Bali Villa Sales

Villas of Bali ™ is the trusted real estate company that offers the most beautiful villas for sale on Bali. Visit our experienced and helpful staff in our office in Seminyak, or search the extensive villa listing online at www.balivillasales.com, providing the most exclusive properties for sale. Villas of Bali ™ stands for quality, integrity and trust. We help you save time and money, while providing you peace of mind of your property related needs. Send us an email to info@villasofbali.com, or call us at +62 878 6249 3526.

  1. Welcome Guest to the new look Balipod. If you are an existing member, just sign up with your usual username/password. Any problems you can post them here
    Dismiss Notice

Land Prices in North Bali

Discussion in 'Owning Property in Bali' started by Mangga, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Mangga

    Mangga New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all,

    Was hoping anyone who knows North Bali might have an opinion on land prices up there – perhaps there are members living in places about Lovina that could share about buying land and living up there. After looking through the forum didn’t find any recent posts on this.

    I’ve spent some time around Lovina and although know it fairly well don’t know much about land prices. There’s a lot of variability between areas such as views, access, proximity to shops and restaurants, condition of roads (especially on the hill side away from the coast), suitability for building. Assume price is just as variable.

    The area above Lovina on Jalan Damai so far is a favourite as it’s cool, has good views and only a few minutes to Lovina central. I’ve heard that flat pieces of land in that area, with good access and views are over 200 juta per are? Thought Kaliasem too dry and steep, Kalibukbuk is built up but close to the coast. The views from the hills above Panji and Anturan are fantastic but takes awhile to get anywhere from there!
     
  2. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,672
    Likes Received:
    56
    PM Gil or RonB as they really know what they are talking about. Ignore PSW as that's pure rubbish.

    Where ever you look at make sure you ask in detail, preferably you future neighbors too, about water supply. That's the major problem up in the north and south. I know of people with lovely villas paying upwards of 1 million+/week for trucked in water.
     
  3. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest


    Mangga

    200jt per are is very high for housing land in and around Lovina. Main road commercial is around that, with Singaraja being a lot higher.
    BTW, Lovina is not actually a suburb/desa. Lovina is an 'area' and consists of 7 suburbs/desa. They are (from west to east) Temukus, Kaliasem, Kalibukbuk, Banyualit, Anturan, Tukad Mungga and Pemaron. Yep, true. You can be in Pemaron and you are still in 'Lovina'. Pemaron is where Imigrasi and the Fire Station are.

    Don't forget, people always thinking their land is worth more than it is. It's a brag thing. And they will want to tell you how valuable theirs is. I have 40are of absolute beachfront and mine is not 200 per are. Wish it was. But it's maybe half that. If there were heady buyers milling around I'd be charging around 170, but nobody is here to buy, relatively speaking. It's 'quiet'.

    Bali is a buyer's market because not many buyers. Lots of buyers usually came from Europe and they aren't coming in droves any more. Things will get worse there before they get better. Prices are lower than their boom-time heights. The AUD just dived to a new recent low a few days ago.

    Jl. Damai is a favourite for many but you must use that 'steep' road each time. However, the traffic along Jl. Damai is constant.

    One thing about waterfront land you may not know. In Jan 2010 a law was brought into effect that you cannot build closer than 100 metres to the high water line. That rule governs any land you might want to buy and build on. Regardless of what people say, if you start to build say 40 metres from the high water mark, eventually you will get busted by the Government. Tear it down, they will say. But, if you buy existing property that was constructed before 2010 you are OK - they cannot make you tear down the building. I have had the Government here several times sitting with a coffee and they agree mine is OK even though maybe only 35-40 metres from high tide. In Dencarik, many are a lot closer. And, go to the Adirama Hotel. It is practically in the water but is safe from that law. The reasoning behind the 100-metre rule is it is considered the Bali coastline is eroding at the rate of one meter per annum. 100 metres. 100 years. It's not my problem. That's it. The Government is looking at putting anti-erosion sea walls up and the coastline here was surveyed in late 2013 for that purpose. If yo go to Kalisada, have a look at what they have done there. It is magnificent anti-erosion control. Kalisada is maybe 12kms west of Seririt.

    For undeveloped land, you must ask to see the original Certificate. Not a photocopy. Or a promise. You want to see the original one. Then go to the Dinas Pendapatan near the Lion King statue in Singaraja and ask to have it validated. I'd be happy to take you there if you want. They are nice and they speak a little English and I speak enough Indonesian to get that through. I can ask Yuli to show us the Government records online and we can get a printout for you. Easy. I did that for my own land last year. Make sure the Land Tax is all paid up. And the names on the database are correct. You'd be surprised at how much fluff gets put across the buyer for the seller to get a sale. Don't trust anyone. See for yourself. Especially don't trust developers, in general. I know there are good quality developers on the website and I do not refer to them.

    Buy existing. You can move in straight away and you see what you are getting. But you MUST see the IMB before agreeing to buy. That's a whole other story. The names must match from the IMB to the certificate. If not then something is wrong, Houston.
     
  4. spicyayam

    spicyayam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,818
    Likes Received:
    35
    There are 2 prices in Bali, the "very hopeful" one and "the bank is going to foreclose the property next week" price. So someone could list it for 200 million per are but if next week they really need money for something then they could sell it for 20 million - usually gambling debts/divorce/medical bills.

    Personally I wouldn't want to live up in the hills like Kaya Putih or surrounding areas. Water as Markit says is a big problem there, although people selling you the property won't mention this. Some of those villas with million dollar views are like sitting ducks for potential break-ins. Tiga Wasa for example has long been considered an area to avoid.

    I think people when they first come here they look for a big villa with pool and garden. I guess that is their Bali "dream". After a couple of years you will more than likely see them trying to sell it. From what I have seen established villas are difficult to sell (except for beach front).

    My preference would be to buy a local house in an established neighborhood and then renovate it to your needs. One of my friends bought 2 old houses and successfully converted it into a hotel. You will have established infrastructure electric/water/internet. It should also be easier to sell at a later time as locals also prefer this kind of living.

    There are lots of these areas in Pemaron/Anturan/Kaliasem/Kalibukbuk that are just off the main road, before you get up into the hills.
     
  5. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest

    Good post, SA.

    You reminded me of a few things I could have added. There is a known village up in the mountains, near to the top. I think it is Cempaka or Cempaga. Something like that. I won't let my driver take me through there at night because the locals take drugs and drink Arak and will stop and rob a car just like that. Maybe it's not that village name but the people from there are 'feared' by the locals on the coast. Stupidly, I have confronted them at my sea wall with a big wooden weapon in my hands and told them to f-off. Darn Hattenitis! You really have to have quick quick access to Polisi when doing that.

    And, yes, the price of land will drop dramatically if those reasons you list are in play. Family illness is a common one. A lot of Balinese families have rice fields (padis) and they get sold off in those kinds of situations. A local friend said he bought a couple of padis because his cousin really needed the money and my friend screwed him on price. That's in the same family!

    I have visited one villa in the hills at Kayuputih and, yes, it's wide open. You can't even keep the dogs in. And you can't keep someone out. Owned by a German with a vineyard in Germany. Here, I have huge stone walls to keep everything under control. And Security. If anyone is in here and I don't know who they are then they are a target.

    Mangga, you did the right thing by asking this Forum. Many people will have invaluable information for you. The more you get, the better for you. Keep at it.

    Re the water, when Markit says check with the future potential neighbours, that is a good idea, so make sure to do that if there are neighbours there. But, there is not one water problem for the whole of North Bali. Far from it. Perhaps in pockets there are issues. I have lived here in the North for more than 3 years and the Government water supply is 99.9% reliable. Plenty of it. Heaps of water available. And the water we get from the ground is always available. You are looking at around Rp200K a month for government water for a normal household with a sw/pool. Just as a rule of thumb, but other may wish to chip their comments in here.
     
    #5 paulseawind, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2016
  6. spicyayam

    spicyayam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,818
    Likes Received:
    35
    I have heard of people selling government land and even land they don't even own, working together with corrupt officials. Make sure to get everything out with your own notary.
     
  7. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest

    Heh heh, SA. Yes, can believe that easily. When first here in 2010 to look at buying, I went to EXOTIQ Real Estate in the Melka Hotel. The guy there set me up with 2 guys to look at land out towards Gerokgak. We eventually got there and wowee the view was absolutely stunning from the beach over to Java and along North Bali's coastline and also back up into the mountains. But the block was only 40 metres deep, damp, and had many many of those land crab holes in it. In fact, the land was soggy.

    I said where is the land boundary. They showed me and I said cannot build here because not at least 100 metres. They said (in a crestfallen way) 'Oh, you know about that, do you'.

    Off we went and I never spoke to them again. But the views from there were really superb.

    A lot of land became less valuable when that 100-metre law came into effect. Only a local would take it and put a small wooden pondok there. And have that million dollar view.
     
  8. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,672
    Likes Received:
    56
    Just demand to make your own copy of the original land certificate and no amount of bamboozlement will stand in your way when you take it to a Notary of your choosing to get due diligence done.
     
  9. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest

    Getting back to the OP's question.

    Land prices are what you can get someone to sell for. Some are distressed vendors (good to find them) and others are holding out for a King's ransom.

    Basically, think like this: Main road 200-250jt per are. Beachfront 100-125jt per are. In between is much cheaper: 35-40jt per are. Whether that is actually 100% accurate or not, it does serve to make a start-point and you can tune those values as you search around and learn more. You have to put the stake in the sand somewhere along the line.

    Singaraja is the most expensive main road land by far.

    It all depends on where you want to live. And your needs and the access road(s). If you have young children that will influence where you live I'd suppose. And daily shopping needs.
    You can get great views from many places in North Bali.

    I'd also research the weather patterns. E.G. too windy all the time? Not breezey enough? Those type of things. You need the breeze to keep things cool. Around 3 knots is really ideal. That's when you can see the leaves moving but not vigorously.

    The ability of the public to access your boundary fences - these kids can jump a fence in half a second and let themselves in.

    Another consideration is if you want to establish gardens. What type of gardens. A fruit orchard? Vege patches. Flower gardens. That kind of thing might play a part in the locations you should be looking at.

    And if you build in the middle of a lot of vacant land then expect many 'friends' to visit. The ular (snakes) for example. There are a lot of snakes on Bali.

    And if you are too remote you will find it harder to get staff probably.
     
    #9 paulseawind, Jan 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2016
  10. Mangga

    Mangga New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the replies. Makes me wonder how much difference in price one would expect within the same area of Lovina. If the things mentioned as being important, water availability, views, proximity to roadways, social life and shopping are important, how much impact do they have on price?

    For example, PSW mentioned a steep road in Kayuputih. For sure, the road in Kayuputih is eventually very steep and must be annoying using it every day. On the other hand the road up until Hotel Damai and for over a kilometre past is not steep and has great ocean views along it. I’ve walked this a few times to the coast and back taking not much more than thirty minutes of easy walking (five minutes on motor bike) – some guys jogged it one morning. Also had the chance to speak with a foreigner who had a villa along there and had put a bore down for water. I did mention that I’ heard water was an issue in the North - he seemed amused by this, although he had to outlay money for the bore was surprised that anyone would think this is an issue compared to what land prices were in the South!

    Am I missing something here? Sure, if an average block of land was 100 juta/are but then another with water, on a flat block, good views and not far from shops/restaurants was, say 120juta/are, then this sounds like people don't know the value of their land!
     
  11. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest

    Mangga, I have some more info for you and hope it's not 'overload'.

    You seem to favour Jl. Damai and you have in fact walked it, ridden it and spoken to a resident. The man with the bore was a clear thinker as the cost of one is relatively cheap (it is so much a metre to dig the hole - maybe Rp150K per metre of depth - not a lot of money) then you add the pump (I paid 2jt 500rts for my new one 2.5 years ago and it's really good, a riser with a one-way valve and connect it to power. Then, depending on your land size, get the right flexible hose. I use 2 * 50 metre hoses coupled with a piece of PVC that the gardener can just pull apart to then only work with 1 * 50 metre hose. I'd be going back to the bore guy later to talk more about his bore and the things I just mentioned. Also, a bore pump will need routine cleaning because it really is sucking water out of a big hole in the dirt and it slowly clogs up with mud. After a while that hole settles down and the pumped water becomes more clear. I would not put it in a sw/pool but I know a developer who does and he says he has zero problems with that. But he is quite savvy with all these things.

    You wrote "water availability, views, proximity to roadways, social life and shopping are important, how much impact do they have on price".
    Yes these things will all impact price to a certain extent or, at least, they should. Water is a biggie. All you have to do is remember the last time you were at home and the mains were off and how did that feel. Views always command prices. You can get valley views up in the hills with probably a water glimpse in the distance. Or you can be right on the beach and get a flat view of the water all the time. There is a place called Mayong out to the south of Seririt. Good access roads. Valley views. And not 100jt per are. Proximity to roadways would be lower on the totem pole because it's not far anyway. It's the quality of the access that I'd be looking at. Whether it's 1km or 2.5km or 4km is really not a biggie, IMO. Social life I wouldn't think would come into the price of the land. But the safety of getting from your social life to your house is important and also for others to get to your house to have social life there. Shopping. This is important. Let's say you set up on Jl Damai with your views and access to Lovina, which is not a bad idea if you want that type of thing. But, you will be pretty much equidistant from the 2 * Hardy's stores in the North. You'd go down Jl. Damai to the traffic light. Turn left to Hardy's in Seririt. Turn right to Hardy's in Singaraja, which also has Carrefours. Pretty much the same distance either way. There are the Lovina markets but boy do they stink. The markets at Banjar (on the way to Seririt) are more nice. Both Seririt and Singaraja sell tools and machinery with Singaraja have a whole lot more choices over Seririt. One thing about 'shopping' in the North is knowing where to get what you want. That was the most difficult part about shopping here. Now I am OK and can speak the language for directions so you go to where you think they have what you want and if they don't they will direct you to where they think has it. Some things are impossible to get here such as the correct size lawnmower blades, believe it or not. I went through the whole hassle. You go to a store, some guy stands there, doesn't want to know you, you say lawn mower blades and nuts/bolts, he thuds some packs on the counter, you measure the length of the blade and how far from the middle of the bolt hole to the attachment end, realise it's all wrong and say wrong size. I even phoned around in the South but they don't want to sell spare parts, they want to sell you a whole new mower for 4jt. The blades I could get were really expensive (700K-plus) so I phoned a mower repair store in Darwin and she said 4 blades for your size incl nuts, washers and bolts, $17.50 - Rp175K. And they are perfect. This is just one of the things you go through here. You need to be a step ahead and you need exact specs because they will just sell you what they have and not give a rats.

    I highly recommend you spend a lot of time looking at as many lands as you can and noticing all the things about them, such as the things you have mentioned. Make a list and tick off the attributes when you see them. Eventually, you will be the expert on all this and then can make a valued decision/purchase. But if you ask can you get government water put on they will probably say yes. So you must ask where in the street is the water already, and go and look at the meter. If no meter(s) then no water so you might be waiting for years for water. The PDAM (water authority) meter needs to be outside and something to do with 6 metres, I was told.

    One other important thing is to develop a set of useful contacts. Whilst they might not know everything you need to know they will have useful information. If you are socialising you will come across people who live here who will have useful info for you. Contacts are invaluable, even after several years.

    If you ever want to come and see my set-up then that's quite OK. I know all about my property now (touch wood) and can explain in detail about things. For example, the electricity supply from PLN. Here, you pay a minimum per month for a normal metered supply whether you use it all or not. If you are running at, say, 7700VAC that attracts a certain minimum cost per month. 11000VAC is more expensive. Once you go over that minimum you start paying more and the price is higher for the KwH. So, if you use 10KwH at the beginning of the month it will be cheaper than the 10KwH at the end of the month, if you go over the minimum. Now, if you're not here all the time, you can get 'PraBayar' which translates to pre-paid. You buy a credit by way of a voucher and you use it. It does not expire every 30 days like some phone credits or pre-paid internet does. It depends on your situation. There's a lot to all this and it depends on how keen you are on 'cost management' as to how fine a point you will put on everything. Sw/pool management. Garden lighting power management. Staff management. The list goes on.

    Best luck. Walk the walk. Talk the talk. Gather information.
     
  12. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,672
    Likes Received:
    56
    The "amused" foreigner wouldn't have been so amused if a couple of those bore hole's had turned up empty or when the one he did hit runs dry.

    8 years ago I was researching land up there and saw some beautiful plots, one for 17juta/are with a young stand of teak wood on it, that had a spectacular view down to the ocean. After spending a week running around up there I found most of the locals to be vaguely mafia-like, the weather way to fecking hot and the ocean tepid and boring.

    Other than that it's great.
     
  13. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest


    haha

    That's why it's good to buy an established property from a distressed vendor. Then you can see what you are getting and can move in straight away, start having kids and making new friends.

    Maybe the bores in the hills can be less than productive (probably are) but the bore guy on Jl. Damai can answer that stuff for his area.

    I have a big set of mountains behind me (maybe 6-7 kms crow-flight away) plus a lot of padis so the water will seep through to me.

    If you have land crabs, you will have bore water because they like damp ground. This lovely old article that is approaching 100 years old now has some good info.

    http://www.fws.gov/news/Historic/NewsReleases/1922/19220509.pdf


    Re the mafia types - I reckon I have met some of them on the beach here.
    They hunt in packs.
     
  14. Mangga

    Mangga New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I’ve been digging around for some info about bores in North Bali.

    Found two bore diggers based in Kalibukbuk and asked about chances of hitting water and yield. One said to visit a kampung in the foothills behind Lovina – turns out there is a large bore there which is being pumped nonstop. I’m not sure where this ran to but it was pumping a lot of water – the pipe must have been a foot in diameter. Seems the issue is not one of hitting water – it’s just that until foreigners started building houses in the hills it was rare (and not needed) for a deep bore to be dug for a single property in North Bali. To be sure, the bore diggers were not talking about bores dug into the shallow water table on the coast. They dig these too, often for one house, a few metres down.

    Getting back to the foreigner that I spoke with, he said he had about 40 are (most people in the North have large blocks). He had built on a flat part of this but the bore was further down the hill. The bore diggers told me this was normal not because this was where the water is, but because it was less digging to reach it!
     
  15. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest


    Just a quick comment about water bores. They are not all the same. OK, you get 'water' but what's in it. Someone once asked does my bore water make the pathways turn brown. I said no. But my neighbour had dirty water to start with. If you only pump it onto the gardens and lawn then it probably doesn't matter as much.
    My dogs are washed using the bore water and it seems fine.

    The quality of the water you will pump out can be affected by what you dug into in the first place. Makes sense. And the age of the bore hole.
    But if you get a good one then it's really handy for things.

    If you buy an established property with a bore, you can test the water for clarity, smell, 'other things' using pool tester kit.
    If you start out with a new bore hole you will not really know until you have created it.

    A muddy water bore will definitely clog your pump more often than a clearer bore water.
     
  16. tintin

    tintin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,226
    Likes Received:
    14
    That's what the people of Flint, Michigan, USA, thought also, until a despicable Governor switched the "well" on them: his action, in April 2013, poisoned almost ten thousand kids with lead!
     
  17. paulseawind

    paulseawind Guest

    Reminds me of the Erin Brokovich case.
    But that won't happen in the Lovina area!
     
  18. geedee

    geedee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    1
    Just discovered as of tomorrow my niece is one of the attorneys working on the Flint water case. Very proud
     
    #18 geedee, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  19. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,672
    Likes Received:
    56
    To say "It's complicated" would be an understatement.

    I presume she's for the citizenry against the state?

    I have to feel a little pity with the government on this because if you wanted to find a more contentious place to have a lead/water problem I really, really couldn't think of one, it being the original home of Micheal Moore of "Stupid White Men" and "Bowling for Columbine".
     
  20. geedee

    geedee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes she is for the citizens.She just found out today that she will be working on it as of tomorrow.
    Her mother is my Sister (always been left leaning)and her Dad is Mexican who used to be involved in the car Unions in Detroit.
    My Sister raised her on her own since 6 years old so she did not too bad getting her through American University system . She got admitted to the bar last year .
    Knowing my sister she will always be fighting for the underdog.
     
Loading...

Share This Page