred2 Member

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    You are correct the hammer went down, the law has changed. We will register a post nup in December and let you know how it goes.
     
  4. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand...how does a WNA own property in RI.
    The law was to stop discrimination of WNI spouses, married to foreigners, and losing their birthright to own property
     
  5. matsaleh

    matsaleh Super Moderator

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  6. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    Deleted
     
    #6 balibule, Oct 28, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  7. spicyayam

    spicyayam Well-Known Member

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    I guess it is a positive step, but still not sure how this is good news for foreigners. And it still doesn't give much clarification as to a foreigner's rights. But still well done to mixed marriage group for being able to bring about these kinds of changes. Next on the wishlist: dual citizenship for kids and the right for foreign spouses to work in any kind of job in Indonesia.
     
  8. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the RI Constitutional Court gives a rats-ass for foreigner's rights. They decided to level the playing field for WNI of mixed marriage who were discriminated against by not being able to own land, due to contradicting laws (Agrarian and Marriage). That has now been abrogated by agreements...which I would call post-nup agreements....to separate property rights.

    btw Children of mixed marriage are allowed to be dual-citizens under Indonesian Law...I'm surprised you said you wished for it.
     
  9. spicyayam

    spicyayam Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but not permanently right, eventually they need to decide.
     
  10. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah...adults aren't allowed....when they are my wife can then claim her Constitutional Rights to own property and be able to work...so that's also on our wish list.
    I cannot wait..not much time left.
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Active Member

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    This is a great decision for mixed couples who did not enter into a pre-nup. It obviously has nothing to do with foreigners' rights to own land (I'm pretty sure they will never have any), but rather the consequences on the constitutional rights of the Indonesian partner in a mixed marriage. There are no doubt thousands of couples who will benefit from this ruling.
     
  12. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Mark and was due to a women's group called PERCA...who are married to foreigners and were discriminated against.

    The next step is to get children of mixed marriage their rights to be dual until adulthood. There was an opening for this but it was limited.
    Remember Gloria (French) who didn't even know she was not an Indonesian citizen but had won the right to raise the flag on Independance day...her mother is now an advocate.
     
  13. Mark

    Mark Active Member

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    Yes, good to see this and agree that more can be done for mixed marriage families. The latest court decision reflects the positive side of nationalism in Indonesia. Hopefully more to come...
     
  14. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    Well, it seems to me to be just a baby step in the right direction. Most other countries treat spouses as if they were full citizens once they have the paper work done. This is far from that.

    It basically says "we are so scared of foreigners we aren't even going to let the ones that love us have any rights".
     
  15. balibule

    balibule Active Member

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    If you look back over the years I find that things are improving but just so slow that you almost don't notice. Several years ago it was allowing dual nationality although limited to 18 years old. Then they made a small change to allow foreigners to own apartments although it had to be a minimum value of 1 billion (don't remember exactly what it was). Now they change the pre-nup and post-nup thingy.

    More changes will come for the good I think but just very slow.
     
  16. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree...particularly since President Widowo's Gov't took office.
    It will take time but that might accelerate if the Gov't shows, by reforming entrenched laws of Indonesia, that it really intends to join the rest of the world in trade, transfer of technology, education, skills, resources and opportunities.
    It needs foreign help...just like many emerging nations before but the Indonesian xenophobia has unlimited stupidity....witness Friday's rally.

    There was NO reason for the Jakarta Municipality to provide permits for a demo (cost US$38M in losses to Tanah Abang traders). If the masses ultimately revolt...then the Gov't needs to assert.

    This wishy-washy approach we saw will just delay the inevitable...chaos, loss of life and the economic development of Indonesia.
    They need to find who are those opposed and challenge if their integrity is to the Nation...or their Religion...or their dynasty family connections.

    I hope I'm wrong.
     
  17. Braveheart_shaped_box

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    and who is to say that whatever perceived rights or wrongs are ratified by this governement won't be changed by the next one
     
  18. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    What's different here in RI, or any other country, when the government is changed. Like you said on another thread here....it's democracy.
     
  19. Braveheart_shaped_box

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    good one but I think you will find the word democracy does not translate very well locally
     
  20. davita

    davita Well-Known Member

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    You are correct and I absolutely agree...there are many perceptions of democracy but we, who were born and educated in countries where civic education was curriculum, may understand more clearly.

    Countries, like Indonesia, are handicapped in that area of understanding of freedoms and rights as it interferes with religious teachings...particularly Islam....and civic education has to be learned later.

    As I said earlier I see Indonesia is progressing slowly in understanding that riots are not an expression of democracy or freedoms...the police/military spokes-persons recently articulated that well....imo. The recent rally was used by traitors to Indonesia's national development.....for political gain.

    Thru' internet, social media and TV (witness the debates on the lawyers program) it is easier for Indonesians to explore democracies in the rest of the world. I believe, from talking with many Indonesians, that is happening with the educated majority and now it's opportune to relay that information by enhancing their economic development......which is happening.

    Remember the slogan "You've never had it so good!"
    That might be a useful slogan to broadcast to the Indonesian masses....now how to get that info onto the Mosque loudspeakers...:eagerness:
     
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