Py

Member
Nov 11, 2002
100
0
16
Br. Basang Kasah, Bali
Hi all,

I am looking for any recommendations for a good professional international tax adviser here in Bali. I need someone well versed in international as well as Indonesian tax laws.

Any recommendations or info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks, Py
 

ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
2
16
Near Ubud
international tax adviser?
Do you mean expat adviser or an expert on international tax or expert on tax treaty between Indo and your home country?

You need to be more specific, if you want the big four which is pricey I could give you the contact details of the people working for EY, PWC, KPMG and Delloite tax consulting :biggrin:

If its for smaller scale reporting, I could recommend a very good Balinese tax consultant, he used to do all the tax report and getting the tax return for my old office but maybe you need to be clear about the scope of work
 

Py

Member
Nov 11, 2002
100
0
16
Br. Basang Kasah, Bali
Thank you for your response ferdie. I am interested as an individual, not as a company or corporation (unless of course it becomes necessary to incorporate). Being a duel national from two countries with wildly different tax laws for foreign residents (I only pay taxes in one), and married to an Indonesian citizen, there are several options on how to proceed. Which of my citizenship's works best for expatriot tax issues? Which visa, KITAS vs. KITAP etc, or even a possible Indonesian citizenship is the best way to organize my financial issues.

So basically I am looking for someone to give really good solid and knowledgeable advice on all the possible avenues we as a mixed nationality family could pursue.
 

ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
2
16
Near Ubud
expatriot tax issues?
let me guess you have 2 nationality and wonder which one would be better to be use here?
you only pay tax in one country so you have to use that I suppose, there's no use declaring dual nationality in tax matters if you don't pay both, use the one that you pay :icon_lol:

If you don't have any income here, it will be so easy for you.
the problem arise if you have income here and you'll need a tax consultant for reconcile your tax to minimize double taxation
 

matsaleh

Super Moderator
May 26, 2004
2,471
145
63
Legian, Bali
I don't know about other countries, but in Australia - if you are still a resident for tax purposes - the rule is that if you pay tax in another country and it is LESS than you would pay in Australia, you must pay the balance to the Australian tax office.

In other words, if you pay 10% in Indonesia and the tax payable in Australia is 30%, then you must pay a further 20% to the Australian government. I know this for a fact, as I got caught previously.
 

SHoggard

Member
Nov 28, 2011
738
3
16
Singapore
Matsaleh, as I understand it, it's the same for the US - even if you're NOT a US citizen, but were hired in the US by a US company you pay US taxes, a good friend working for a US MNC spat blood every time he went drinking with his colleague who was hired by the same MNC but in Europe - both Brits, both working in HK, both paying different taxes.

Of course it helps not to have an income ;)
 

Toke

New Member
Jun 4, 2013
1
0
1
Hi Py,

This is my first post on Balipod - hopefully you'll find it helpful. Indonesia, like most other countries, uses a time test (of 183 days) and not citizenship to determine the residential status of an individual for tax purposes (which I’ll refer to as ‘residence’ in the following). So your physical presence in a country, not your citizenship, is what matters for tax purposes. If for some reason you apply the residence tests for two countries and find that you are resident in both, the tax treaty between those countries will resolve this matter using “tie breaker” rules, assigning you residence to only one of the two. Usually, citizenship is not the first consideration to take into account in determining someone’s resident status according to tie breaker rules. For example the Indonesia-US tax treaty uses permanent home as the first consideration in its tie breaker rule.

Where you have an income from Indonesia, the Indonesian Tax Office will (and has the right to by treaty) tax this income regardless of your residence status.

Let’s say you have the capability to move around between countries flexibly, so you can choose where you are considered as a resident for tax purposes. You then need to take into account lots of other factors such as the location of your assets, type of income received, from which country this income is arises, etc. It's complicated, and depends very much on your personal circumstances.

Matsalaeh: Since you are a resident in one country for tax purposes - let says it’s Australia - you need to report and pay tax on all of your income (from Australia and abroad) to the ATO. So you sum up of all your income then apply the Australian tax rate (let say it’s 30%). Assuming that you have already paid tax in Indonesia (on the income you received from Indonesia), then the ATO will allow this to be deducted as a foreign tax credit against your tax due in order to avoid double taxation.
 

ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
2
16
Near Ubud
@py, i sent you Kadek Sumadi cell number, last I heard he is the chairman of Bali tax consultant association hope he can help you out.
 

danissy

New Member
May 15, 2013
8
0
1
Hi Py,

This is my first post on Balipod - hopefully you'll find it helpful. Indonesia, like most other countries, uses a time test (of 183 days) and not citizenship to determine the residential status of an individual for tax purposes (which I’ll refer to as ‘residence’ in the following). So your physical presence in a country, not your citizenship, is what matters for tax purposes. If for some reason you apply the residence tests for two countries and find that you are resident in both, the tax treaty between those countries will resolve this matter using “tie breaker” rules, assigning you residence to only one of the two. Usually, citizenship is not the first consideration to take into account in determining someone’s resident status according to tie breaker rules. For example the Indonesia-US tax treaty uses permanent home as the first consideration in its tie breaker rule.

Where you have an income from Indonesia, the Indonesian Tax Office will (and has the right to by treaty) tax this income regardless of your residence status.

Let’s say you have the capability to move around between countries flexibly, so you can choose where you are considered as a resident for tax purposes. You then need to take into account lots of other factors such as the location of your assets, type of income received, from which country this income is arises, etc. It's complicated, and depends very much on your personal circumstances.

Matsalaeh: Since you are a resident in one country for tax purposes - let says it’s Australia - you need to report and pay tax on all of your income (from Australia and abroad) to the ATO. So you sum up of all your income then apply the Australian tax rate (let say it’s 30%). Assuming that you have already paid tax in Indonesia (on the income you received from Indonesia), then the ATO will allow this to be deducted as a foreign tax credit against your tax due in order to avoid double taxation.

Thanks for the great info people, this is a fantastic site ...

So, have I got this right... with income generating assets in Oz, I'll have to file a tax return here and should I ever stay in Bali for more than 183 days I'll have to file a tax return there... but with $0 income?