After so many years of hearing similarly complex and convoluted explanations concerning the legalities of property ownership here in Indonesia I'm beginning to miss only one thing - where are the court cases of expats that have been relieved of their dubiously owned land or where any "nominee" has been similarly relieved of his duties and his "owners" property?
Markit,

There are, to my knowledge, no court cases of mixed couples who would have been relieved of their property due to the fact that they have acquired a property without prenup and with the help of an ignorant or complaisant notaris. If you want my opinion about it, I would also tell you that I believe that there won't have any. It would be in my opinion far too unpopular for the government to really push this agenda, despite what governmental officials say, from time to time.

There are quite a few cases of mixed couples who have been extorted or refused a sale by notaris, due to the fact that they had acquired a SHM while joint property was the matrimonial rule. Most managed to sell their asset by just looking for another notaris and the more naive have lost a bit of money and agreed to be extorted.

A few years ago (2008 to 2010) the Ikatan Notaris Indonesia has tried to held a few seminar for its members in several part of Indonesia concerning the consequences of the land law on mixed couples. I had the chance to be invited to one by a friend. It was pretty interesting but I can't say that I had the feeling that those who attended were very interested by the topic or even motivated to stick to the law and enforce it. At least where I live. I have been living in Indonesia over 15 years and my (indonesian) wife was involved in quite a few land transaction as a buyer and as seller as well, in two different provinces. Not one time a notaris has bothered to inquire about our matrimonial regime and prenup. Worse, I don't have enough of my two hands to count the number of incorrect answers I had to questions I asked concerning legal aspects of a transaction. I remember one particular transaction with an elderly woman who had been married twice, widowed twice, with 5 kids born from the two marriages, with two of them having emigrated to Australia and the US, who wanted to sell quickly a house which was pawned in a bank and soon to be repossessed. A particularly tricky case but a very interesting potential investment for us. I had to go through 3 different notaris before finding one who gave me the impression that she knew what she was doing.

If mixed couples issues are no big deal, you are however seriously misleaded in believing that no Indonesian having acquired a foreign citizenship concurrently to his/her Indonesian citizenship have been forbidden by justice to hold an ownership title. If you want court cases documenting it I invite you to browse the archives of Mahkamah Agung: Direktori Putusan - Pengadilan > MAHKAMAH AGUNG > Perdata. Browsing the one concerning "warisan", "tanah" and "pembagian harta" would have you changing your mind. Most of the one that you would find, where article 21(3) UU 5/1960 has been applied, are cases concerning inheritance because it is often where divergence in a family may occur and where the citizenship of a family member may be questioned.

When one invests the saving of one's life, I assume that one wants to make sure that everything is legally certain and that it doesn't infringe any law. Considering how the justice system works here and how fast the mood of our political leaders may change I think you can't blame people to try to follow the most legit way.
 
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Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
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Karangasem, Bali
Again thanks Atlantis but I'm always reminded of an old saying "where there's no argument, there's no judgement".

I'm sure that families are the main cause of property confrontations in law not only here but everywhere else on the planet too.

So in that instance I'm not surprised and your examples are, I'm sure, informative but, luckily for me, not of personal interest as I'm not married to an Indonesian, or likely to be unless my wife of 36 years changes her mind suddenly. With inheritance issues I can easily imagine a situation where a "needy" brother of a dead female Indo who was married to a Bule would contest the "ownership" of land being passed to the surviving children of the pair - or various permutation of same.

My points above are only pointed at foreign ownership of Indonesian land and the body of unwarranted (IMHO) fear that seems to follow the entire issue.

I would welcome any information on court decisions or proceedings that you are aware of in that field of landmines.

Markit
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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Most of the one that you would find, where article 21(3) UU 5/1960 has been applied, are cases concerning inheritance because it is often where divergence in a family may occur and where the citizenship of a family member may be questioned.

I know of a situation where the wife changed her citizenship to British. Much later she inherited half of the family home in Jakarta but her brother, who inherited the other half, decided to exclude her as she was no longer WNI and therefore could not inherit Hak Milik property.
The wife took the case to court in Jakarta and the decision was to sell the property and divide the proceeds. To date that has not happened. Her brother lives in the home and has not sold.....nor given her a dime. There appears no-one to enforce the courts decision and, according to the wife, it isn't worth pursuing the case as the legal fees are too expensive.
Communication 101..... win the battle but lose the war.
This highlights the unique Indonesian issue of 'citizen and property rights' of a WNI marrying a foreigner that is currently being debated in the Constitutional Court (MK) system.
 

Steve Rossell

Member
Apr 18, 2015
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In the early days of separation and subsequent divorce with my wife I was confronted with a totally unacceptable settlement proposal.
I knew that my now ex partner was a good person but because of her emotional state was taking advice from others that been through unsavoury experiences.
I told her that if that was the case then I would burn up the disparity of her initial claim with lawyers and that we would both lose but I would only lose a similar amount if I agreed to her initial demands. Emotions settled and so did our financial settlement after 30 years together. We even sold the family home together without real estate agents and are still friends, our families are still friends.
My point is that gender and nationality aside there can almost always be a positive outcome if you want. It just takes 2.
If not, I believe 'ghurka' has a solution.
 

tel522

Active Member
Oct 30, 2015
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Latest news update from perca, re meeting with minister of Agraria

Friday 26 february 2016, perca indonesia,

Meeting with minister of agrarian and spatial/ head BPN Mr Ferry M Baldan

keynote speaker at National Seminar organized by the Indonesian Notaries Association Kab. Tangerang.

At a side meeting with the board of perca

he gave his views on the rules of ownership of land and buildings governing Mixed Married , In general, he understands there are problems with the current law, a draft is currently being prepared to solve the issues relating to mixed married .

One note, the Minister reiterated to Perca , that every citizen is entitled to the status of Property Rights which are fundamental rights stipulated in the Act.

He will have a further meeting with perca to finally solve this problem.



As I have further information I will post , hopefully this issue will be resolved soon .
 

Nydave

Member
Jun 4, 2015
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Using your child can lead to problems later, especially if the child has dual citizenship,i know a couple in Bali who are in this situation as of right now,not sure how they went about it but seems they used the child, however the child is now a 20 year old young woman, those childhood years go by very quickly,she is also a dual citizen possibly even a triple citizen as her Dad is a dual citizen of 2 western countrys,so right now the child is at the age of having to deside which citizenship she will hold onto,so to me using the child is only passing the problem onto the next generation,

This may sound weird but would getting a quicky divorce,available in several country's and then getting remarried this time with a prenup be a solution to the problem,might seem like a huge step to take but if it works it would be worth the effort,again I'm sure others will havebetter advice

Seems to me to retain ownership of the house she has to keep her Indo citizenship,i may be wrong and im sure others on here have more info on this,