Moving to Bali with family renting against buying

[Deb b]

Ok, here goes, I have read a lot of posts before writing this one but cant really find the answer.
We are currently living in Australia with our 4 children and are ready for an island change. We originally thought we would buy a house in Bali, however, the banks put an end to that. Not to be put off we thought well lets rent long term, we were thinking that you could sign a contract for 25 years + but pay annually. However, last night I was told that the whole amount needs to be paid. This does not make much sense as we may as well buy a house. Who has that sort of money to rent? - you should be buying. Anyway is this correct that the whole amount has to be paid or can you have a legally binding contract to protect both parties for long term and pay annually or bi-anually?
My next question is about visa's I have tried to contact the consulate but cant get the right info on the phone and my email keep telling me to contact somewhere else. I want to make sure I am prepared for this move and it would be the same if it was say England we were moving to. What happens with visas if you are not on holidays. How do you get a longer visa? Where do we apply? My husband is going to be having to fly back and forth as we cannot afford for him to stop working but sort of over Australia at the moment (yes I am an Aussie). I apologise if these are silly questions and I am nervous about some of the answers as I have read comments on here, but if I dont ask I wont know.
Is there a book or site I can go to that tells me how to move here? How to enroll kids at local Indo schools etc? Any help or direction anyone can give me would be fantastic, thanks in advance
Debs

 

[davita]

Hi Debs....I see this is your 1st post so welcome to the forum.

It is pure co-incidence that I have just downloaded a free internet book on newbies to Bali written by an experienced expat. While I have some experience of Bali and will move from Jakarta to our Bali villa in a couple of days, I did find reading the book informative and highly recommend you join and download......Bali Manual

 

[Deb b]

Hi Davita, thank you so much for this, whilst I realise any move is never easy, I was beginning to think I had bitten off more than I could chew and I was just being naive in thinking we could do this <3

 

[rasi]

Hi

The thing with 'buying' is you won't own it. No foreigners can own property in Indonesia. Even me with an indo husband our house is in his name only. So technically, he can sell it and keep the money!

Also something you may not have looked into which is my main money concern is schooling. I'm not sure local schools would be up to your standards? And the international ones (AIS) are over $200 a week per child just for fees!!

 

[Deb b]

Hi Rasi, we are currently paying $10 thousand per year just for two kids at school here at home, I had been told it was expensive but did not realise that high, having said that though I may look into home schooling as we struggle with those fees now so it will not be any easier in Bali. What choice did you decide on?

 

[rasi]

Mine are still little so haven't decided yet I have thought about distance ed from WA if all else fails. Then I'm not the teacher lol

 

[Deb b]

I found out the other day, you don't need to be a teacher to do home schooling, have been doing some research already lol. There are many different ones so you need to be careful, we will look around for recommendations, and I will probably start the home schooling before we move so that the kids will be used to it

 

[davita]

I don't want to rain on your parade Debs and I admire your adventurous spirit. I would caution, however, on this dream of moving to Bali at this time in your life.
First, Indonesia is not very welcome in regards to visa's to stay in Indonesia....that is your first hurdle. The only long-term visa is for those who have a spouse who is Indonesian (called WNI) or, if one spouse is over 55, a retirement visa. All other visas are temporary, or associated to working in RI. They are also difficult to renew; sounds OK but, after a while, leaving RI to get another visa to return becomes tiresome.

If re-locating your family from Australia is urging you may want to consider Malaysia which has an Make Malaysia your Second Home (MM2H) scheme. It is one of the best visa's any expat can have as it permits staying in Malaysia for 10 years (renewable) and leaving/returning at will. Property can be owned outright. There is a limit to the minimum cost but that is to prevent foreigners buying cheap houses and converting into mansions. They do not have any tax on earnings outside of Malayasia and certain professions are permitted to work, albeit with some restrictions.

Many Australians and Brits have applied for this visa as they feel comfortable in Malaysia as English is widely spoken.

 

[Deb b]

I had never considered Malaysia Davita to be honest. We love Bali and thought hubby would be close enough (as we live in WA) to be able to fly over once a month. I am 43 so not quite 55 lol. What do other people do? I ask because when we were staying in January this year, we happened across a very (whats the right word) trendy up market cafe and there were a lot of Australians in there, and whist I was not eavesdropping realised that a lot of them were living in Bali, and they were with young children. We originally had a 5 year plan, in that once the older two finished there high school TEE it would free us up to just come over with the younger ones, but in the meantime we would find a house suitable for us and rent it, and make it available as holiday rental for when we are not there, which would help with costs in the first couple of years. Whilst we realised rental income is never guaranteed we figured we would be able to save enough each year to make the annual rent, and perhaps avoid rising costs. I always feel like I have come home when I come to Bali, and sitting staring out at the rice paddys is so peaceful for me. I will talk to hubby but Malaysia is a lot further away with travel for us

 

[werecoming]

I don't want to rain on your parade Debs and I admire your adventurous spirit. I would caution, however, on this dream of moving to Bali at this time in your life.
First, Indonesia is not very welcome in regards to visa's to stay in Indonesia....that is your first hurdle. The only long-term visa is for those who have a spouse who is Indonesian (called WNI) or, if one spouse is over 55, a retirement visa. All other visas are temporary, or associated to working in RI. They are also difficult to renew; sounds OK but, after a while, leaving RI to get another visa to return becomes tiresome.

If re-locating your family from Australia is urging you may want to consider Malaysia which has an Make Malaysia your Second Home (MM2H) scheme. It is one of the best visa's any expat can have as it permits staying in Malaysia for 10 years (renewable) and leaving/returning at will. Property can be owned outright. There is a limit to the minimum cost but that is to prevent foreigners buying cheap houses and converting into mansions. They do not have any tax on earnings outside of Malayasia and certain professions are permitted to work, albeit with some restrictions.

Many Australians and Brits have applied for this visa as they feel comfortable in Malaysia as English is widely spoken.

I don't mean to hijack your thread deb so please excuse me but I am in a similar position.

Davita,

You mention malaysias no tax on earnings outside malaysia for foreigners, does that mean that Indonesia has tax on any earnings an expat generates outside indonesia? I am looking at working part time in an existing business from Bali although all earning will be in aus.

Thanks,

We're coming

 

[davita]

Indonesia taxes on world-wide earnings.
If anyone stays more than 180 days in Indonesia, by law, they are supposed to submit for an NWPW which is a tax ID Number.
Many do not conform and I haven't heard of problems, but who can tell the future.

 

[Deb b]

so If my husband was coming over once a month and staying only 6 days or so, and then leaving - since he is the moneymaker would that mean no tax, and if I read your last post, I have to leave every three months to renew visa? sorry if I sound dumb but would actually love to sit with someone with my list of questions in hand and fire away

 

[davita]

so If my husband was coming over once a month and staying only 6 days or so, and then leaving - since he is the moneymaker would that mean no tax, and if I read your last post, I have to leave every three months to renew visa? sorry if I sound dumb but would actually love to sit with someone with my list of questions in hand and fire away

Like I said Deb...unless working in RI most expat people, earning outside, just ignore the tax law. I'm sure your husband, in his circumstance, would be way down a list for concern.

With regard to visa.....you should study the link I gave earlier to see which visa is best in your situation.
The most common for someone not employed is a Sosbud. This requires a sponsor from Bali, if that is where you will reside. A Sosbud lasts 60 days then is renewable every 30 days up to 6 months...then you will need to leave and return on a new visa.
Another is visa on arrival (VOA) for US$25 and lasts 30 days but is extendable for another 30 days, then must leave and return and repeat.
The same visas will be required for the kids.

I did warn that your adventurer's dream is somewhat fraught! But it is doable.

btw there are no dummies, so ask away, there are many members here with better experience than mine.

 

[Deb b]

Your help is much appreciated I fear that my four day trip at the end of the month that was to be finding a house will just be a lot of nothing xxx

 

[gibbndip]

I have to disagree with some previous posts. Iv found it easy going the sos bud route. My husband works internationally (uses VOA) and myself & 3 kids just go to singapore every 6 months. The only down side is you cant leave the country or the visa is voided .
As for the housing we signd a 3 year lease (the longer you sign for the cheaper it is generally ) & we negotiated how we paid.

Now for the schooling.....There are cheaper school that have a good curriculum (up tp aus standard ) and great atmosphere.

 

[spicyayam]

Is it possible for kids who go to an international school here for the school to sponsor their KITAS? I only ask that then at least Deb's kids wouldn't have to leave the country every 6 months. The way I see it the only way to stay long term is the Sosbud or social visa, for the non-working parent. I do agree with gibbndip that it's not so difficult staying here on a social visa, but that was my experience when I didn't have a child - now just going shopping takes us forever to get ready!

I think there are a lot more things you need to think about beyond visas etc. So many things here are so much more relaxed like drinking age, riding motorbikes etc, so I think while it sounds like a great idea to experience as a family, there are many potential pitfalls also.

 

[gibbndip]

Most schools can sponsor for the kids kitas :icon_e_smile:

 

[Deb b]

ok, so I havent had time to read all up on the visa's but is the kita one where we can stay for how long? And would just the kids have one do you think and it would just be me leaving? I am lucky in that my teenage children have whilst one is nearly 16 has no interest in drinking but does love the fact when we come he can ride a scooter and next time will actually have int dl for it How many do you have spicyayam?

 

[gilbert de jong]

@werecoming...short answer, Indonesia has no tax on earnings outside of R.I.

@Debb...normally the whole amount owed for rent is paid in full in advance...some landlords/villa/houseowners accept different payment-terms, aka per year/per 5 years etcetc.
visawise, you can apply for a 60 day tourist visum, wich you can extend here to a total of 6 months...after that you would have to leave the country and come back on a new visum. Husband can come on a VOA every month.

 

[gilbert de jong]

@debb...no your husband would not pay tax in Indonesia over income made in Aussie...he still would pay overthere.